Eli Manning versus Frank Gore

[Caveman_Nick]

Recently in a draft I was in a position that was created by my team needs to choose between Eli Manning and Frank Gore. It wasn't quite my pick yet, but I was fairly certain that both players would be available.

 

All along, leading up to the pick I kept on thinking that I would pick Gore. This is pre-Barlow trade FWIW. There he was sitting in the rankings as what looked like the best RB available.

 

Then my pick came up. It was the 4th round of a 17 team league, and this was the 61st pick at the time. Gore was ranked lower than Manning IIRC according to the Huddle rankings, but I was trying to be 'smart with my pick'.

 

I took Manning and was happy about it.

 

Today I see the news that Barlow is traded. Frank Gore has shot up in the rankings, and is now significantly higher than Eli. I won't get into the numbers (you have to pay for that stuff ), but it did get me thinking as to how we as supposedly expert FF owners sometimes get caught up in FF stigmas.

 

Last season Gore and Barlow combined for 194 fantasy points in a 1/10 RuYd/ReYd, 6 pts all TDs, no penalty for fumbles league. Eli Manning scored 277.48 points in that same format, with 1/25 PaYd and -2 per INT.

 

Now, Gore is the starting back on SF for sure, but I ask you....how is a guy that is running on 2 reconstructed knees and on a really bad offense, and who has never 'done it' in the NFL valued higher than a guy that will easily be a top 5 QB and that was a top 10 overall scorer in most formats of Fantasy Football last year?

 

Gore is really a metaphor here. Maybe he will be a top 10 player this year. It's anyone's guess, really. He could be Emmitt Smith II for all we know. Gore could be Mike Bell, Reggie Bush, Cedric Benson, Roy Williams, etc., in this discussion. I just wonder what we think sometimes when we are ranking players (NOT a knock on DMD....I am sure that many people have similar things in their rankings!)

 

When the season is in swing, I really wonder what will look like the better choice?

[CaptainHook]

I think you made the right choice. I wouldn't of even thought twice about it. Even now.

 

I have a disdain for runningbacks on really bad teams.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

I know DMD favors RBs over QBs because it's almost impossible to win a title without good RBs. Obviously, the difference between the #1 and #12 QBs is a lot less than it would be for RBs (especially when you start 2 or more).

 

I'm not saying anything revolutionary here, but you asked.

[piratesownninjas]

Now, Gore is the starting back on SF for sure, but I ask you....how is a guy that is running on 2 reconstructed knees and on a really bad offense, and who has never 'done it' in the NFL valued higher than a guy that will easily be a top 5 QB and that was a top 10 overall scorer in most formats of Fantasy Football last year?

 

 

The knees have held up for two straight years. Modern medecine is changing the way we need to view knee injuries...

I'll take a potential top 10 back over a top 5 quarterback any day of the week.. Thats just me though. I ride the Runningbacks win championships bandwagon.

[Caveman_Nick]

The knees have held up for two straight years. Modern medecine is changing the way we need to view knee injuries...

I'll take a potential top 10 back over a top 5 quarterback any day of the week.. Thats just me though. I ride the Runningbacks win championships bandwagon.

 

 

 

but do you really think Gore has a chance to get near the top 10 in RBs running for the 9ers?

[CaptainHook]

but do you really think Gore has a chance to get near the top 10 in RBs running for the 9ers?

 

absolutely not

[blips]

Your missing the real problem here. Your drafting too early. Fantasy drafts should not take place until after the 3rd preason game.

[Pope Flick]

Gore's best bet is ti be a solid #10-15 type RB. In other words, the best you could realistically hope for is a stron #2RB. Wanting anything more, given his situation is being unrealistic/pie in the sky.

 

Whether or not Eli was the better pick can be found in your backfield depth. Did you eventually get a sloid #2 RB? If so, then you did fine.

[samurai30]

yeah...gore is a #3 RB type...no higher then that. The niner offense won't be very good this year..they are still learning with Alex smith.

[Caveman_Nick]

Gore's best bet is ti be a solid #10-15 type RB. In other words, the best you could realistically hope for is a stron #2RB. Wanting anything more, given his situation is being unrealistic/pie in the sky.

 

Whether or not Eli was the better pick can be found in your backfield depth. Did you eventually get a sloid #2 RB? If so, then you did fine.

 

 

 

I am not sure it really matters...my team really has nothing to do with it. I am more looking at player value.

 

Look at it another way...

