Jim Joyce

[Big F'n Dave]

Wow!

[SheikYerbuti]

We should have a poll: Should Bud Selig overrule and give the kid a perfect game.

 

I just woke up so I'm too tired to do it.

[loaf]

brutal.

[TimC]

You ain't kidding. Horrible.

[detlef]

We should have a poll: Should Bud Selig overrule and give the kid a perfect game.

 

I just woke up so I'm too tired to do it.

The purists would crap themselves over the horrible precedent that would be set if you allowed the last play of a game (so there goes the argument of any trickle down effect of changing one play and how that would effect later plays) to be overturned.

[rattsass]

brutal.

Being a born and raised Cardinals fan, that film clip brought me right back to the Don Denkinger outrage that cost the Cards the series. That was the beginning of the end of my love affair with baseball. And even though I could care less about baseball any more, I still hate Denkinger. And I hate to see any player get ripped out of the books on a bad call in any sport.

 

A more pressing question is, what the hell is going on with all the perfect games? Can anybody explain that?

[i_am_the_swammi]

We should have a poll: Should Bud Selig overrule and give the kid a perfect game.

 

Of course not

[Big John]

We should have a poll: Should Bud Selig overrule and give the kid a perfect game.

 

I just woke up so I'm too tired to do it.

ESPN is doing that.

[keggerz]

a link to video of the call is in the non-football forum

[i_am_the_swammi]

ESPN is doing that.

 

And most people will vote with their heart and say "yes", without understanding the ramifications of other "bad calls" over the years that could have affected the history books.

[SheikYerbuti]

Did you know that when Fay Vincent was commish, he reached into the history books and ruled that FIFTY no-hitters were not no hitters and struck them from the record books?

 

Just sayin'. . .

Edited June 3, 2010 by SheikYerbuti

[i_am_the_swammi]

Did you know that when Fay Vincent was commish, he reached into the history books and ruled that FIFTY no-hitters were not no hitters and struck them from the record books?

 

Just sayin'. . .

 

Yep, and when they ruled the George Brett pine-tar call was a bad one, they actually ordered the teams to come out the next day and play the 9th inning over again. No question its been done.

 

I just think its a terrible slippery slope, and will open a can of worms of other calls that could/should be reversed that weren't.

 

Interesting question: suppose, last night, the exact opposite happened: that Donald was actually safe, and Joyce called him out, setting off a wild celebration. Then they look at the replay, and see the call was wrong. then what? Should they say "no perfect game", and order the teams to come back out an play?

 

I think its a bad precendent to reverse calls that have already been made, unless they do them on-the-spot.

[TimC]

Swammi, what's your opinion on expanding replay calls to fix this stuff on the spot?

[i_am_the_swammi]

Swammi, what's your opinion on expanding replay calls to fix this stuff on the spot?

 

Kinda torn. Part of me thinks that "we have the technology in place to make sure the call is made to the best of our ability".

 

But another part of me says that, especially in a sport like baseball where very single pitch is a judgement call, that replay has no place except for calls where no judgement is needed (i.e did the ball go over the fence, or inside the foul pole)....those kinds of calls are often missed because its just to hard to see that far from the infield where the umps stand.

 

But pure judgement calls? Balls and Strikes? bang/bang plays? geez, there could be a zillion things that could be reviewed, if you let them.

[Chief Dick]

I thought it was a good call.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:royalsin85thanksdon;)

[posty]

Yep, and when they ruled the George Brett pine-tar call was a bad one, they actually ordered the teams to come out the next day and play the 9th inning over again. No question its been done.

 

That wasn't a bad call situation, that was a rule book situation...

 

And the game happened on July 24th and finished up on August 18th...

Edited June 3, 2010 by posty

[Savage Beatings]

I just don't understand why we refuse to use modern technology in order to make correct calls like this. He was wrong. The replay showed he was wrong. He later admitted he was wrong. It's just stupid to allow unneccesarry errors in play calling to affect the actual game being played by the players and managers.

[muck]

Did it impact who won or lost?

 

No.

 

...therefore, no re-do, change, etc...

 

It stays as it was called.

[keggerz]

I actually think the reason the ump missed the call is because of how the pitcher snowcone caught the ball...I could be wrong but it is pretty much impossible for an ump to see the ball is in the glove and watch a foot hit the bag at the same time...umps are pretty much making those calls based on watching the foot and hearing the ball in the glove....i could be off base but I bet that was a big factor in the safe call.

 

I know that DGF does some umping and would love to hear his take on 1st base bang bang plays...or anyone else that umps for that matter

Edited June 3, 2010 by keggerz

[twiley]

I thought it was a good call.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:royalsin85thanksdon;)

Screw you.

