Glabra Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Donnie Edwards, S. Ellis, R.Wayne and Dillon got hosed in the AFC (in Dillon's case, it was simply a #s game I think....as someone else said, you could make a case for Rudi, Droughns, and Taylor, too). I also think Tedy Bruschi is perhaps the most underrated/overlooked defensive player in the league, year in, year out. Again, there's a glut of fine LBs in the AFC – have they just written Ray-Ray's name in there for the next 10 years for fear he might kill them? – but Bruschi should at least be an alternate. He's the heart and soul of that defense, and while it's not as dominating as years past, it's still pretty d@mn tough. 627735[/snapback] good point about {Over}Ray{ted} Lewis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 I too am a bit surprised that Ward got in, but I do not think it is undeserved. Point to all the stats you want - numbers do not reflect the whole picture. Hines is just as valueable on plays in which he does not get the ball as those in which he does. About how many other WRs is that true? Dude is the total package - a complete player who gives 100% on every play. As for Reggie Wayne: please. Plug Scott Mitchell in as the #2 WR in Indy and he'd have similar numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Donnie Edwards. LB - SD Chargers The turn around for the Chrgers D is even more impressive than the accomplishments of the O. Keeping the game close has been the big difference from last year to this! 4 picks, 1 TD, and a force on the field! 626819[/snapback] Oh yeh, and he has more tackles AND picks that R. "I apid my way out of a murder rap" Lewis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glabra Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Oh yeh, and he has more tackles AND picks that R. "I apid my way out of a murder rap" Lewis. 627770[/snapback] In seriousness, it's sickening to me that this guy continues to get in on past reputation, the ESPN hype machine, the intimidiation factor or whatever; while hordes of more deserving LBs sit and watch. He was better when he didn't lose all that weight. Looks like a bulked up safety out there and gets repeatedly punked on run support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauders11 Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 I too am a bit surprised that Ward got in, but I do not think it is undeserved. Point to all the stats you want - numbers do not reflect the whole picture. Hines is just as valueable on plays in which he does not get the ball as those in which he does. About how many other WRs is that true? Dude is the total package - a complete player who gives 100% on every play. As for Reggie Wayne: please. Plug Scott Mitchell in as the #2 WR in Indy and he'd have similar numbers. 627768[/snapback] How about Derrick Mason over Hines? Derrick Mason TEN 88rec. 1055yds. 7TD's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 How about Derrick Mason over Hines? Derrick Mason TEN 88rec. 1055yds. 7TD's 627861[/snapback] Mason is still alive? :bigshock: Perhaps someone should inform Mr. Volek of this fact. To answer your question - I am not really impressed by numbers, and I haven't seen Mason play much this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 but what age the stats were compiled at is pretty much irrelevant to the Pro Bowl ballot. There's also no special weightage for doing well when you aren't expected to. The only bottomline is overall performance, and that's unfortunate sometime..but that's how it is. 627667[/snapback] Regardless of age, Jerome Bettis is the bread and butter (and, dare I say, MVP) of the Steelers' offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted December 23, 2004 Author Share Posted December 23, 2004 As for Reggie Wayne: please. Plug Scott Mitchell in as the #2 WR in Indy and he'd have similar numbers. 627768[/snapback] Hah! I wish it was that easy. Jerome Pathon, E.G. Green, and Qadry Ismail all had their shot as the #2 receiver in the same offense over the years, and none of them even approached Wayne's numbers this year. Hell, Wayne didn't even approach THIS year's numbers, LAST year. He has made incredible improvement through hard work, and is one of the better blocking WR's in the league. He deserves the spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Hah! I wish it was that easy. Jerome Pathon, E.G. Green, and Qadry Ismail all had their shot as the #2 receiver in the same offense over the years, and none of them even approached Wayne's numbers this year. 628189[/snapback] Peyton has taken his game to a whole new level. I credit Peyton more than Wayne for Wayne's numbers. He has made incredible improvement through hard work, and is one of the better blocking WR's in the league. He deserves the spot. 628189[/snapback] Beh. He ain't no Hines Ward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted December 23, 2004 Author Share Posted December 23, 2004 Beh. He ain't no Hines Ward. 628214[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFFL Chump Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Squeegie...me thinks your steelers are showing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Squeegie...me thinks your steelers are showing. 