WaterMan Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 (edited) EDIT: Fact or Fiction in the title. Vick deserves the highest contract in the NFL. Fact! Just look at what he does for his team. Vick was the better draft pick in the NFL between him and LT. Fact! If you want merchandising, season wins, PLAYOFF wins, and TV time then Vick is the best pick. If you are playing Fantasy Football, then take LT. There's no telling what he can do in the West Coast O if he ever gets a Jerry Rice and TO on his side. At least Atlanta wasn't 1 and Done. Atlanta's running game is all from Vick's legs. Fiction! It's obvious whoever thinks this hasn't watched a single game that Warrick Dunn and TJ Duckett have been in this year. The only way to stop Vick is to break one of his legs. Fact! At least it is until the NFL finds a way to keep stopping him week after week. Vick likes to turn the ball over. Fact! But not many QBs don't turn the ball over. Even legends like Brett Favre have a bad game. Culpepper, anyone? Vick can't throw the ball. Fiction! You mean to say Vick doesn't have a savior WR in TO that McNabb had this season. McNabb did not throw a TD until Week 5 or 6 last season before TO. Edited January 16, 2005 by WaterMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 The thing with Vick is that once the playoffs come, he will not hold back his running, as there is no tomorrow. I have never seen ANYONE run the football like Vick, his burst and athleticism are amazing and enjoyable to watch. I think they are extremely dangerous and they have been my pick from the NFC for quite some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Phenom & myself were talking about Vick in another thread. Here are some of our comments: Geez that guy is so overrated! Honestly he really sucks. Can't fathom how a QB as lousy as he is, gets an invite to the Pro Bowl. It's freakin' a travesty I tell ya. 656470[/snapback] I know! Vick is holding this team down. His throwing is terrible. He isn't making any plays and he's killing drives. Why teams keep saying he's the man to stop I don't know. He's as overrated as they get. I mean the only thing you can possibly say in Vicks defense is that the Falcons win when he plays. But that's a tired a point............ 656480[/snapback] That's just so true phenom. Just imagine how good the FalCANs would be with a real QB, not this hack Vick, that they have masquerading as an NFL QB. Heck the FalCANs would be so much better with guys like Krenzel or even Quinn, because they throw like real NFL QB's are supposed to do, dontcha know. Not this namby pamby rushing and setting NFL play off records for rush yards by a QB. What the heck is that for crying out loud? Don't they know QB's are supposed to throw? For Pete's sake, this has got to stop. We don't see Peyton Manning running around like that now, do we? It's just not PC NFL QB play! I think this off season, the Official Rules Committee should look into it and put a stop to it. Lets face it, with this bum Vick as the FalCANs QB, they'll never do anything. He's really holding them back IMO. I still can't believe the FalCANs gave up LT for this hack. I mean even though the Chargers have yet to win a play off game with LT and have only been to the play offs once since LT joined the team and the FalCANs have made it to the play offs twice and won two play off games so far since Vick joined their team, it's obvious they got shafted in that trade and San Diego came out the winner. I mean Vick is just a flash in the pan, overrated bum. And I don't like his corn rows either. 656490[/snapback] I'd think the FalCANs would be able to give either the Vikes or Eagles a run for their money, if only they had a decent QB. Instead the FalCANs will be at a distinct disadvantage going with that overrated, media created, hack of a QB, Michael Vick. Mora should probably consider putting Schaub in, don't you think? 656598[/snapback] I mean lets face it, Vick sucks. And I'm not alone. Just ask the majority of Huddlers....people like Vatican Hitsquad. He'll tell you just how overrated Vick is and that Reeves and the FalCANs got fleeced by the Chargers, when they gave up the chance to select LT and instead opted for that bum Vick. Mora Jr should strongly consider benching Vick and playing Schaub instead, don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 16, 2005 Author Share Posted January 16, 2005 Yeah I'd play Shaub instead. Winning by 30 points is unacceptable. It should be by at least 70. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 I like Vick and Atlanta. I put all my smackbowl eggs in their basket... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Yeah I'd play Shaub instead. Winning by 30 points is unacceptable. It should be by at least 70.656661[/snapback] Ain't that the truth! Just imagine if the FalCANs played a PC QB who would actually throw the ball. Vick is just another overblown, overrated, media created talentless hack. Vick is truly holding this team back and needs to be benched for Schaub like yesterday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 16, 2005 Author Share Posted January 16, 2005 The only reason the Falcons score is because Mr Rossum takes kick returns and punts back to the opponent's 1 yard line every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 The only reason the Falcons score is because Mr Rossum takes kick returns and punts back to the opponent's 1 yard line every time. 656672[/snapback] okay, now WaterMan, you had a good thing going and then you had to ruin it with this bait...no wonder so many people block you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Messiahs Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Phenom & myself were talking about Vick in another thread. Here are some of our comments:I mean lets face it, Vick sucks. And I'm not alone. Just ask the majority of Huddlers....people like Vatican Hitsquad. He'll tell you just how overrated Vick is and that Reeves and the FalCANs got fleeced by the Chargers, when they gave up the chance to select LT and instead opted for that bum Vick. Mora Jr should strongly consider benching Vick and playing Schaub instead, don't you think? 