[Gopher]

Jim Leyland and Galarraga don't have a problem with it (after "cooler heads prevailed" as Leyland put it), and if they're OK with it, it doesn't really matter what anybody else thinks. Was it an incorrect call? Sure. Was it a lot closer in real time (not slow motion) than a lot of people think? Yes... Leyland himself said that he couldn't tell at first glance, and needed a second look to be able to tell that the runner was clearly out. It is somewhat hard for me to say, since I saw the slow-mo replay about a half-dozen times before I saw it in real speed. But, depending on the camera angle that you're viewing, I can't say with 100% certainty that I would have been able to say the runner was out, without wanting to take a second look or see it in slow motion.

 

Not sure what else needs to be said. I've heard people say that Joyce should have erred in the other direction, given the circumstances. That's ridiculous... umpires don't think that way (decide ahead of time which way they're going to make a certain call, based on the game situation). Joyce has been in the business long enough that he reacts on instinct, not on how it is going to affect the game, in terms of big picture. It did look like he went to make the "out" call, then motioned "safe", but that could be because of something he saw as Galarrage caught the ball (it did look to me like he adjusted/bobbled it slightly as it hit his glove... not enough for the runner to beat the throw, but enough for Joyce to possibly hesitate in making the call, which it appears he did).

 

Personally, I don't think it would be right for Selig to "overrule" this. Not to mention, that's the last guy I would ever want making such a decision. The guy is a clown. What else can be done? I, for one, don't want to see baseball go the route of the NFL, where managers are allowed to throw a red flag once per game, to dispute a call. Not saying that's even in consideration, but people like to throw out the "there should be instant replay" comments when things like this occur. Like Leyland said, it's the human element of the game, and that should not be changed. People make mistakes. It didn't affect the outcome of the game, in terms of who won and who lost, it doesn't affect the standings, and it most likely won't affect the amount of money Galarraga makes. It changes the history of baseball, but umpires' calls have been doing that for over a century.

[posty]

Jim Leyland and Galarraga don't have a problem with it (after "cooler heads prevailed" as Leyland put it), and if they're OK with it, it doesn't really matter what anybody else thinks. Was it an incorrect call? Sure. Was it a lot closer in real time (not slow motion) than a lot of people think? Yes... Leyland himself said that he couldn't tell at first glance, and needed a second look to be able to tell that the runner was clearly out. It is somewhat hard for me to say, since I saw the slow-mo replay about a half-dozen times before I saw it in real speed. But, depending on the camera angle that you're viewing, I can't say with 100% certainty that I would have been able to say the runner was out, without wanting to take a second look or see it in slow motion.

 

Not sure what else needs to be said. I've heard people say that Joyce should have erred in the other direction, given the circumstances. That's ridiculous... umpires don't think that way (decide ahead of time which way they're going to make a certain call, based on the game situation). Joyce has been in the business long enough that he reacts on instinct, not on how it is going to affect the game, in terms of big picture. It did look like he went to make the "out" call, then motioned "safe", but that could be because of something he saw as Galarrage caught the ball (it did look to me like he adjusted/bobbled it slightly as it hit his glove... not enough for the runner to beat the throw, but enough for Joyce to possibly hesitate in making the call, which it appears he did).

 

Personally, I don't think it would be right for Selig to "overrule" this. Not to mention, that's the last guy I would ever want making such a decision. The guy is a clown. What else can be done? I, for one, don't want to see baseball go the route of the NFL, where managers are allowed to throw a red flag once per game, to dispute a call. Not saying that's even in consideration, but people like to throw out the "there should be instant replay" comments when things like this occur. Like Leyland said, it's the human element of the game, and that should not be changed. People make mistakes. It didn't affect the outcome of the game, in terms of who won and who lost, it doesn't affect the standings, and it most likely won't affect the amount of money Galarraga makes. It changes the history of baseball, but umpires' calls have been doing that for over a century.

 

When I saw it live, I though he was initially safe...

 

But great, GREAT post...

Edited June 3, 2010 by posty

[Azazello1313]

I think the commissioner should declare it in the books as a perfect game. the only reason you can do it (and NOT create a ridiculously slippery slope) is that if it was ruled correctly, it is the LAST PLAY OF THE GAME. that is very rarely the case with a clearly bad call, and therefore you can't do anything about it after the fact. in this case, changing the ruling doesn't do anything but take a hit away from the guy who didn't get one, take an 0-fer away from the next guy up, and gives an official perfect game to a guy who actually pitched one. no-brainer IMO.

[SheikYerbuti]

I've heard people say that Joyce should have erred in the other direction, given the circumstances. That's ridiculous... umpires don't think that way (decide ahead of time which way they're going to make a certain call, based on the game situation).

 

Bullcrap. Home plate umps give "make-up" balls and strikes to batters all the time.

[posty]

Some tweets from Jason Beck...

 

# Joyce gives Galarraga a pat on the shoulder. He still looks emotional.

# Nice polite applause for Jim Joyce and ump crew as they come on to field.

# Joyce said his family has been hearing it since last night, asks fans to leave his family out of this.

 

FYI, the family getting crap is totally classless...