Skippy Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I coach a 12 and under softball team that my daughter plays on. We don't have many problems even though we are a travel team as it seems for the most part all teams try to play pretty honest games. One team that we face that we are tied with in standings has a coach that tells his girls "NO" when the ball is coming in if he does not think they should swing at a pitch. This really does make a big difference and even more so it gets my girls mad and I will admit that even I get pissed. The umpire in our most recent game said that it is really unethical but that there is no rule so he will not call it. We ended up losing that game 16-15 and I was going to file a protest, (I wish I would have), but I just want to hear from any of you little league parents or coaches and what your opinion is on this? If we face them in a playoff game, (sure looks like we will), would it be okay for me to have someone stand there and yell no at thier girls on the good pitches? I honestly would never do this but I hate that they do what they do. I never tell my girls not to swing when I am at third base but I might when we play this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) You absolutely do not under any circumstances dip to that level. He is trying to play for the kids. Let them learn on their own. They will thank you for it. What a sad, sad man.. Sad to say, but if you are a somewhat new coach, you haven't seen anything yet. I can be a bit of grizzled prick when I'm coaching so at some point I would bellow out "wow, he doesn't even trust his kids enough to let them play themselves", or "do you want to go up there and swing for them too?" Plenty loud enough where he can hear it, and to where the crowd kind of chuckles at his expense. This guy obviously thinks he is really smart, so use it against him, but for the sake of the kids, don't go down to his level. Teach them to do things the right way. Most of all....kick their butts in the playoffs!! Edited June 27, 2009 by Seahawks21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) So what happens if he yells 'NO' and they swing anyways? I coach a majors level team that my daughter is on (14-17), and this sounds very unethical to me. To the point where if I'm a parent of a girl on the other team, I think I'd have to stand up and say "hey, let my daughter swing at whatever the hell she wants to swing at... that's how she learns". But what I would probably do... if it really makes the girls on YOUR team angry, have them shout 'NO' from the dugout at the opposing players on every pitch. That'll learn 'em. ETA: the girls that aren't on the field of course... Edited June 27, 2009 by Piranha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I coach a 12 and under softball team that my daughter plays on. We don't have many problems even though we are a travel team as it seems for the most part all teams try to play pretty honest games. One team that we face that we are tied with in standings has a coach that tells his girls "NO" when the ball is coming in if he does not think they should swing at a pitch. This really does make a big difference and even more so it gets my girls mad and I will admit that even I get pissed. The umpire in our most recent game said that it is really unethical but that there is no rule so he will not call it. We ended up losing that game 16-15 and I was going to file a protest, (I wish I would have), but I just want to hear from any of you little league parents or coaches and what your opinion is on this? If we face them in a playoff game, (sure looks like we will), would it be okay for me to have someone stand there and yell no at thier girls on the good pitches? I honestly would never do this but I hate that they do what they do. I never tell my girls not to swing when I am at third base but I might when we play this team. I manage my daughter's Little League softball team and am right now managing our league's 9-10 All-Star team. I'm not sure I understand Skip. Is he yelling no when the pitch is actually on the way in or is he giving the take sign before the ball is pitched? I'm big on letting the girls swing the bat. That said, if we're behind and need baserunners or if a younger girl is simply overmatched by an older pitcher I will use the take sign in certain situations. I honestly don't know how a coach could have time to see whether a pitch is a strike or not and yell for a girl not to swing after it's been delivered. Our girls and most of the ones we play against throw smoke. As far as having one of your parents yell "no" when their girls are batting...no way IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 Sad to say, but if you are a somewhat new coach, you haven't seen anything yet. I know what you are saying. I am pretty new to the girls end of things. Third year helping but only the first year at the manager. I have coached boys for nearly ten years but I am a newbie to the girls. I did yell some of those comments at him during our game but it didn't seem to matter. We were the visiting team at a neighborhood that has no love for us so the crowd didn't seem to mind. My team’s parents were all complaining to me after the game. One of my team parents that keep my scorebook for me told me that the same coach called me a dick during the game. It happened on a play when we were at the tenth batter. Tenth batter ends the inning, (in case you didn't know). Since it is the tenth batter, my batter is instructed to hit the ball no matter what and my girls are instructed to run to home plate no matter what. Don't stop running. He heard me remind the girl that was on second, (she is a girl that you need to remind everything to), and when my batter hit the ball and I kept urging my girls to keep running and got their girls to start tossing the ball around he got pissed. He complained to the ump but I was out of range to hear nor did I care but that is when my guy keeping the score told me that he called me a dick when arguing with the umpire. I like the idea of having my girls shout "no" at all the pitches. The next time we face them is heating up to be a major grudge match. They knocked us out of the playoffs last year and this year we split our games. First game we won 18-18 and the most recent game they beat us 16-15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Hit him with the bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 So what happens if he yells 'NO' and they swing anyways? They don't swing. One thing I can say for this clown is that his girls do listen to him pretty well. They are very good on the bases as the really do pay great attention to the coaches. My girls pay pretty good attention but I have a few that are out in sea world all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I always tell the girls, it's better to strike out swinging, then standing there. I would think