Azazello1313 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 It is about reducing civil rights in individuals based on their sex; no jobs, no right to vote, etc. well, leave it to a progressive to argue that letting people do what the hell they want is reducing their civil rights. here's the thing. polygamy is outlawed and shunned primarily because, as you sorta point out, it's like a marriage ponzi scheme, it's an unsustainable model on a society-wide scale. so it's immoral, you shouldn't be allowed to live that way, the government needs to make that lifestyle illegal to protect society as a whole from that corruption. well, to me that sounds an awful lot like the justification gay marriage opponents offer for their position. you apparently share with gay marriage opponents the idea that it is proper to legislate what consenting adults do in the bedroom and with their domestic situation based on morality, you just don't think gay marriage is immoral and they do. you and they view the issue as a question of what is good and correct for society, and seek to impose that view by rule of law. I view it as an issue of consenting adults being allowed to define their domestic situation however they please, regardless of how I might feel about any of the potential situations morally -- and under that view, same sex marriage and polygamy are indeed pretty closely related and symmetrical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 I think there may be some practical issues with polygamy aside from the "enslavement" thing. Survivor benefits - one of the objections to gay marriage is that it would extend survivor benefits (which it would, by a very tiny amount) but what would happen in a polygamous situation? Would all xx number of wives receive benefits? Gender balance - there's a reason the number of boys / girls born is extremely close. Polygamy on a significant scale might damage the gene pool. 1) Survivor benefits. It would seem like a natural solution is that the amount doesn't go up, it just gets divided up more than one way. Net zero sum. A similar deal could be made with health insurance. Typically, a spouse costs something to add to a company-sponsored plan and kids more still. You could just charge more per spouse 2) The gender balance thing should not be an issue. Again, just because the only examples right now of polygamy are one man, multiple wives, doesn't mean groups of other shapes would not begin to exist if the notion of "marriage" was removed and it was simply people choosing to create a union, even a platonic one. I also don't think that most would choose this lifestyle, so I doubt it would make much of a difference. Keep in mind. I'm not saying this would be better if more people shacked up in groups. Just saying that it seems like something that we don't need to be protected from. There are enough crappy two person relationships to cross that off the list as one of the reasons why we should limit unions to only two people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Can we go ahead and just make it legal for people to hump goats for chrsssakes?!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Can we go ahead and just make it legal for people to hump goats for chrsssakes?!?!?! Why do you think Jumping Johnnies stopped coming around after those pocs from Vegas surfaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 The gheys will morally corrupt our society. checkMarriage is only for a man and a woman. check Its a slippery slope.... then what you going to do, let a guy marry three women or a goat? check Adam and eve, not adam and steve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Can we go ahead and just make it legal for people to hump goats for chrsssakes?!?!?! A long unrequited dream of all Georgians. . . . best of luck in your mission striving for legal status Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 A long unrequited dream of all Georgians. . . . best of luck in your mission striving for legal status damn anti-russians Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 well, leave it to a progressive to argue that letting people do what the hell they want is reducing their civil rights. here's the thing. polygamy is outlawed and shunned primarily because, as you sorta point out, it's like a marriage ponzi scheme, it's an unsustainable model on a society-wide scale. so it's immoral, you shouldn't be allowed to live that way, the government needs to make that lifestyle illegal to protect society as a whole from that corruption. well, to me that sounds an awful lot like the justification gay marriage opponents offer for their position. you apparently share with gay marriage opponents the idea that it is proper to legislate what consenting adults do in the bedroom and with their domestic situation based on morality, you just don't think gay marriage is immoral and they do. you and they view the issue as a question of what is good and correct for society, and seek to impose that view by rule of law. I view it as an issue of consenting adults being allowed to define their domestic situation however they please, regardless of how I might feel about any of the potential situations morally -- and under that view, same sex marriage and polygamy are indeed pretty closely related and symmetrical. That's all certainly very interesting, but that is certainly not my intent. Does one's religious freedoms enable them to create an environment in this country where you can deny someone their civil rights? The answer to that is very clear. That's the question here as I see it, and that is nowhere near your clever use of semantics to twist what I said into something it was not. Polygamy as practiced in this country made women second class citizens. They are not. neither are gay people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Does one's religious freedoms enable them to create an environment in this country where you can deny someone their civil rights? The answer to that is very clear. That's the question here as I see it, and that is nowhere near your clever use of semantics to twist what I said into something it was not. Polygamy as practiced in this country made women second class citizens. They are not. I get it. you think polygamy