This is why we can't ban guns...

[driveby]

but if you keep a gun in your drawer and another under the bed

this can happen

[Perchoutofwater]

listen to reason

 

I've heard/seen this clip before. Its a sad story, and there are crazy people out there, but the odds of getting killed in a situation like the one described here are no greater than being involved in any other sort of tragic accident, and IMO don't justify a wholesale admission of guns into the public arena.

 

I don;t buy the argument that if this lady had had a gun she would have saved any more lives than might have been saved otherwise. The shooter in Texas was on an Army base. How many people were killed despite the presence of armed MP's?

 

Just because carrying a gun makes you feel more secure doesn't mean you in fact are more secure, or that any others around you are more secure. I honestly believe that there are enough incompetents/irresponsibles out there that granting them the unfettered right to open/concealed carry makes the public arena significantly less safe. Even in the face of being able to shoot/disarm an attacker like the one described in this clip, the instances of irresponsibility and accident will outnumber the opportunity for and lives saved by heroics.

 

Own as many guns as you like, that's your constitutionally protected right. Just keep them at home.

 

You are wrong about Fort Hood. There were no MPs in the building, and federal law prohibits soldiers from carrying on base unless it is part of a training exercise. So actually the shooter knew for a fact that he would be unopposed.

 

Here are some intresting facts about what happened at Ford Hood along with statistics showing that states with less restrictive gun control have less crime and the crime that they have is less severe.

[DMD]

As for being uncomfortable with "more guns out in the public" by concealed carry licenses, there are already hundred of thousands - probably millions - of people who already have it and already carry. You never hear anything about them shooting the wrong person or being the unsafe aspect of some situation. In Florida where they had issued 221,000 permits over a seven year period they tracked and of those only 18 had any crimes committed and none were violent. I have never heard of anyone with a permit to carry being in a situation where they killed the wrong person. Perhaps it has happened given the huge population to draw from but it is such a small number as to be insignificant.

 

As for being uncomfortable with your kids at a house that has guns, you should always assume that is true anyway and teach your kids to never ever play with guns or ever hold them. Assume all guns are real and that they are all loaded. That is just a part of parenting. It is when kids are not taught about guns that they are more attracted to them and the chance of something bad happening greatly increases. It is incumbent on the homeowner with guns and kids to have all firearms secured and safe but as a parent you have to assume that somewhere down the line your kid is going to have to make good decisions and needs to be instructed in advance.

 

Making streets safer with less guns? Not sure how that works since only those with bad intentions then have them and are free to pursue whatever criminal intent they have without worry about being stopped. All those concealed licenses out there already have been no problem and there are at least hundred of thousands if not millions already. I'd admit not being to understand why people would be concerned with responsible, legal gun owners carrying when they have never been a problem. All those "bad guys" out there with guns who will never get a license is an exponentially bigger issue.

 

.... I bet many of these accidental shooters were kids that were taught how to use a weapon, then tried to show off their knowledge when daddy wasn't home.

 

I would personally consider this as 100% wrong and speculation based on a fear of guns. I know a great deal of fathers and sons who shoot and the more a child understands guns and how to use them, by far they are less likely to want to show a friend. I wouild believe the chance is greater the more guns are not discussed or taught.

 

Shouln't I have the right to know if my next door neighbor has weapons? Shouldn't I have the right to know if my kids might be playing in another home where those weapons aren't secure? if I ask that parent (as Nick suggested), do you really think that parent is going to be forthcoming if indeed he doesn't keep them secured?

 

As I mentioned - you better assume that is always the case and arm your kid with the ability to make good decisions because you cannot protect them from a world that is irresponsible in a million ways even worse. I have to believe that most states if not all have laws regarding access to loaded guns in a house with minor children anyway. In my entire life, I have known of only one instance of a child discharging a gun accidentally and it was in a house where there were no guns. The grandfather was visiting and had a handgun and the wife was scared of it and made him hide the gun. Of course that led to the boy showing his friend the gun since neither had ever seen one and they could not figure out if it was real or not. Thankfully, they onlyshot a hole in the roof. But neither had been taught anything about firearms. It is irresponsible to have any guns in access of children and it is equally as irresponsible not to teach kids how to act around guns if they do see them. You cannot control their world but you can try to influence their ability to make decisions. For all you know, they could find a gun walking home one day. It is hardly "put a sign in their yard and we're all safe".