628227[/snapback] Perhaps, perhaps not. I love Hines Ward. He represents all that I love about football. My opinion of him would not change if, heaven forbid, he were ever to play for another team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Perhaps, perhaps not. I love Hines Ward. He represents all that I love about football. My opinion of him would not change if, heaven forbid, he were ever to play for another team. 628260[/snapback] ANOTHER TEAM !!! Why did you have to go and say that, I'm going to have nightmares tonight !!! I agree with your assessment of Hines Ward, but most people don't watch him every play of every game like we do and will never fully appreciate his greatness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 ANOTHER TEAM !!! Why did you have to go and say that, I'm going to have nightmares tonight !!! I agree with your assessment of Hines Ward, but most people don't watch him every play of every game like we do and will never fully appreciate his greatness. 628277[/snapback] I said "heaven forbid" !!!! Besides - I think we're safe as long as I don't buy his jersey. I really want one, but every time I buy a Steeler's jersey, he leaves the next season (Thigpen, Lake, Kirkland), so I have refrained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 I would have like to have seen Wiggins get in at TE for the NFC. I think an argument could be made for him even though he didn't start the entire season (or maybe even because he didn't start the entire season). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudolefty Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Donnie Edwards. LB - SD Chargers The turn around for the Chrgers D is even more impressive than the accomplishments of the O. Keeping the game close has been the big difference from last year to this! 4 picks, 1 TD, and a force on the field! 626819[/snapback] Edwards definitely got jobbed. The SD paper listed stats for AFC linebackers and Edwards is tops in tackles and tied for tops in INTs for those selected above him: (Tackles, Sacks, INTs) Edwards, 136, 0, 4 Lewis, 134, 1, 0 Spikes, 86, 2, 4 Farrior, 84, 3, 4 Suggs, 52, 9.5, 0 Porter, 48, 7, 0 Edwards is an inside LB, so he would've had to beat out rah-rah Lewis or Spikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargerz Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Edwards definitely got jobbed. The SD paper listed stats for AFC linebackers and Edwards is tops in tackles and tied for tops in INTs for those selected above him: (Tackles, Sacks, INTs) Edwards, 136, 0, 4 Lewis, 134, 1, 0 Spikes, 86, 2, 4 Farrior, 84, 3, 4 Suggs, 52, 9.5, 0 Porter, 48, 7, 0 Edwards is an inside LB, so he would've had to beat out rah-rah Lewis or Spikes. 628490[/snapback] I agree. He didn't even get picked as an alternate. I mean, COME ON!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 (edited) Trent Green over Brady. Green has the same # of TD's, 1 less int, a higher QB rating, and like 800 or 900 more yards. So other than his name being Brady what puts him there over Green? Edited December 23, 2004 by giantsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Trent Green over Brady. Green has the same # of TD's, 1 less int, a higher QB rating, and like 800 or 900 more yards. So other than his name being Brady what puts him there over Green? 628544[/snapback] his team wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime9287 Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Rothelisberger should have made it over Brady. Thats an easy one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 (edited) his team wins. 628547[/snapback] I didn't realize that was a category for the pro-bowl team. And you know what it shouldn't be. If you're talking an MVP award then I'd take that into account, but W's and Ls should not be involved when looking at the pro-bowl players IMO. Plus KC has 6 wins and very well may get 8 with NO D. It's not like they are a 2-12 team. Edited December 23, 2004 by giantsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 I didn't realize that was a category for the pro-bowl team. And you know what it shouldn't be. If you're talking an MVP award then I'd take that into account, but W's and Ls should not be involved when looking at the pro-bowl players IMO. 628553[/snapback] Exactly. This is all about the individual, not the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantsfan Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Exactly. This is all about the individual, not the team. 628556[/snapback] Agreed. This is 1 honor if you will that should be about individuals not the team. 99% of the honor's are based very strongly on team performance this shouldn't be. Like Vick shouldn't be there either. What a joke that is. The man CAN NOT PASS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 I didn't realize that was a category for the pro-bowl team. And you know what it shouldn't be. If you're talking an MVP award then I'd take that into account, but W's and Ls should not be involved when looking at the pro-bowl players IMO. Plus KC has 6 wins and very well may get 8 with NO D. It's not like they are a 2-12 team. 628553[/snapback] You asked for the reason and I gave it to you. I don't agree with it, but you know it's why he's there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime9287 Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 his team wins. 628547[/snapback] OK Balzac if that is the reason Brady makes it over green, why doesnt Big Ben make it over Brady?? Lets look at the #s... Brady: 3202 yards, 24 tds, 13 INTs, 90.3 QB Rat., 12-2 record Big Ben: 2400 yards, 15 tds, 10 INTs, 96.3 QB Rat, 12-0 record :doah: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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