Hugh 0ne Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 (edited) http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/sto...gene&id=2635618 You gotta be kidding me. Those pictures are pretty hard to explain, wouldn't you say? No wonder a guy who's going to be 42 in a few weeks is pitching like a 20 year old stud. Thoughts? Also, his performance in the previous series was a pretty big reason why they won, doesn't this tarnish that? Also, let's take it a step further, if it's true, why not disqualify the Tigers and give the AL Championship to the Yankees? I mean, his pitching was a big reason the Tigers beat the Yanks, and if he cheated, his wins shouldn't be allowed. I know I'm going a bit overboard, but just wanted to spark some discussion. Edited October 23, 2006 by Hugh 0ne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiley Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I doubt there will be a disqualification but it all seemed a little fishy to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 the gambler washed his hand off after the 1st..... what was the cardinals excuse for not hitting him the rest of the game........? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Classic baseball. Forget the roids, cheat like the REAL ballplayers did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefjay Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 (edited) Classic baseball. Forget the roids, cheat like the REAL ballplayers did. Does everyone think Football is clean or something? Another guy got suspended today for roids, last years ROY in fact. Give me a break. Every sport cheats. Oh and to address the topic at hand. Not sure what he was doing. I don't think he would leave that on his hand knowingly when he knows 2 million people are watching and about 10 camera angles. I think he was using it in the pen to get a better grip on the ball? Who knows but DMARC is right, he didn't have it on there after the 1st and I don't think anyone saw anything in the Yankee or A's games. It's very hard for pitchers to cheat these days. The umpire touches and looks at almost every ball because they throw out every ball that touches the dirt. Just my two cents. Edited October 23, 2006 by chiefjay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 But nobody checked the OTHER hand. Go Cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down Goes Frazia Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 IMO....that was no doubt pine tar on his palm.... and Steve Palermo calls it a chunk of dirt. I umpired 185 games this past summer and was around that stuff day in day out for 7 months. I've seen pitchers try to use it more than once. Remember too... rogers had it on his palm the previous two starts.... nothing was said of it until now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Does everyone think Football is clean or something? Another guy got suspended today for roids, last years ROY in fact. Give me a break. Every sport cheats. Oh and to address the topic at hand. Not sure what he was doing. I don't think he would leave that on his hand knowingly when he knows 2 million people are watching and about 10 camera angles. I think he was using it in the pen to get a better grip on the ball? Who knows but DMARC is right, he didn't have it on there after the 1st and I don't think anyone saw anything in the Yankee or A's games. It's very hard for pitchers to cheat these days. The umpire touches and looks at almost every ball because they throw out every ball that touches the dirt. Just my two cents. LOL, I was being serious...this form of 'cheating' has been going on in baseball since it's inception. Call me hipocritical, but I have no problem with doing it the old fashioned way. I do think there is a difference because anybody can do it as long as they can get away with it & I would bet that most pitchers do cheat this way at some point. With roids a player has to choose to take something that is not only illegal, but is also very detrimental to his health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I was wondering where this thread was last night. It was obvious to me and the guys watching the game with me that there was pine tar on his palm. The announcers pointed it out during the first inning and we all said, "I bet you it's not there after this inning" and boom it was gone. Kenny was flat out lying through his teeth during the postgame interview with his, "clump of dirt" explanation. It's an unspoken part of baseball. Many pitchers do things like this which doesn't make it okay. I found it funny as hell to watch him squirm during questioning. Funny thing is, the first inning was easily his worst. He had to pitch out of a jam in that inning but breezed through the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Oh and the radio guys this morning were referring to yesterday as "Palm Sunday" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 (edited) IMO....that was no doubt pine tar on his palm.... and Steve Palermo calls it a chunk of dirt. I umpired 185 games this past summer and was around that stuff day in day out for 7 months. I've seen pitchers try to use it more than once. Remember too... rogers had it on his palm the previous two starts.... nothing was said of it until now. We were laughing our asses off this AM at this pic. You can clearly see pine tar on both his hand & the ball. Edited October 23, 2006 by rajncajn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Wait...you mean they didn't cancel the World Series??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefjay Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 LOL, I was being serious...this form of 'cheating' has been going on in baseball since it's inception. Call me hipocritical, but I have no problem with doing it the old fashioned way. I do think there is a difference because anybody can do it as long as they can get away with it & I would bet that most pitchers do cheat this way at some point. With roids a player has to choose to take something that is not only illegal, but is also very detrimental to his health. Gotcha, makes sense now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 The "everyone does it, it's OK to cheat" explanation is bullsh*t. Why even have rules then. If he cheated, he should be severely punished. That would send a message that cheating is not OK, and cheaters will not be tolerated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Gotcha, makes sense now. I'll add that I do not condone cheating. However, I know that they all do it in some form and if there is any cheating being done I'd prefer to see it done the old fashioned way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 i think it stinks ...and it opens up questions on how exactly he did so well his first two starts in playoffs ...i mean no doubt it takes more than some pine tar to throw so well for that many innings but no doubt a little confidence gained by starting off a game well on the mound can help for the rest of the game ...pitching has alot to do with confidence ...really should not have much to do with pine tar and cheating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Who cares it's baseball. The only sport I watch where an interpreter is required at the post game interviews is boxing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down Goes Frazia Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 this isn't like corking a bat...... or putting vasoline on the ball. Pitchers are allowed one substance to give them better grip on the ball.... that's a rosin bag. when the ball get wet they absolutely need it. Pine tar is the substance batters get to use for the very same reason.. albeit for holding a bat. It just happens that some pitchers prefer pine tar to rosin when pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Here's a point nobody has brought up re: the 'clump of dirt' excuse: has anyone known a top pitcher to allow something like a clump of dirt to remain on his pitching hand unawares while in one of the biggest starts of his life?? I didn't think so.... I remember reading that Nolan Ryan used to scrape/sand all the fingerprints off his pitching hand to make the ball 'feel like a bullet'. These guys know exactly what is going on for every second with their moneymakers, so to speak... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Here's the deal... he cheated... he "kind of" got caught... he lied about it... but bottom line, this one is in the books and nothing will change the outcome of last night's game. He got away with it. And I'm willing to bet that we will never again see pine tar on Kenny Rogers' hand. The Cards are idiots for not catching it and then doing something about it. The Umps are idiots for catching it and then not doing something about it. And Rogers is an idiot for not being able to be a man and admit the truth, that he is a cheater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefjay Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Here's a point nobody has brought up re: the 'clump of dirt' excuse: has anyone known a top pitcher to allow something like a clump of dirt to remain on his pitching hand unawares while in one of the biggest starts of his life?? I didn't think so.... I think we all thought of this but the excuse was so rediculous that it almost didn't warrant a response. I thought maybe he had it on there in his bull pen session to get a better grip but now my argument doesn't even really hold water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 In this case, I'm willing to bet it's a tar over rosin thing for a better grip. Pine tar does NOT give a pitcher an advantage the way a grease or vaseline would. Still, a foreign substance is a foreign substance and the proper course would have been an inspection, expulsion if necessary followed by a suspension. This isn't the same as steroids, but if you get busted, you're busted. I find the "official explanations" sketchier than the pics - those seem pretty cut and dried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Amazing, someone in baseball cheating? what a joke... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 hmmm maybe it was poop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 hmmm maybe it was poop LOL. Then he would've said, "Yeah, I couldn't smell it, cuz my allergies are acting up a bit. But some of the other guys pointed it out to me after the first inning, while holding their noses. So I just wiped it off before the 2nd..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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