the ump would catch on to this maybe and widen the strike zone a bit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 I manage my daughter's Little League softball team and am right now managing our league's 9-10 All-Star team. I'm not sure I understand Skip.Is he yelling no when the pitch is actually on the way in or is he giving the take sign before the ball is pitched? I'm big on letting the girls swing the bat. That said, if we're behind and need baserunners or if a younger girl is simply overmatched by an older pitcher I will use the take sign in certain situations. I honestly don't know how a coach could have time to see whether a pitch is a strike or not and yell for a girl not to swing after it's been delivered. Our girls and most of the ones we play against throw smoke. As far as having one of your parents yell "no" when their girls are batting...no way IMO. First understand that this is a slow pitch team. With our fast pitch team you would not be able to yell no. He yells no when a ball is to flat, to high, when he can tell the ball will be deep, or short. When you watch slow pitch it is pretty easy to tell when it is an obvious no. Slow pitch is pretty hard to throw strikes. My daughter pitches both slow and fast and she finds fast a lot easier to throw strikes. I do too. I would have zero problem telling the girl to take a pitch. That is not at all what I am talking about up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j2v Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I always tell the girls, it's better to strike out swinging, then standing there. +1000 I have a daughter who plays 10U softball and a son who is in his first year of kid-pitch little league (it's been coach-pitch up to this point). Both of them I have told repeatedly that I don't care if you strike out swinging, but if you stand there and watch strikes go by it's no good for anybody. I almost feel sorry for coaches that are so caught up in winning at this young age that they stoop to stuff like that. Those girls won't learn a thing and while it seems like they listen to their coach they're probably terrified of screwing up and are having no fun. That's not what organized ball at this age should be about. While in general I'd be opposed to sinking to this clown's level, the idea of having your girls yell strikes me as a good one. In fact, I'd mix it up; have them yell "yes" sometimes, "no" sometimes, toss in a "maybe" every once in a while... have some fun with it. Good luck! 2V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 I always tell the girls, it's better to strike out swinging, then standing there. I would think the ump would catch on to this maybe and widen the strike zone a bit... I am right there with you so far as swinging goes. I have a girl that is a strike out before she gets to the plate. I never say anthing to her if she is swinging but when she stands there watching the ball I have to tell her about it. I have spent this week teaching this girl to bunt as it seems the only way that she will get a bat on the ball. Now last night she started to put the bat out for a bunt and took a pretty nice 1/4 swing that made contact. They got her at first but she did move the girl from second to third so I was very happy with what she did. As for the ump, he was spineless in my opinion. Once this guy blew up at the ump over our tenth batter play, the ump seemed to lean thier way. It was crazy as we have had this ump in a least five games and up until that game he would have been my choice as the best ump of the year. He folded when that guy yelled at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) While in general I'd be opposed to sinking to this clown's level, the idea of having your girls yell strikes me as a good one. In fact, I'd mix it up; have them yell "yes" sometimes, "no" sometimes, toss in a "maybe" every once in a while... have some fun with it. Good luck! 2V I think this is right about where my head is right now. They have rules against our catchers talking to the batter but nothing about the rest of the team yelling at them. Maybe I need to take them back to my little league days and teach them the "swing batter batter swing" chant. Edited June 27, 2009 by Skippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slambo Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Maybe I need to take them back to my little league days and teach them the "swing batter batter swing" chant. Thats exactly what I was thinking when I first started reading this thread. More like....." hey batter batter, hey batter batter SWING" Entire infield in unison. It worked for the little league teams I played on Always seemed to rattle the less confident players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 First game we won 18-18 This is really hard to do. Kudos on winning a tie game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 While in general I'd be opposed to sinking to this clown's level, the idea of having your girls yell strikes me as a good one. In fact, I'd mix it up; have them yell "yes" sometimes, "no" sometimes, toss in a "maybe" every once in a while... have some fun with it. Good luck! 2V I'm liking this idea. maybe come up with a fun little chant to ridicule them. getting coaches and/or parents involved in the shouting strikes me as a poor idea. or, if you end up with a different ump....maybe talk to him before the game, mention what happened in the last game and how it struck you as poor sportsmanship, ask what his take is on it, and if maybe he would talk to the coach before the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 This is really hard to do. Kudos on winning a tie game. That should have read 18 to 14. We are a pretty closely matched couple of teams. I just hate to see the difference being something that I consider unsportsman like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REZ Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 check to make sure you can say swing. Couple leagues my kids played in you couldn't say that. You could do the hey batter, batter but not swing. Didn't make much sense to me. And in the younger divisions we've had the 10 batter rule and all the teams just told their kids keep running. Don't know why a team wouldn't have their players do that. We had that rule 1 year and then switched to a maximum runs per inning rule as we realized the 10 batter rule just made things insane on that last batter. I really like the idea of a chant with a yes, no and maybe mixed in. Girls love to do those chants and it would be a fun way of sticking it to the other coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boat_hacked Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 How about having a parent or one of your player's siblings close by said coach with an air horn. Everytime your pitcher lets loose give a little beep on the horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 