[Avernus]

this can happen

 

this is an instance of what happens when stupid people share the same bed...

[Perchoutofwater]

For what is it worth, I don't have a problem with my neighbors knowing I have a gun. Most of them know I have a concealed carry permit. I keep my gun either holstered on my hip (I will put it under the seat of the car if I go into a building which prohibits carrying) or in my gun safe. I unlock my gun safe every night when I get ready for bed an put my sidearm in it . It remains unlocked until I get up in the morning and retrieve my sidearm. My safe is in a closet right off or my bedroom, and about four feet from my side of the bed, so any body would have come right by me to get to it. Both of my kids know that if they so much as touch my safe without permission is it a spanking no questions asked.

 

Given that statistics show that crime rates and the severity of crime drops significantly in states that have conceal care laws, the argument that guns make the populace unsafe is unfounded and rooted in irrational fear. If you take a look at almost any mass casualty shooting, you will find that almost without exception (I'm not aware of a single exception) they occur in areas where carrying a gun is restricted, included what happened at Fort Hood.

[billay]

You are wrong about Fort Hood. There were no MPs in the building, and federal law prohibits soldiers from carrying on base unless it is part of a training exercise. So actually the shooter knew for a fact that he would be unopposed.

 

Here are some intresting facts about what happened at Ford Hood along with statistics showing that states with less restrictive gun control have less crime and the crime that they have is less severe.

Not to divert the direction of this thread, but there were MP's at Fort Hood, and they were armed. I'm not making any statements as to their proximity to the shootings at the time they started, but I thought the example relevant on 2 points:

1. 13 people were killed at fort hood. The person who ended up shooting Hasan was a civilian police officer. The "relative proximity" of guns did not save those 13 people, and in a situation where someone had decided to kill any many people as they can (the two examples now present in this thread) the presence of another, or multiple firearms is unlikely to save any more lives than might be saved otherwise.

2. Any person who has their mind made up to take the lives of others will not be dissuaded by the presence of guns.

 

A few other points

- I don't consider "Absence of crime" and "safety" to be synonymous.

- The "fear" of gun accidents is no more illogical than the fear of being caught up in a shooting such as the ones discussed in this thread. Avernus used this woman's testimony as a rationale for defending himself with a firearm. I think it perfectly logical in my argument that I am no safer in such a situation if John Q. Public next to me is carrying a weapon. Given that lack of benefit in the situation used to justify the guns presence (in this particular thread) then I am certainly not better of at all other times.

Edited April 15, 2010 by billay

[evil_gop_liars]

Did I miss something? Are we even remotely close to "banning" guns?

 

 

I'm wondering the same thing. I thought they were after our fishing poles.

[Furd]

there has been strong movement over the years in the banning of guns....

 

This isn't true, certainly within the last 20 years or so.

 

Its easier than ever to get a license to carry a concealed handgun in the Untied States. The Supreme Court's decision in Heller determined that Washington D.C.s law that prohibited the possession of handguns was unconstitutional, which led to many cities across the contry to repeal similar laws. The Supreme Court is going to review Chicago's refusal to allow registration of handguns (which essentially makes the possession of a handgun in Chicago illegal.)

[Avernus]

This isn't true, certainly within the last 20 years or so.

 

Its easier than ever to get a license to carry a concealed handgun in the Untied States. The Supreme Court's decision in Heller determined that Washington D.C.s law that prohibited the possession of handguns was unconstitutional, which led to many cities across the contry to repeal similar laws. The Supreme Court is going to review Chicago's refusal to allow registration of handguns (which essentially makes the possession of a handgun in Chicago illegal.)

 

 

exactly, but more people are speaking up against it than ever....

[i_am_the_swammi]

Found this article at the top of the page on a google search....

 

 

Gun Accidents Kill 500 Kids a Year

Friday, August 1, 2008

Advice every parent needs to hear about firearm safety.

