delusions of grandeur Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Fair? Seriously? And who exactly is the arbiter of what "fair" is? You? Clearly it's the guy who has no stake in the trade, and can predict the future to where he doesn't just think, but knows that it's going to turn out an unbalanced trade. Hell, all the FF nerds around here don't even agree on stud player's values, and player's values can change dramatically (just see the top 5 RBs this year). People value players differently, and it should only be up to you how you personally view them, not the fair police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Fair? Seriously? And who exactly is the arbiter of what "fair" is? You? Liberals?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Liberals?? This will not end well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 If someone is just stupid and makes a bad trade You mean like last year when I traded Fitzgerald for Lloyd? Steve Smith North for Steve Johnson? Austin for Wallace after week 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethant Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 The CJ trade seems fine - it's not at all clear he's going to be worth anything this year. The Roddy trade is questionable at face value, but the larger point is you now know who the owner is that you should be making a run at with questionable trade offers. Everyone in the league has the same opportunity to make trades with this owner. It just so happens someone beat you to the punch. If you think the other owners are stupid and it ruins the fun for you (completely legit), it's much easier to quietly bow out at the end of the year than try to clue people in to how dumb they may or may not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious_bass Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 As others have said, no collusion = no veto Not all trades are fair and it is an awfully slippery slope to go down to try to evaluate the "fairness" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 These threads never seem to go the way in which the authors seemed to intend them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 As others have said, no collusion = no veto Not all trades are fair and it is an awfully slippery slope to go down to try to evaluate the "fairness" That's another good point about trades not necessarily having to be fair... It's like I always say in the advice forum, that you can't just look at the players at face value, you have to look further into whether the upgrade exceeds the downgrade (with interpositional trades anyway)... There could very easily be a trade that at the surface looks like a slam dunk or a bad trade, but what matters most is whether it improves your team and doesn't create holes. It doesn't have to be "fair" to improve your team. Sometimes you have to give up more than you'd like to satisfy a need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Agent Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 it's not about collusion, it's about making the league fair. If someone is just stupid and makes a bad trade it's not collusion cause he doesn't know any better, but you still have to veto it because it makes the league uneven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slambo Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 The trades in question are not outlandish. Mind your own business and run your own team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 it's not about collusion, it's about making the league fair. If someone is just stupid and makes a bad trade it's not collusion cause he doesn't know any better, but you still have to veto it because it makes the league uneven. Even if it's not collusion by allowing one team to gain White could make his team so much better it's not fair to the other teams in the league. You said it "could" make his team so much better. This leads me to think that you do not know if it will benefit him team more than the other team. Yet you want to veto this trade. You want to tell another owner that he is too stupid to manage his own team but thankfully, his league mates will make sure he only makes good trades. This might be acceptable. However, I think in this situation, the league should enact a rule: If an owner "clearly" makes a stupid trade, that trade can be vetoed by the other owners of the league. However, at the end of the season, if this trade would have resulted in more points for "stupid" owner, the "stupid" owner is entitled to $100 from each person who voted to veto the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanTheMan_5 Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 I am the commish of a league and I used to allow other teams to vote to approve trades. 2 years ago I said for now on it would be my call. I have never vetoed a trade. I have never suspected collusion either. Owners are allow to make dumb moves. Most trades may seem lopsided, but so long as I can look at each teams lineup and understand why they may think thew trade will help their team, I have no issues with it. Some owners spend a lot of time making creative trade offers that help both teams. Even if a guy trades 2 bench players for a solid starter, if your 2 bench players are starters on your trade partners team, then I don't see how it cannot be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecondString Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 do you guys think these trades are fair? roddy white for anquan boldin straight up and chris johnson for desean jackson straight up im thinking no..and no.. CJ2K, nothing to be done there. Who's to say whether or not that is fair, based on the fact that we don't know if CJ2K will be the crappy flex option he is now, or the top tier RB1 that he has been historically. People value him at both end of that spectum, and at all points in between. Let it go. In the case of the other trade, I think it deserves looking into, because it is lopsided by almost everybody's valuation. If I were the LM, I would have a conversation with the guy who is getting Boldin. Is he just new/unknowledgable? If so, I would explain to him that he is making a trade that almost 100% of owners would say he is getting the short end of, does he really want to do this, and give him the chance to change his mind. Is he buddies with the guy he's trading with? If so, and if he can't offer a legitimate reason as to how he thinks this will better his team, you would have to consider the veto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) These threads never seem to go the way in which the authors seemed to intend them... This much is certain. I love how they likely post these things expecting a chorus of "OMG! How could anyone make that trade!" Only to get completely chight on and told to mind their own business. Edited September 29, 2011 by detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious_bass Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) CJ2K, nothing to be done there. Who's to say whether or not that is fair, based on the fact that we don't know if CJ2K will be the crappy flex option he is now, or the top tier RB1 that he has been historically. People value him at both end of that spectum, and at all points in between. Let it go. In the case of the other trade, I think it deserves looking into, because it is lopsided by almost everybody's valuation. If I were the LM, I would have a conversation with the guy who is getting Boldin. Is he just new/unknowledgable? If so, I would explain to him that