First understand that this is a slow pitch team. With our fast pitch team you would not be able to yell no. My fault. I did'nt realize that girls played slowpitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicster Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Coached boys for 12 years and now girls for my 4th now. And believe me, if this is the worst thing that has gotten under your skin, you have been extremely lucky. I think for the most part people try to do the right things, but there are a few that just can't seperate what is good for the kids and and what isn't. While there is nothing against the rules on what he is doing, it is certainly unethical. Heck, I'm not even a big fan of chanting in general, just don't really see where it helps. Some believe that it gets the kids involved in the game, but from what I have seen, it distracts the fielders while they do the chant and don't focus on what play they should be making if they get the ball. I've had coaches cancel a game in boys league where there is a limit on innings for pitchers, and bring his team over to watch our team play so that he could save his ace for us later in the week. We stil won, but it's the fact that he would drive his entire team 25 miles to our town to watch our game when he was supposed to be playing his game. I made sure to tell him that I appreciate large crowds and hope he could make all of our games this season, plus maybe he could learn a thing or two... I truly believe that better fundamentals and better overall coaching BEFORE the game prepares the girls to play DURING the game. That's the time to sit back and enjoy seeing the girls "get it" and apply it to the field. That is where my joy comes from. I hope you guys take it to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 Vicster - I love that post and it is pretty much spot on with how we approach things. Our team has been scouted by the two teams this year that are in the thick of things. That sort of made me feel like we are doing something right. My girls do not have the same level of talent as a few teams so we really do have to work at the basics. Our team does not have try outs but rather you sign up and I get you. I make the best out of what I get. The other teams do not operate that way as you have to make the travel teams. The only requirement to make our travel team is that you have to have played softball at least one season in the past yet I have two that did not. I still teach very basic stuff like running through first base. What it means to be forced or not forced. Tagging up has been a real issue with half of my team. Don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy doing this. I didn't think I would and I only took the spot because no one else wanted it but I have told my girls already that if all the eleven year olds are coming back then I will coach them again next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrograde assault Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I wouldn't play for a coach like that and I'm pretty sure my dad would have had a major problem with a coach like that. Never been involved with girls softball but as a player, and I played baseball a long damn time, no way I put up with that crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Apparently, I'm in the minority, but I wouldn't say anything to the coach and I wouldn't allow my players to yell anything out. I would also instruct the parents on my team that they are not to yell anything. I've been coaching soccer, boys and girls, at all levels, since the late 1980's. You are going to run into all kinds of ass holes the longer you coach. For me, coaching kids is more than teaching the game, strategy, skills, tactics, etc. A youth coach teaches the kids how to win and how to accept losing. A youth coach teaches the kids about sportsmanship, playing to their best, and thinking on their own. The players on your team look to you to figure out how to conduct themselves. Some of these kids may grow up and become coaches themselves. Here is how I would handle it: I'd tell my team that I don't agree with the ass hole's method of coaching and that I would never use that method because I trust them. We work hard in practice and because of that, they are ready at game time. Some of the girls might say that what the other coach is doing is not fair and I would agree with them. Specifically, I would say, "You're right--What he's doing is not fair. So you know what you have to do? Try harder!" [if none of my players said that the other coach's technique was unfair, I would volunteer that I thought it was unfair. Then I'd the same question and provide the same answer. I purposely set up situations in practice from time to time that are unfair. By the end of the season, my players are telling each other that when the game/situation/teams are unfair in practice to try harder. When we run into problems during a game--whether it's a loud mouth coach, a poor referee, a player who talks trash, etc--the kids know that there is one solution--Try Harder. I'd rather my players learn that lesson from me than any indication that it's acceptable to equate themselves with an ass hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 This is my third year helping with my (now 12 years old) daughter's team. There are all shapes and sizes of sad coaches and parents. I need to concentrate on what OUR team is doing, not the other team. Let him be a loser and don't stoop to that level. It is just a game, not a life and death situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 I think I lean toward letting my girls chat it up during the game. I don't think that I am going to have anyone yelling yes or no but rather let them get into the "hey batter batter swing" mode. We don't do that and we don't even let our team taunt the other team ever. Early in the year our short stop, clearly our very best fielder, did some taunting to a team that we were beating by 10 plus runs. I told her about it and benched her. My team does not taunting ever but we do play against a few that do. I do let them chant up our own team but never anything toward the other team. At the umpire meeting that they have every week this topic was brought up. They told me at today’s game that they plan to "suggest" to that team that they should not instruct the girls pitch by pitch when to swing and not swing after the ball has been pitched. He said that they will not rule against them but that they have decided to "suggest". The topic did not come up because of us, by the way. It was another team that had some sort of shouting match with the coaches and some parents got way to into the shouting. Todays game has put us on a major collusion course to face the "NO" team in what should be our second playoff game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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