 

This week, a toddler fatally shot himself after finding a gun in his parent's car. According to Jackson, Miss., authorities, the 3-year-old was sitting in the car at a gas station when he found the gun in the front seat and shot himself in the face. Police questioned the boy's parents, but no charges have been filed.

 

But these aren't freak accidents. More than 500 children die annually from accidental gunshots. Some shoot themselves, while others kill friends or siblings after discovering a gun.

 

Here are more scary stats: Americans own 200 million firearms, and 35 percent of homes contain at least one gun. Last year, a study conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found more than 1.7 million children live in homes with loaded and unlocked guns.

 

And if you do own a gun and think your kid won't get to it, listen to this: A recent study published in the Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine found 39 percent of kids knew where their parent's guns were stored, while 22 percent said they had handled the weapons despite adult's warnings to stay away. What's more, age was not a factor in whether children had played with the guns -- 5-year-olds were just as likely to report doing so as 14-year-olds.

 

Here are just a few heartbreaking cases:

 

-On July 19, 4-year-old Dylan Jackson shot himself to death after finding a loaded gun at a friend's home during a birthday party.

 

- A 3-year-old Southeast Washington boy shot himself in the foot and grazed his hand while playing with his father's gun -- which he found lying on the floor.

 

- A 2-year-old Tampa boy shot himself in the chest with a loaded 9 mm he found in his parent's couch while playing.

 

- Last February, a 13-year-old boy shot himself with a semiautomatic handgun in the home of his guardian, a Maryland police officer.

 

- The 10-year-old son of a New York City police officer died after shooting himself in the face with his father's loaded revolver. The boy found the weapon on a shelf in the basement while looking for a ball his mom had hidden.

 

Is there a way to stop these senseless deaths?

 

The NRA (National Rifle Association) sponsors classes that teach children if they find a gun to leave the area and inform an adult, but studies show kids who take these classes are no less likely to play with guns than kids who don't attend class.

 

"The biggest mistake parents make is assuming their child doesn't know where the gun in the house is," says Matthew Miller, associate director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center. "Kids are smart and if they know there's a firearm in the house, they'll probably figure out a way to get to it."

 

"We can't expect children to act like adults," he adds. "Parents monitor their kid's diet, curfew, and social life but when it comes to guns, parents often just say, 'Respect the gun, it's off limits' or 'Guns are dangerous.' That type of parenting just doesn't work."

 

So should parents not tell kids if there's a gun in the home? "First, you have to weigh whether or not you really need a weapon," says Miller. "Do the benefits outweigh the risks? If the answer is yes, you must take safety precautions."

 

"Be honest with your children," says Miller. "Tell them there is a firearm in the home but explicitly explain that guns are fatal, no matter how children handle them. Don't keep the gun loaded and store the ammunition in a locked safe and carry the key with you at all times. Also, don't hide the combination and don't give it an obvious numerical password."

 

"The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends pediatricians ask parents about guns in their home in an effort called 'Anticipatory Guidance' which attempts to keep children safe in cars, on bikes, and around swimming pools," says Miller. "It's rare that doctors initiate this conversation, but they should."

 

"Also, ask the parents of your children's friends if they keep guns at home and if kids will be playing where they're stored," added Miller. "Don't worry about appearing intrusive. It's better to seem pushy and be safe."

 

Do you think parents should keep guns in their home with children present?

 

 

Read more: http://www.momlogic.com/2008/08/protect_yo...p#ixzz0lBsPJ2YF

[gbpfan1231]

I don't have a phobia about guns. In fact, if you even read my post, I said I have no problem with guns as long as they are registered and kept locked and secure.

 

But your point borders on ludicrus. I can teach my kids fine, thank you very much. What i can't protect them from is another parent that hasn't taught their own kids not to mess with with things. Or potentially,worse, has trained their kid how to use the gun, and overestimated their kid's maturity in how to act around guns when a parent is not present. We have all seen too many accidents of kids shooting other kids accidentally. I bet many of these accidental shooters were kids that were taught how to use a weapon, then tried to show off their knowledge when daddy wasn't home.

 

Shouln't I have the right to know if my next door neighbor has weapons? Shouldn't I have the right to know if my kids might be playing in another home where those weapons aren't secure? if I ask that parent (as Nick suggested), do you really think that parent is going to be forthcoming if indeed he doesn't keep them secured?

