cre8tiff Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Have fun in Hell. I'll look you up, since every religion thinks every other religion is going to Hell, then EVERYONE goes to Hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWmaker Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 What is your "religious denomination" (basically) $100 I worship money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWmaker Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Evidently, my worshipping has yet to lead me to salvation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I refuse to believe that there is a higher being that is so vain and jealous that a person who led a good life, was kind to others and followed what most would say was a just and moral life would be conscripted to some endless burning hell simply because that kind and generous person didn't swear fealty to this vain and jealous god. If God/Allah/Yahweh exists, He doesn't care if you go to church. He doesn't care of you pay homage to Him. He doesn't care if you give money to keep your preacher in $1,000.00 suits. He doesn't want you to kill or ostracize anyone who doesn't believe. Those are all trapping of the Church, created by human beings, not divinity. He would only care that you were a good member of humanity. Although I am Catholic, i cant say that I fully disagree with this. It is actually the creed of Whompianity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I'll look you up, since every religion thinks every other religion is going to Hell, then EVERYONE goes to Hell. Just so you know, there's some guy sitting at the right side of God's throne saving my seat for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Although I am Catholic, i cant say that I fully disagree with this. It is actually the creed of Whompianity Now, if I had proof you actually existed, I might just be a Whompostal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Now, if I had proof you actually existed, I might just be a Whompostal. Thats what they call it when I get angry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 The answer is yes, not because of them not making a positive statement but because we are all atheists until taught differently, either by our parents or by an organization. This is clearly not relegated solely to the realm of religion as any child has no concept of any power that exists in the physical, spiritual or cultural world until exposed to these things. All of these things are taught at some level and not all of the lessons learned are correct. but wouldn't being an athiest translate to making a decision that there is no God? No higher power? I would suggest that somebody who has yet to make the determination is agnostic - not that you can apply any of this to babies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Agent Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thats what they call it when I get angry Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Just so you know, there's some guy sitting at the right side of God's throne saving my seat for me. Good deal, but you'd better learn to remember His name. I hear He's sensitive about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Good deal, but you'd better learn to remember His name. I hear He's sensitive about that. Name is Egg to unta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 but wouldn't being an athiest translate to making a decision that there is no God? No higher power? No. (equating "decision" with belief). Some atheists have done that. (Strong atheists). Some have not. (Weak atheists or agnostic atheists.) Atheism means only that you do not believe that god exists. It doesn't necessarily mean that you believe that there is no god. If you're not sure or haven't made up your mind, you don't believe that god exists. Acknowledging that a god may exist is not acknowledging that a god exists. Follow? I would suggest that somebody who has yet to make the determination is agnostic No. It means that the person has not made a determination. It means that the person is an atheist (specifically a weak atheist) because he or she does not believe that god exists. "Agnostic" does not mean undecided. It has nothing to do with the belief or disbelief in the existence of god. People who don't know, or are undecided, should just say that if they don't want to call themselves an atheist. I shouldn't click on this thread again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I shouldn't click on this thread again. Don't do that... I actually think I understnad what you are getting at. I just think that the wording was a little clumsy. Basically a Theist is someone is will go so far as to say that I believe in God. Anyone who does not, is not a Theist, and therefore an Atheist (or non Theist). Is that about what you're trying to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Easy to understand why this can be a confounding topic. To acknowledge that there is no way of knowing the answer is considered a valid belief. We're wired to form concrete decisions and opinions on everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 http://mw1.meriam-webster.com/ 1ag·nos·tic noun \ag-ˈnäs-tik, əg-\ Definition of AGNOSTIC 1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god 2: a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something <political agnostics> — ag·nos·ti·cism \-tə-ˌsi-zəm\ noun athe·ist noun \ˈā-thē-ist\ Definition of ATHEIST : one who believes that there is no deity — athe·is·tic \ˌā-thē-ˈis-tik\ or athe·is·ti·cal \ˌā-thē-ˈis-ti-kəl\ adjective — athe·is·ti·cal·ly \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 but wouldn't being an athiest translate to making a decision that there is no God? No higher power? I would suggest that somebody who has yet to make the determination is agnostic - not that you can apply any of this to babies We're spitting hairs here, but I would argue that there is a choice for any path, but by not knowing the path exists, a choice cannot be consciously made. Therefore a baby, having no knowledge of any gods, cannot make a choice. Therefore, one that does not know of the existence of gods, does not believe in gods and therefore is atheistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 To acknowledge that there is no way of knowing the answer is considered a valid belief. To acknowledge that there is no way of knowing the answer is really about the only statement about religion which is not debatable ie a rock solid fact. All else is belief and