656607[/snapback] Yeah he sucks so much most defenses hate playing against him! Just him in the pocket will keep some QB spys around the line! And if you stop guarding the line thats when you have him exploding all over your defense! This game is more of a mind game than tactics! Watch Peyton play and call 3-5 audibles at the line just to confuse the defense in what's going on! JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Yeah he sucks so much most defenses hate playing against him! Just him in the pocket will keep some QB spys around the line! And if you stop guarding the line thats when you have him exploding all over your defense! 656678[/snapback] Oh c'mon Shotgun Messiahs, you don't really expect us to buy into that tired old argument "Vick affects the opposing D's game plan", do you? That's almost as limp as the "All the FalCANs do is win when Vick plays" argument. He's an an overrated, media created, QB challenged, talentless hack, who couldn't carry Jake Plummers jock, let alone somebody like Favre, Manning or Culpepper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 I've said that Vick has seemed to be subpar when it comes to the passing game. It's gonna come back to bite the Falcons in the ass if/when they run into an actual D that plays with discipline. And do you deny that he gets a bit much hype for a guy that was up until now 1-1 in the playoffs with one impressive win and one game as the beatdown-ee? For a guy that has yet to crack 3k passing yds in a season? He earned some of his hype yesterday, but from what I saw he still struggles when it comes to the nuances of the QB position other than running. Not to mention that Duckett and Dunn racked up 200 yds rushing on their own - looked to be an inferior St Louis team running up against a better Falcons team more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 I've said that Vick has seemed to be subpar when it comes to the passing game. It's gonna come back to bite the Falcons in the ass if/when they run into an actual D that plays with discipline. And do you deny that he gets a bit much hype for a guy that was up until now 1-1 in the playoffs with one impressive win and one game as the beatdown-ee? For a guy that has yet to crack 3k passing yds in a season? He earned some of his hype yesterday, but from what I saw he still struggles when it comes to the nuances of the QB position other than running. Not to mention that Duckett and Dunn racked up 200 yds rushing on their own - looked to be an inferior St Louis team running up against a better Falcons team more than anything. 656770[/snapback] Absolutely Chavez. The FalCANs didn't win because of Vick, they won in spite of Vick. He's really holding this team back IMO. Mora would be well advised to bench the P.O.S. and play Schaub, who can actually throw like a PC NFL QB should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Absolutely Chavez. The FalCANs didn't win because of Vick, they won in spite of Vick. He's really holding this team back IMO. Mora would be well advised to bench the P.O.S. and play Schaub, who can actually throw like a PC NFL QB should. 656779[/snapback] Big Score 1, I am no stranger to sarcasm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 (edited) Big Score 1, I am no stranger to sarcasm.... 656784[/snapback] Shhhhhhhhh...... Edited January 16, 2005 by Big Score 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Mora would be well advised to bench the P.O.S. and play Schaub, who can actually throw like a PC NFL QB should. 656779[/snapback] Since you put it that way, perhaps I should take into account my own sigline.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Since you put it that way, perhaps I should take into account my own sigline.... 656793[/snapback] Touche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glabra Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 The truth, as always, lies somewhere in-between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 I've said that Vick has seemed to be subpar when it comes to the passing game. It's gonna come back to bite the Falcons in the ass if/when they run into an actual D that plays with discipline. He earned some of his hype yesterday, but from what I saw he still struggles when it comes to the nuances of the QB position other than running. 656770[/snapback] Actually Chavez does bring up a completely legitimate point here. The two games this year where the FalCANs were getting blown out and them getting back in the game was dependent on Vick and his passing skills, he indeed failed the litmus test. I'm referring to the KC & 2nd Tampa games. Possibly his deficiency in progressing as a passer can be attributed to changing offensive philosophies and basically a wasted season last year. The kid has only really had two full seasons as a starting QB and each time he was learning / playing in different offenses. However, if we see no incremental progression to his passing game next year, in a continuous offensive system, then I think we can say that he is actually a deficient QB traditionally, whose superb running skills offset his lack of passing ability. After all, Vick will have had two years in a row in the same system and I think the kid Jenkins will come along next year as well, mitigating the argument of a lack of WR talent (which has been legit BTW). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 I like Vick and Atlanta. I put all my smackbowl eggs in their basket... 656664[/snapback] Me too. Well, at least most of them. Vick lags far behid many other QBs in his abiity to be a traditional QB, i.e. throwing the ball. I think there is little doubt that he is the best athlete in the league, and that athletic ability allows him to succeed playing the QB position in a non-traditional way. Does that make him overrated? Depends on how you look at it. One thing I do know - if he's not able to improve his passing (which would be easier if he had better receivers), he's not going to have a very long NFL career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 (edited) This argument AGAIN? What is with the obsession to try to convince other people that they should share your opinion of Vick? I don't get it. Edited January 16, 2005 by Savage Beatings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 No other quarterback in the NFL has more fumbles this season than Vick FACT - He had seven. No one has more and there were 77 quarterbacks that played this year and had