 

Edit: Hypothetical: suppose cocaine was legal. Would you want your child around it, even if you taught them never to use it?

What else do you want to know about my private life? Do you want to know every time I use a deep fat fryer so your kid isn't around in case it would spill and burn him? Do you want to know if I have a dog and if my dog has ever bitten anyone? Do you want to know if I have sharp knives?

 

If you want to know ask - the fact you want people to make it known to the general public is insane. JMHO.

[gbpfan1231]

Found this article at the top of the page on a google search....

 

 

Gun Accidents Kill 500 Kids a Year

Friday, August 1, 2008

Advice every parent needs to hear about firearm safety.

 

This week, a toddler fatally shot himself after finding a gun in his parent's car. According to Jackson, Miss., authorities, the 3-year-old was sitting in the car at a gas station when he found the gun in the front seat and shot himself in the face. Police questioned the boy's parents, but no charges have been filed.

 

But these aren't freak accidents. More than 500 children die annually from accidental gunshots. Some shoot themselves, while others kill friends or siblings after discovering a gun.

 

Here are more scary stats: Americans own 200 million firearms, and 35 percent of homes contain at least one gun. Last year, a study conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found more than 1.7 million children live in homes with loaded and unlocked guns.

 

And if you do own a gun and think your kid won't get to it, listen to this: A recent study published in the Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine found 39 percent of kids knew where their parent's guns were stored, while 22 percent said they had handled the weapons despite adult's warnings to stay away. What's more, age was not a factor in whether children had played with the guns -- 5-year-olds were just as likely to report doing so as 14-year-olds.

 

Here are just a few heartbreaking cases:

 

-On July 19, 4-year-old Dylan Jackson shot himself to death after finding a loaded gun at a friend's home during a birthday party.

 

- A 3-year-old Southeast Washington boy shot himself in the foot and grazed his hand while playing with his father's gun -- which he found lying on the floor.

 

- A 2-year-old Tampa boy shot himself in the chest with a loaded 9 mm he found in his parent's couch while playing.

 

- Last February, a 13-year-old boy shot himself with a semiautomatic handgun in the home of his guardian, a Maryland police officer.

 

- The 10-year-old son of a New York City police officer died after shooting himself in the face with his father's loaded revolver. The boy found the weapon on a shelf in the basement while looking for a ball his mom had hidden.

 

Is there a way to stop these senseless deaths?

 

The NRA (National Rifle Association) sponsors classes that teach children if they find a gun to leave the area and inform an adult, but studies show kids who take these classes are no less likely to play with guns than kids who don't attend class.

 

"The biggest mistake parents make is assuming their child doesn't know where the gun in the house is," says Matthew Miller, associate director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center. "Kids are smart and if they know there's a firearm in the house, they'll probably figure out a way to get to it."

 

"We can't expect children to act like adults," he adds. "Parents monitor their kid's diet, curfew, and social life but when it comes to guns, parents often just say, 'Respect the gun, it's off limits' or 'Guns are dangerous.' That type of parenting just doesn't work."

 

So should parents not tell kids if there's a gun in the home? "First, you have to weigh whether or not you really need a weapon," says Miller. "Do the benefits outweigh the risks? If the answer is yes, you must take safety precautions."

 

"Be honest with your children," says Miller. "Tell them there is a firearm in the home but explicitly explain that guns are fatal, no matter how children handle them. Don't keep the gun loaded and store the ammunition in a locked safe and carry the key with you at all times. Also, don't hide the combination and don't give it an obvious numerical password."

 

"The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends pediatricians ask parents about guns in their home in an effort called 'Anticipatory Guidance' which attempts to keep children safe in cars, on bikes, and around swimming pools," says Miller. "It's rare that doctors initiate this conversation, but they should."

 

"Also, ask the parents of your children's friends if they keep guns at home and if kids will be playing where they're stored," added Miller. "Don't worry about appearing intrusive. It's better to seem pushy and be safe."

 

Do you think parents should keep guns in their home with children present?