he is making a trade that almost 100% of owners would say he is getting the short end of, does he really want to do this, and give him the chance to change his mind. Is he buddies with the guy he's trading with? If so, and if he can't offer a legitimate reason as to how he thinks this will better his team, you would have to consider the veto. What everyone else thinks about it is irrelevant. What matters is what the two owners involved in the trade think of it (unless, of course, there is some provable collusion). Just because "almost 100% of owners would say" something doesnt mean it is so. Almost 100% of people said Arian Foster was a top 2 pick coming into this season. How is that working out? What if an owner wanted to trade Foster for Fred Jackson straight up before Week 1? Would you say the trade should be nixed based on the other league owners' perceived value of each player? Who would be on the good end of that trade right now, btw? Provable collusion is the only reason a trade should be vetoed. If you find there are owners in your league who consistently make moves you dont agree with, quit that league and go play with people who think more like you do. Edited September 29, 2011 by Delicious_bass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Favre4ever Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 We used to vote on trades but after a few years we all talked about it at the draft and came to the conclusion that were all in it to win it and don't mess with how we manage are squads...We have some trades that look iffy being a unlimited keeper league but it seems when a trade looks lopsided it always equals out the next couple of years...And when people first play FF they are usually fresh meat and it's first come first serve..I always B.S. them and say look out for that owner he'll screw you with your pants on and that tightens them up trading.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troublez Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 1 question. If you had Boldin and someone offered you Roddy straight up woild you have taken it or refused because it's unfair to the other teams? Love this answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Fair? Seriously? And who exactly is the arbiter of what "fair" is? You? Actually, yes.... me. We have a "no dumb ass trade" rule. Basically, if I, as a commish, get a bunch of emails about a trade - the White for Boldin one would qualify here, it would get overturned and it would be me pulling that trigger - not a league vote, but again, after people have complained. But it can also be me starting the complaining. You people that say there must only be collusion to overtrun any trade at all are flat out wrong. There absolutely MUST be the ability to reverse a trade that is unfair. And what happens after the fact, whether it woulda worked out or not means nothing. Zero, zilch, nada. I operate on the common sense rule of thumb. You don't play by these rules, you're not in our league - simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 (edited) Actually, yes.... me. You people that say there must only be collusion to overtrun any trade at all are flat out wrong. There absolutely MUST be the ability to reverse a trade that is unfair. And what happens after the fact, whether it woulda worked out or not means nothing. Zero, zilch, nada. I operate on the common sense rule of thumb. This might be the dumbest paragraph that I've ever read on the huddle. So, I offer a trade, that you deem as stupid, lets take Bodlin for White as an example. I try to trade White for Boldin, as I know that White is hurting. You decide that in your ultimate wisdom, that this trade is unfair, and you stop it. Boldin ends up out-scoring White by 100 points, and makes the difference between me making the playoffs, and you think that is o.k. What an f'ng joke that is. Congrats, you run a pathetic fantasy football league, and you are proud of it. Edited October 1, 2011 by Menudo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troublez Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 This might be the dumbest paragraph that I've ever read on the huddle. So, I offer a trade, that you deem as stupid, lets take Bodlin for White as an example. I try to trade White for Boldin, as I know that White is hurting. You decide that in your ultimate wisdom, that this trade is unfair, and you stop it. Boldin ends up out-scoring White by 100 points, and makes the difference between me making the playoffs, and you think that is o.k. What an f'ng joke that is. Congrats, you run a pathetic fantasy football league, and you are proud of it. +1 Glad I'm not in your league. You evaluate trades with your opinion and the power to over turn and mask it as common sense. I call that complete B.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Agent Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 You people that say there must only be collusion to overtrun any trade at all are flat out wrong. There absolutely MUST be the ability to reverse a trade that is unfair. And what happens after the fact, whether it woulda worked out or not means nothing. Zero, zilch, nada. I operate on the common sense rule of thumb. So do you refund money if it doesn't work out the way you speculate it will? I manage my team...no one else. I wouldn't play in a league where my moves were only allowed by commissioner approval or league vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 This might be the dumbest paragraph that I've ever read on the huddle. So, I offer a trade, that you deem as stupid, lets take Bodlin for White as an example. I try to trade White for Boldin, as I know that White is hurting. You decide that in your ultimate wisdom, that this trade is unfair, and you stop it. Boldin ends up out-scoring White by 100 points, and makes the difference between me making the playoffs, and you think that is o.k. What an f'ng joke that is. Congrats, you run a pathetic fantasy football league, and you are proud of it. I like you for the most part. I do. But I could not care less what you think about this. It is not in my ultimate wisdom solely, but rather an unvoted on but discussed consensus. But I am for sure the person who solely goes into MFL and undoes them. In 15 years there may have been two maybe three trades that were undone and they both involved guys fairly new to FF. I'm pretty sure it wouldn;'t be an issue with the stable, competitive ownership we've had for the past several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 So do you refund money if it doesn't work out the way you speculate it will? I manage my team...no one else. I wouldn't play in a league where my moves were only allowed by commissioner approval or league vote. I agree.No one but you manages your team. But if yer an f'ing idiot and it's plain as day to everyone else and it hurts the league as a result, that doesn't work for our guys and as commish, I'll involve myself,. It's easy. Don't be an fing idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 +1 Glad I'm not in your league. You evaluate trades with your opinion and the power to over turn and mask it as common sense. I call that complete B.S. Glad you're not in my league as well. On that much, we agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troublez Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Glad you're not in my league as well. On that much, we agree. From one Fellow Hooiser to another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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