less. Vick does not throw many interceptions FICTION - Of quarterbacks that played at least 10 games this year, Vick threw an interception once in every 26 passes which ranked him as 6th worst, ahead of only Feeley, Palmer, Testaverde, Collins and Plummer. For comparison, Culpepper only threw one interception every 49 passes, almost twice as good as Vick. Vick can throw as well as a real NFL quarterback FICTION - Of the 30 QBs with at least 10 games played, Vick was 5th worst at passing completions (53%). Vick is not a gimmick nor the product of being a High School quarteback that never evolved into more than just a running back that takes the snap. FICTION - He is. Of the 30 quarterbacks in the NFL with at least 10 games played, he ranks dead last in completions to wide receivers, yardage to wide receivers and touchdowns to wide receivers. When the Falcons play a team that sports a good defense, all they can hope for is for Vick to run well. He cannot throw to more than a TE or RB (and even RB is slight) - how can you manage a comeback when you do not have the luxury of running the RB and QB and need to throw downfield? Vick is a great fantasy QB in the games he faces bad defenses (for the most part) but as an NFL QB against top teams? He's just another RB to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverines Fan Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 No other quarterback in the NFL has more fumbles this season than Vick FACT - He had seven. No one has more and there were 77 quarterbacks that played this year and had less. Vick does not throw many interceptions FICTION - Of quarterbacks that played at least 10 games this year, Vick threw an interception once in every 26 passes which ranked him as 6th worst, ahead of only Feeley, Palmer, Testaverde, Collins and Plummer. For comparison, Culpepper only threw one interception every 49 passes, almost twice as good as Vick. Vick can throw as well as a real NFL quarterback FICTION - Of the 30 QBs with at least 10 games played, Vick was 5th worst at passing completions (53%). Vick is not a gimmick nor the product of being a High School quarteback that never evolved into more than just a running back that takes the snap. FICTION - He is. Of the 30 quarterbacks in the NFL with at least 10 games played, he ranks dead last in completions to wide receivers, yardage to wide receivers and touchdowns to wide receivers. When the Falcons play a team that sports a good defense, all they can hope for is for Vick to run well. He cannot throw to more than a TE or RB (and even RB is slight) - how can you manage a comeback when you do not have the luxury of running the RB and QB and need to throw downfield? Vick is a great fantasy QB in the games he faces bad defenses (for the most part) but as an NFL QB against top teams? He's just another RB to stop. 656834[/snapback] Great analysis, DMD. This sums up why I've never drafted Vick and why I never will draft Vick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Great analysis, DMD. This sums up why I've never drafted Vick and why I never will draft Vick. 656839[/snapback] Vick is not a great fantasy football QB, but he is a great QB. I don't see how anyone can deny his success when this team cannot win without him, but wins at a great pace when he is on the field. I don't think that is a coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glabra Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 This is a little unfair. You point out that he has more fumbles than any other QB, but you don't account for the fact that he runs much more than any other QB. On the other hand, you present his INT stats with respect to his attempts. Let's apply similar standards here. Also, do you think the fact that he doesn't throw much to WR's has anything to do with the fact that Peerless freakin' Price is his number 1 target? No other quarterback in the NFL has more fumbles this season than Vick FACT - He had seven. No one has more and there were 77 quarterbacks that played this year and had less. Vick does not throw many interceptions FICTION - Of quarterbacks that played at least 10 games this year, Vick threw an interception once in every 26 passes which ranked him as 6th worst, ahead of only Feeley, Palmer, Testaverde, Collins and Plummer. For comparison, Culpepper only threw one interception every 49 passes, almost twice as good as Vick. Vick can throw as well as a real NFL quarterback FICTION - Of the 30 QBs with at least 10 games played, Vick was 5th worst at passing completions (53%). Vick is not a gimmick nor the product of being a High School quarteback that never evolved into more than just a running back that takes the snap. FICTION - He is. Of the 30 quarterbacks in the NFL with at least 10 games played, he ranks dead last in completions to wide receivers, yardage to wide receivers and touchdowns to wide receivers. When the Falcons play a team that sports a good defense, all they can hope for is for Vick to run well. He cannot throw to more than a TE or RB (and even RB is slight) - how can you manage a comeback when you do not have the luxury of running the RB and QB and need to throw downfield? Vick is a great fantasy QB in the games he faces bad defenses (for the most part) but as an NFL QB against top teams? He's just another RB to stop. 656834[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverines Fan Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 (edited) Vick is not a great fantasy football QB, but he is a great QB. I don't see how anyone can deny his success when this team cannot win without him, but wins at a great pace when he is on the field. I don't think that is a coincidence. 656845[/snapback] I have to respectfully disagree. When I think of great passers in the NFL, I think of Manning, Culpepper, Favre and T. Green. I'm sure there are a few others. Vick is not a great passer. He is barely an average passer when he plays against a good defense, and I'm being kind. He does not belong in the team photo with those other guys. If he can improve his passing skills, I'll change my opinion of him. Vick is not a great fantasy QB and overall, he is a slightly above average NFL QB who can run very well. Edited January 16, 2005 by Wolverines Fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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