 

 

Read more: http://www.momlogic.com/2008/08/protect_yo...p#ixzz0lBsPJ2YF

http://www.och.umd.edu/pdf/Fire%20Safety%2...in%20houses.pdf

 

not sure if that link works? never posted a link before.

 

It says in the article that children start over 18,900 house fires every year. Would you like me to show a detailed map of every place I have matches so your children know where to play at my house?

[Perchoutofwater]

Leading Causes of Death - Kids

 

 

Leading causes of death in the United States - kids

 

The top two causes, Unintentional injury (accidents), Malignant Neoplasms (cancer), and Congenital Anomalies (abnormality at birth) accounted for more than half (63.35 percent) of all deaths among kids (ages 5 through 9) in 2002. Note that automobile accident is the number one cause of death in this age group, accounting for about 21%.

Top 20 Causes of Death - Kids (5 - 9)

 

Rank Cause of Death Total Deaths No of Deaths Percent

All Deaths 3018 3018 100.00%

1 Unintentional Injury 1176 38.97%

* Mohor Vehicle Traffic 621 20.58%

* Drowning 159 5.27%

* Fire/burn 153 5.07%

* Suffocation 40 1.33%

* Other Land Transport 33 1.09%

* Pedestrian, Other 27 0.89%

* Struck by or Against 20 0.66%

* Unspecified 20 0.66%

* Fall 18 0.60%

* Other Spec., classifiable 17 0.56%

* Poisoning 15 0.50%

* Firearm 14 0.46%

* Other Transport 12 0.40%

* Other Spec., NEC 8 0.27%

* Natural/ Environment 7 0.23%

* Machinery 6 0.20%

* Pedal cyclist, Other 4 0.13%

* Cut/pierce 2 0.07%

2 Malignant Neoplasms 537 17.79%

3 Congenital Anomalies 199 6.59%

4 Homicide 140 4.64%

5 Heart Disease 92 3.05%

6 Benign Neoplasms 44 1.46%

7 Septicemia 42 1.39%

8 Chronic Respiratory Disease 41 1.36%

9 Influenza & Pneumonia 38 1.26%

10 Cerebrovascular 33 1.09%

11 Anemias 29 0.96%

12 Perinatal Period 15 0.50%

13 Meningitis 10 0.33%

14 Nephritis 9 0.30%

15 Acute Bronchititis 7 0.23%

16 Pneumonitis 7 0.23%

17 Meningococcal Infection 6 0.20%

18 Diabetes Mellitus 5 0.17%

19 HIV 4 0.13%

20 Hernia 4 0.13%

All Others 584 19.35%

 

Link

 

Based on this I'm sure Swammi wants to ban cars as they accidentally kill 44.36 times more kids than guns. I'm sure Swammi wants to ban swimming pools as they accidentally kill 11.36 times more kids than guns. We should also outlaw fireplaces and campfires as fire accidentally kills 10.93 times more kids than guns.

[TimC]

What else do you want to know about my private life?

 

I'd like to see more pics of that chick in yer avatar.

[i_am_the_swammi]

Swammi, on this I just have to vehemently disagree. IMO as a responsible parent it is imperative that you (or your wife) be familiar with the environment in which your kids will be spending time. If your child's friends parents aren't receptive to meeting you, having you over, etc., so you will be comfy having your kids over their house then why would you send them there?

 

It's kind of a paradox. It seems like people are much more interested in having some law that prohibits XYZ than in getting into the "trenches" and going over to Mrs. Cleaver's house to meet her and find out that the kids will have a fun and safe time there.

 

What you propose is idealistic, but generally not feasible actions. Ask any parent.

 

My kid is invited to a birthday party of a classmate. How am I to be familiar with the enviornment? Do I call and start asking a variety of questions? is this feasible?

 

My 10-year lold is playing in the neighborhood (we have about 25 houses in our immediate vacinity). The kids often ride their bikes from driveway to driveway, yard to yard, etc. I know the parents of every home fairly well, but not intimately. How do I know if there are guns kept in the garage?

 

Point is, there is no way of being able to tactfully ask the hard questions without being labeled (which might then elicit fewer invitations to my child for future get-togethers), and more importantly, no way of knowing if what you are being told is actually the truth.

