Jimmy Neutron Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 well, if we're taking japan as the example...didn't their government enact one big spending package after another trying, but failing, to turn things around? Yeah - their central bank also left themselves no wriggle room by setting the discount rate at 0%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 well, if we're taking japan as the example...didn't their government enact one big spending package after another trying, but failing, to turn things around? which is pretty much exactly why I wrote the following above: maybe it could affect GDP a percent or two one way or the other over the next 2 or 3 years. you are significantly underestimating the harm that could be done to the economy if we enter a period of deflation (Edit to add: Of course, if they don't fix the financial system, the economy is pretty well f'd no matter what.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 well, if we're taking japan as the example...didn't their government enact one big spending package after another trying, but failing, to turn things around? There was another factor there that doesn't apply here. Most of their companies adhered to the unwritten rule of "jobs for life". Culturally, companies were unable to shed costs because they were reluctant to let people go, hence the legendary Japanese "window jobs", where you'd sit people at desks looking out the window and give them nothing to do all day, hoping they'd go away. Given they couldn't shed costs, they also couldn't invest since they couldn't build capital. I think that helped in perpetuating the zero growth period. That issue doesn't apply here as companies are shedding costs as fast as they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 There was another factor there that doesn't apply here. Most of their companies adhered to the unwritten rule of "jobs for life". Culturally, companies were unable to shed costs because they were reluctant to let people go, hence the legendary Japanese "window jobs", where you'd sit people at desks looking out the window and give them nothing to do all day, hoping they'd go away. Given they couldn't shed costs, they also couldn't invest since they couldn't build capital. I think that helped in perpetuating the zero growth period. That issue doesn't apply here as companies are shedding costs as fast as they can. There are other cultural issues to consider when comparing the two. While the above is somewhat correct, the Japs are much more likley to have less waste in their businesses. Their kaizen process trims a lot of fat that American companies still lug around long after the layoffs start. They both shed costs, just in differnt ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 There are other cultural issues to consider when comparing the two. While the above is somewhat correct, the Japs are much more likley to have less waste in their businesses. Their kaizen process trims a lot of fat that American companies still lug around long after the layoffs start. They both shed costs, just in differnt ways. You are quite right. I know this from experience. Some American companies find it very difficult to impose processes across the board, maybe for fear of stifling creativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I run my small business mostly on cash and was amazed by how many that need credit to even make payroll. Our economy looks like a house of cards and we make very little in this country anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I run my small business mostly on cash and was amazed by how many that need credit to even make payroll. Our economy looks like a house of cards and we make very little in this country anymore. the fall of rome part duex is happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 This thing is like the last massive hangover you had, the one where you finally realized you're not a college kid any more and you need to throttle back to sensible levels. Again, there is no way we can return to the perpetual standard of living increases we have been used to since the 60s and that's just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 As part of the stimulus and economic recovery package, can we sterilize anyone receiving federal aid that has more than two children? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 As part of the stimulus and economic recovery package, can we sterilize anyone receiving federal aid that has more than two children? Does that include all employees of private enterprise receiving $$$? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Does that include all employees of private enterprise receiving $$$? No, but we should get rid of all subsidies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Senate anounced a deal. Pelosi was told to make some sammiches. link Obama Had To Call An Angry Pelosi CNN's Campbell Brown: No Bias, No Bull reported House Speaker Nancy Pelosi " was enraged for a period of time today," when Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid "announced that the deal was done, but the House Democrats felt like they hadn't agreed to it yet." The President "himself had to get on the phone at one particularly touchy point during the day to talk to...Pelosi." The New York Times reports that after the "last-minute flare-up," Pelosi "said at a news conference that the delay helped House Democrats win some final concessions, including an agreement to let states use some money in a fiscal stabilization fund for school renovations." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 The President "himself had to get on the phone at one particularly touchy point during the day to talk to...Pelosi." Hopefully he sacked up and told her what she needs to be told, the egomaniacal cow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebellab Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I guess I am getting $8000 tax credit for 2009. Closed on my first home Jan 8. The wife says it is all going to savings when we get it a year from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBalla Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 No "STEALFRUMUS" PACKAGE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) No "STEALFRUMUS" PACKAGE When did you become against the Iraqi war? Edited February 13, 2009 by bushwacked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 lobbyists have the stimulus bill (which has bloated to over 1000 pages) before the lawmakers who have to vote on it hope and change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driveby Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 lobbyists have the stimulus bill (which has bloated to over 1000 pages) before the lawmakers who have to vote on it hope and change. this clusterfark just keeps getting better and better. Obama voters- do you prefer the term sucker or fool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 No "STEALFRUMUS" PACKAGE When did you become against the Iraqi war? when he received the new memo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 instead of stimulus pkg.....just heard a great idea....gov't gives every body a 3000 gift card and they must spend the money within 90 days....that's get all gov'ts. out of the loop and provides for instant stimulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) change.gov: End the Practice of Writing Legislation Behind Closed Doors: As president, Barack Obama will restore the American people's trust in their government by making government more open and transparent. Obama will work to reform congressional rules to require all legislative sessions, including committee mark-ups and conference committees, to be conducted in public. By making these practices public, the American people will be able to hold their leaders accountable for wasteful spending and lawmakers won't be able to slip favors for lobbyists into bills at the last minute. they just passed a bill -- the largest spending bill congress has ever passed -- written behind closed doors with no republicans present, which the lobbyists had before our lawmakers did. I really didn't think obama would be this bad, this fast. Edited February 13, 2009 by Azazello1313 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 change.gov: they just passed a bill -- the largest spending bill congress has ever passed -- written behind closed doors with no republicans present, which the lobbyists had before our lawmakers did. I really didn't think obama would be this bad, this fast. the fleecing of amerika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 change.gov: they just passed a bill -- the largest spending bill congress has ever passed -- written behind closed doors with no republicans present, which the lobbyists had before our lawmakers did. I really didn't think obama would be this bad, this fast. As h8tank would say - Hopenchange! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 change.gov: they just passed a bill -- the largest spending bill congress has ever passed -- written behind closed doors with no republicans present, which the lobbyists had before our lawmakers did. I really didn't think obama would be this bad, this fast. i still don't know why obama is pushing this so hard. why wouldn't he just follow through on his campaign promises of transparency? he would win over the american people, bring on some republicans, and make it easy for the dems to follow since the masses are pleased ... instead, we get a spending plan rammed through with urgency with a shocking lack of transparency. and, most experts are questioning the plan in terms of how effective it will be at even making a dent in our current situation. a bad plan pushed through with no transparency, the biggest spending plan in history, all served up in the first month in office. no sense. the only thing you can come back to is obama being a pawn for his party, a pawn for politics as usual, which is what he so vehemently campaigned against, which helped him to get elected. i thought he would at least try to follow through on the cornerstone of his campaign ... sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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