opinion. No, I am not agnostic. Just stating what should be obvious. None of us knows what lies beyond or will until we die (and if you're an atheist, you could argue one won't even know then, since one would simply cease to exist ie not be around to know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 We're spitting hairs here, but I would argue that there is a choice for any path, but by not knowing the path exists, a choice cannot be consciously made. Therefore a baby, having no knowledge of any gods, cannot make a choice. Therefore, one that does not know of the existence of gods, does not believe in gods and therefore is atheistic. diagree completely If you believe that God creates all life ( as I do ) then a baby is as far from an atheistic as can be I believe its the opposite ...baby's are created to be believers and if they end up not being believers its because they decided not to be later in life With your theory, if an infant dies then what should one believe that since they were born atheistic they have no chance for afterlife or heaven ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 You're both wrong. A baby is nowhere near capable of grasping the concept, so it doesn't believe or disbelieve in God. ie it has no real "religious beliefs." And I have this crazy idea God kinda takes that into account.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 With your theory, if an infant dies then what should one believe that since they were born atheistic they have no chance for afterlife or heaven ? I believe in Kid's 'theory,' there is no afterlife or heaven and therefore, if an infant, a teen, or an adult dies, they have no chance for afterlife or heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 You're both wrong. A baby is nowhere near capable of grasping the concept, so it doesn't believe or disbelieve in God. ie it has no real "religious beliefs." And I have this crazy idea God kinda takes that into account.... There are some religious sects (rather large ones) that believe a baby must be cleansed of Adam's original sin, else they are bound for purgatory (they cannot enter Heaven). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 diagree completely If you believe that God creates all life ( as I do ) then a baby is as far from an atheistic as can be I believe its the opposite ...baby's are created to be believers and if they end up not being believers its because they decided not to be later in life With your theory, if an infant dies then what should one believe that since they were born atheistic they have no chance for afterlife or heaven ? Take a step back and think about things for a second. Belief or non-belief is not an instinct, it is the result of a conscious decision. We are not born with a belief gene. The same can be said about us being able to use forks or do simple addition. This is why we have schools, so that the accumulated knowledge of those that have come before us can be passed on to those coming after us and that they can function in the social and cultural construct that we have created. The concepts of gods and religion are taught to all of us starting at an early age. Even if the parents aren't religious in their own right, an individual is exposed to religion even though a simple question like "Daddy, what's that big white building with the tall pointy thing on top?" Part of the knowledge that has been accumulated over time is the writings about gods and religion. This includes not just the current writings on Christ and Muhammad, but also what we now call mythology or the gods of other cultures including Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Sumerian, etc. (As an aside, you'll notice that any religion or collections of gods not part of the current cultural structure is lumped into the category of mythology. It makes one wonder when the same will happen to the currently active religions). It is important to note, that each and every belief system is taught, either through a structured class environment, casual experience or in the home. However, no individual comes out of the womb with an innate ability to identify their particular god. Now to answer your question, the afterlife is a construct of a particular religion. It has no actual meaning in the physical world in which our consciousness exists. Each religion or culture structures the afterlife according to how it fits in within the existing constructs of their dogma. In the Christian construct, adults are encouraged to Baptize a child as soon as possible so that they can have the mark upon them that allows their God to recognize them and allow them into heaven (for a lack of a better way of saying it). So exceptionally early in that child's life, the adults begin imprinting their cultural and religious values upon an infant that is incapable of grasping these higher concepts. It also assuages the adult's fear of the very thing you mentioned, that because the child cannot grasp the concept of a gods or gods, that they are in essence atheistic and therefore not allowed into the bonus round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) because the child cannot grasp the concept of a gods or gods, that they are in essence atheistic That doesn't make any sense. This post appears to need repeated: http://mw1.meriam-webster.com/ 1ag·nos·tic noun \ag-ˈnäs-tik, əg-\ Definition of AGNOSTIC 1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god 2: a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something <political agnostics> — ag·nos·ti·cism \-tə-ˌsi-zəm\ noun athe·ist noun \ˈā-thē-ist\ Definition of ATHEIST: one who believes that there is no deity — athe·is·tic \ˌā-thē-ˈis-tik\ or athe·is·ti·cal \ˌā-thē-ˈis-ti-kəl\ adjective — athe·is·ti·cal·ly \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb Edited January 8, 2011 by BeeR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Part of the knowledge that has been accumulated over time is the writings about gods and religion. This includes not just the current writings on Christ and Muhammad, but also what we now call mythology or the gods of other cultures including Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Sumerian, etc. (As an aside, you'll notice that any religion or collections of gods not part of the current cultural structure is lumped into the category of mythology. It makes one wonder when the same will happen to the currently active religions). Excellent observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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