 

I totally disagree with this statement. I think it is entirely your business to ask the parents. No different than asking is an adult will be at home. If I was concerned about the items above, there is no doubt I would ask. I have asked a neighbor who had recently returned from a hunting trip if his rifles were accessable because, even though he is a very good dad, I felt it my duty as a parent to make sure I asked the question before allowing my kid to play there. The guy took no disrepect by the question.

 

Now, on the porn and drugs issue I doubt you'll get an honest answer, but on the gun question, I think you will.

 

You scenario is an easy one to bring up.

 

See my scenarios above, especially as its often times the very first time you've ever spoken to the inviting party.

 

You knw your neighbor as a good dad, so it is apparent you already had a relationship with him. Suppose your kid was invited to a classmates party (not a neighbor), and you didn't know the parents. Is he allowed to go? Suppose your kid is 16, and out with some friends. You can't know everyone in his grade. Then what?

 

I agree, the best thing to do is educate your child as best you can, your way. Sadly, as is often times the case, its not you or your own kid you should be worried about...i

[Perchoutofwater]

More recent and a better break down based on age of why we should ban cars, swimming pools, and matches.

[10g_DBA]

Found this article at the top of the page on a google search....

 

 

Gun Accidents Kill 500 Kids a Year

Friday, August 1, 2008

Advice every parent needs to hear about firearm safety.

 

This week, a toddler fatally shot himself after finding a gun in his parent's car. According to Jackson, Miss., authorities, the 3-year-old was sitting in the car at a gas station when he found the gun in the front seat and shot himself in the face. Police questioned the boy's parents, but no charges have been filed.

 

But these aren't freak accidents. More than 500 children die annually from accidental gunshots. Some shoot themselves, while others kill friends or siblings after discovering a gun.

 

Here are more scary stats: Americans own 200 million firearms, and 35 percent of homes contain at least one gun. Last year, a study conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found more than 1.7 million children live in homes with loaded and unlocked guns.

 

And if you do own a gun and think your kid won't get to it, listen to this: A recent study published in the Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine found 39 percent of kids knew where their parent's guns were stored, while 22 percent said they had handled the weapons despite adult's warnings to stay away. What's more, age was not a factor in whether children had played with the guns -- 5-year-olds were just as likely to report doing so as 14-year-olds.

 

Here are just a few heartbreaking cases:

 

-On July 19, 4-year-old Dylan Jackson shot himself to death after finding a loaded gun at a friend's home during a birthday party.

 

- A 3-year-old Southeast Washington boy shot himself in the foot and grazed his hand while playing with his father's gun -- which he found lying on the floor.

 

- A 2-year-old Tampa boy shot himself in the chest with a loaded 9 mm he found in his parent's couch while playing.

 

- Last February, a 13-year-old boy shot himself with a semiautomatic handgun in the home of his guardian, a Maryland police officer.

 

- The 10-year-old son of a New York City police officer died after shooting himself in the face with his father's loaded revolver. The boy found the weapon on a shelf in the basement while looking for a ball his mom had hidden.

 

Is there a way to stop these senseless deaths?

 

The NRA (National Rifle Association) sponsors classes that teach children if they find a gun to leave the area and inform an adult, but studies show kids who take these classes are no less likely to play with guns than kids who don't attend class.

 

"The biggest mistake parents make is assuming their child doesn't know where the gun in the house is," says Matthew Miller, associate director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center. "Kids are smart and if they know there's a firearm in the house, they'll probably figure out a way to get to it."

 

"We can't expect children to act like adults," he adds. "Parents monitor their kid's diet, curfew, and social life but when it comes to guns, parents often just say, 'Respect the gun, it's off limits' or 'Guns are dangerous.' That type of parenting just doesn't work."

 

So should parents not tell kids if there's a gun in the home? "First, you have to weigh whether or not you really need a weapon," says Miller. "Do the benefits outweigh the risks? If the answer is yes, you must take safety precautions."

 

"Be honest with your children," says Miller. "Tell them there is a firearm in the home but explicitly explain that guns are fatal, no matter how children handle them. Don't keep the gun loaded and store the ammunition in a locked safe and carry the key with you at all times. Also, don't hide the combination and don't give it an obvious numerical password."