is wrong and you think government should forcibly impose that judgment on people who feel it is right. it's fine that you feel that way, and it's fine that others feel the same way about the gheys. but I would let the grown-ass women and men who practice polygamy (or want to) speak for their own civil rights. it is beyond patronizing into utter absurdity to say that dictating to them who they sleep and live with is protecting their civil rights, and that letting them make their own decisions would make them second class citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 That's all certainly very interesting, but that is certainly not my intent. Does one's religious freedoms enable them to create an environment in this country where you can deny someone their civil rights? The answer to that is very clear. That's the question here as I see it, and that is nowhere near your clever use of semantics to twist what I said into something it was not. Polygamy as practiced in this country made women second class citizens. They are not. neither are gay people. And what about the number of traditional marriages where women were treated as 2nd class citizens by their husbands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Irish Doggy Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 And what about the number of traditional marriages where women were treated as 2nd class citizens by their husbands? Too low? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I feel like we've really been sold a bill of goods with the lesbians. Sounds great on paper, but the reality doesn't live up to the hype. You see a pair of them out somewhere, inevitably one or both of them look like a dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 And what about the number of traditional marriages where women were treated as 2nd class citizens by their husbands? Well, if thy hadn't acted like first class biatches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I feel like we've really been sold a bill of goods with the lesbians. Sounds great on paper, but the reality doesn't live up to the hype. You see a pair of them out somewhere, inevitably one or both of them look like a dude. i was fortunate enough to see the wedding pocs of 2 chicks and dude lookin dude wore a tux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Is this real? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I feel like we've really been sold a bill of goods with the lesbians. Sounds great on paper, but the reality doesn't live up to the hype. You see a pair of them out somewhere, inevitably one or both of them look like a dude. I was going to regret opening up this lame thread, but Matt makes it all worth it. The part I never understand is why do girls that are straight for awhile and then "turn" gay end up dating a chick that looks like a lame version of a dude that they never would've talked to when they were straight? I mean, if you decide you're into chicks, at least go find a hot one. For example, that one redhead chick from sex and the city dated a dude for like a decade and then breaks up, goes gay, and the chick looks like a frumpy dude. I agree, lesbians are just over hyped. The fake ones in college that get drunk and make out but are really interested in deep dicken are the better variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Sooo...wife and I planned a little romance night to celebrate moving back to the city where we met. We got a room at the Hilton downtown and went to Trader Vic's for dinner. What we failed to investigate......anyone happen to know what was going on in Atlanta this past weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Sooo...wife and I planned a little romance night to celebrate moving back to the city where we met. We got a room at the Hilton downtown and went to Trader Vic's for dinner. What we failed to investigate......anyone happen to know what was going on in Atlanta this past weekend? Occupy Atlanta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I get it. you think polygamy is wrong and you think government should forcibly impose that judgment on people who feel it is right. it's fine that you feel that way, and it's fine that others feel the same way about the gheys. but I would let the grown-ass women and men who practice polygamy (or want to) speak for their own civil rights. it is beyond patronizing into utter absurdity to say that dictating to them who they sleep and live with is protecting their civil rights, and that letting them make their own decisions would make them second class citizens. No, you don't. When polygamy was practiced in Utah, in many areas it was in fact codified with local laws. Women were not allowed to vote - it was ILLEGAL. You do understand that is different than having the right to vote and exercising the right not to vote? It was ILLEGAL for them to have jobs. You do understand that is different than having the right to work and exercising the right not to work? I ask because it sure doesn't appear so. I am against litigating away civil rights of any group for any reason. You'd rather twist part of what I said and ignore the rest to put weak ass words into my mouth. That's how poor your argument is: you are having it with yourself. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Let me add this... If I ever decide to go gay, I ain't getting married. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Sooo...wife and I planned a little romance night to celebrate moving back to the city where we met. We got a room at the Hilton downtown and went to Trader Vic's for dinner. What we failed to investigate......anyone happen to know what was going on in Atlanta this past weekend? Packers pep rally on Saturday, GB/ATL game on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Packers/LGBT pep rally on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeteebee Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 GB/ATL game on Sunday. So that was the Gays & Bisexuals vs. the Asexuals, Transgenders and Lezbos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 So that was the Gays & Bisexuals vs. the Asexuals, Transgenders and Lezbos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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