 

"The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends pediatricians ask parents about guns in their home in an effort called 'Anticipatory Guidance' which attempts to keep children safe in cars, on bikes, and around swimming pools," says Miller. "It's rare that doctors initiate this conversation, but they should."

 

"Also, ask the parents of your children's friends if they keep guns at home and if kids will be playing where they're stored," added Miller. "Don't worry about appearing intrusive. It's better to seem pushy and be safe."

 

Do you think parents should keep guns in their home with children present?

 

 

Read more: http://www.momlogic.com/2008/08/protect_yo...p#ixzz0lBsPJ2YF

 

We must ban guns! Think of the children.

 

If you want to protect your kids from the biggest risk of injury or death, then you want to focus your liberty-curbing efforts on disallowing home owners from digging swimming pools. Guns are only 1/10th the problem that pools are.

 

• Drowning is the leading cause of accidental injury-related death among children ages 1 to 4.

• Roughly 5,000 children 14 and under go to the hospital because of accidental drowning-related incidents each year; 15% die and about 20% suffer from permanent neurological disability.

• If that weren't bad enough, for each death caused by drowning, there are 1-4 nonfatal submersion accidents serious enough for the victim to be hospitalized.

 

I agree. Kids come first. Me must implement a stringent background check for every land-owner who wants to keep themselves cool in the summer. Felons, people with a history of mental illness, and those who fail a through FBI background check must not be allowed to swim. I don't buy the agreement that if we outlaw bathtubs, only criminals will take baths.

Edited April 15, 2010 by 10g_DBA

[i_am_the_swammi]

What else do you want to know about my private life? Do you want to know every time I use a deep fat fryer so your kid isn't around in case it would spill and burn him? Do you want to know if I have a dog and if my dog has ever bitten anyone? Do you want to know if I have sharp knives?

 

 

http://www.och.umd.edu/pdf/Fire%20Safety%2...in%20houses.pdf

It says in the article that children start over 18,900 house fires every year. Would you like me to show a detailed map of every place I have matches so your children know where to play at my house?

 

 

Link

 

Based on this I'm sure Swammi wants to ban cars as they accidentally kill 44.36 times more kids than guns. I'm sure Swammi wants to ban swimming pools as they accidentally kill 11.36 times more kids than guns. We should also outlaw fireplaces and campfires as fire accidentally kills 10.93 times more kids than guns.

 

Please show me where any of the items any of you mention are the subject of 2nd Amendment rights. Or any right in our Constituion. Or any public outcry. I will respnd once you do.

 

Otherwise, your points are rather, well, pointless, and draw no comparison to the point at hand....other than to illustrate that you are gun owners willing to make silly comparisons to hamper what should/could be a meaningful debate.

 

Edited to include this thoughtful gem;

 

If you want to protect your kids from the biggest risk of injury or death, then you want to focus your liberty-curbing efforts on disallowing home owners from digging swimming pools. Guns are only 1/10th the problem that pools are.

 

•Drowning is the leading cause of accidental injury-related death among children ages 1 to 4.

•Roughly 5,000 children 14 and under go to the hospital because of accidental drowning-related incidents each year; 15% die and about 20% suffer from permanent neurological disability.

•If that weren't bad enough, for each death caused by drowning, there are 1-4 nonfatal submersion accidents serious enough for the victim to be hospitalized.

 

I agree. Kids come first. Me must implement a stringent background check for every land-owner who wants to keep themselves cool in the summer. Felons, people with a history of mental illness, and those who fail a through FBI background check must not be allowed to swim I don't buy the agreement that if we outlaw bathtubs, only criminals will take baths.

Edited April 15, 2010 by i_am_the_swammi

[gbpfan1231]

Please show me where any of the items any of you mention are the subject of 2nd Amendment rights. Or any right in our Constituion. Or any public outcry. I will respnd once you do.

 

Otherwise, your points are rather, well, pointless, and draw no comparison to the point at hand....other than to illustrate that you are gun owners willing to make silly comparisons to hamper what should/could be a meaningful debate.

 

Edited to include this thoughtful gem;

Don't own a gun and probably never will.

 

My whole point is that I think you are nuts to have someone have to make it publicly aware if they own a gun.

 

There will soon be nothing private in life anymore. This world is going into the crapper big time.

[gbpfan1231]

I'd like to see more pics of that chick in yer avatar.

I forgot where I got it but dang she is smokin

[Perchoutofwater]

Please show me where any of the items any of you mention are the subject of 2nd Amendment rights. Or any right in our Constituion. Or any public outcry. I will respnd once you do.

 

Otherwise, your points are rather, well, pointless, and draw no comparison to the point at hand....other than to illustrate that you are gun owners willing to make silly comparisons to hamper what should/could be a meaningful debate.

 

Edited to include this thoughtful gem;

 

What does the second amendment have to do with your irrational fear. We've listed three different things that are much more dangerous than fire arm yet for some reason you don't have an irrational fear of them. I'm guessing the reason you don't have an irrational fear of them is that you've used each several times and have become comfortable with them. I doubt that you are very familiar with firearms, as I've never seen anyone trained in firearms regardless of political dispensation have an irrational fear of them.

 

What is silly about the comparisons made? Does the fact that cars, pools and matches aren't protected by the Constitution make them any less dangerous? How is Constitutional protection germane to your irrational fears? Could the reason there isn't an irrational outcry to ban cars, pools, and matches be that people actually take the time learn to use these, and have become comfortable with them?

[i_am_the_swammi]

What does the second amendment have to do with your irrational fear. We've listed three different things that are much more dangerous than fire arm yet for some reason you don't have an irrational fear of them. I'm guessing the reason you don't have an irrational fear of them is that you've used each several times and have become comfortable with them. I doubt that you are very familiar with firearms, as I've never seen anyone trained in firearms regardless of political dispensation have an irrational fear of them.

 

What is silly about the comparisons made? Does the fact that cars, pools and matches aren't protected by the Constitution make them any less dangerous? How is Constitutional protection germane to your irrational fears? Could the reason there isn't an irrational outcry to ban cars, pools, and matches be that people actually take the time learn to use these, and have become comfortable with them?

 

Why is it irrational? because you believe the opposite?

 

Seems there are plenty of people in this thread alone that agree gun safety where children are concerned is a pretty important thing.

 

The fact that you do not is rather frightening at best.

[Caveman_Nick]

I'd like to see more pics of that chick in yer avatar.

 

 

IIRC her name is Sydney Moon, and I would not advise googling her at work.

[bpwallace49]

What does the second amendment have to do with your irrational fear. We've listed three different things that are much more dangerous than fire arm yet for some reason you don't have an irrational fear of them. I'm guessing the reason you don't have an irrational fear of them is that you've used each several times and have become comfortable with them. I doubt that you are very familiar with firearms, as I've never seen anyone trained in firearms regardless of political dispensation have an irrational fear of them.

 

What is silly about the comparisons made? Does the fact that cars, pools and matches aren't protected by the Constitution make them any less dangerous? How is Constitutional protection germane to your irrational fears? Could the reason there isn't an irrational outcry to ban cars, pools, and matches be that people actually take the time learn to use these, and have become comfortable with them?

 

Perch I am afraid of a guy driving a car that hasnt been taught how to drive because that could affect me and my family. Someone that has no idea how to swim might be afraid of pools and drowning.

 

My kids have been around guns since forever. Like you I keep them locked up and NEVER leave them about. However I do not feel the need to carry 24-7 so I do not. If someone asked me if guns were in the house because they were nervous I would tell them they are locked up, but I DO have knives in a block that arent locked up . . .

 

Just like pools and cars, if people do not know how to use guns, they can kill you or others. You need a license to legally operate a vehicle, and go through a training process to be certified to operate a car. You probably need a permit to have a pool with established fencing for safety according to local municipality. Do you need to pass a safety course to buy a gun? Background check yes . . but a safety course?

 

A fear of something you are not familiar with is not irrational at all. Especially when irrational people can easily get ahold of guns.

Edited April 15, 2010 by bpwallace49

[HowboutthemCowboys]

Seems there are plenty of people in this thread alone that agree gun safety where children are concerned is a pretty important thing.

It's a VERY important thing. But IMO banning the carry of guns ( legally) and posting a sign in your yard saying you own guns is ridiculous.