 

Eli Manning may only be x% better than some other QB, but he also has a very low bust factor. Frank Gore might be good value in round 3 as an RB2, but I would put his bust factor at over 50%, and maybe around 70%.

 

It's just opinion, but that's the way I see it. Had I only been smart enough to apply bust factors to players last year before I got hooked into Kevin Jones

[Pope Flick]

I am not sure it really matters...my team really has nothing to do with it. I am more looking at player value.

 

 

 

But all things are relative. On a 'blank slate" it's hard to say and kind of pointless to debate. The question of his value come into focus when he's put with other player's, their ups and downs, bye weeks etc.

 

Does Frank Gore have more or less value if the other RB is SA, and you got Eli Manning OR is it greater if you have SA, you grabbed Reggie Wayne and got Delhomme later?

[Caveman_Nick]

Based on the SOFA classic draft, I felt the need to edit this:

 

 

Recently in a draft I was in a position that was created by my team needs to choose between Eli Peyton Manning and Frank Gore. It wasn't quite my pick yet, but I was fairly certain that both players would be available.

 

All along, leading up to the pick I kept on thinking that I would pick Gore. This is pre-Barlow trade FWIW. There he was sitting in the rankings as what looked like the best RB available.

 

Then my pick came up. It was the 4th round of a 17 team league, and this was the 61st pick at the time. Gore was ranked lower than Manning IIRC according to the Huddle rankings, but I was trying to be 'smart with my pick'.

 

I took Manning and was happy about it.

 

Today I see the news that Barlow is traded. Frank Gore has shot up in the rankings, and is now significantly higher than Eli. I won't get into the numbers (you have to pay for that stuff ), but it did get me thinking as to how we as supposedly expert FF owners sometimes get caught up in FF stigmas.

 

Last season Gore and Barlow combined for 194 fantasy points in a 1/10 RuYd/ReYd, 6 pts all TDs, no penalty for fumbles league. Eli Peyton Manning scored 277.48 348.35 points in that same format, with 1/25 PaYd and -2 per INT.

 

Now, Gore is the starting back on SF for sure, but I ask you....how is a guy that is running on 2 reconstructed knees and on a really bad offense, and who has never 'done it' in the NFL valued higher than a guy that will easily be a top 5 QB and that was a top 10 overall scorer in most formats of Fantasy Football last year?

 

Gore is really a metaphor here. Maybe he will be a top 10 player this year. It's anyone's guess, really. He could be Emmitt Smith II for all we know. Gore could be Mike Bell, Reggie Bush, Cedric Benson, Roy Williams, etc., in this discussion. I just wonder what we think sometimes when we are ranking players (NOT a knock on DMD....I am sure that many people have similar things in their rankings!)

 

When the season is in swing, I really wonder what will look like the better choice?

 

[Possum Jenkins]

 

Last season Gore and Barlow combined for 194 fantasy points in a 1/10 RuYd/ReYd, 6 pts all TDs, no penalty for fumbles league. Eli Manning scored 277.48 points in that same format, with 1/25 PaYd and -2 per INT.

 

Now, Gore is the starting back on SF for sure, but I ask you....how is a guy that is running on 2 reconstructed knees and on a really bad offense, and who has never 'done it' in the NFL valued higher than a guy that will easily be a top 5 QB and that was a top 10 overall scorer in most formats of Fantasy Football last year?

 

Gore is really a metaphor here. Maybe he will be a top 10 player this year. It's anyone's guess, really. He could be Emmitt Smith II for all we know. Gore could be Mike Bell, Reggie Bush, Cedric Benson, Roy Williams, etc., in this discussion. I just wonder what we think sometimes when we are ranking players (NOT a knock on DMD....I am sure that many people have similar things in their rankings!)

 

When the season is in swing, I really wonder what will look like the better choice?

 

 

 

While Gore is still an unknown commodity in terms of toting the rock full time, it still boils down to relative value. A back with the potential to score 194 fantasy points can be more valuable than a quarterback that can score 277 points depending on your alternatives at those positions. The quarterbacks typically are bunched together more tightly than the running backs (because there is no dreaded QBBC). The dropoff in RB production is much more pronounced.

[Caveman_Nick]

While Gore is still an unknown commodity in terms of toting the rock full time, it still boils down to relative value. A back with the potential to score 194 fantasy points can be more valuable than a quarterback that can score 277 points depending on your alternatives at those positions. The quarterbacks typically are bunched together more tightly than the running backs (because there is no dreaded QBBC). The dropoff in RB production is much more pronounced.

 

 

 

In what universe is Frank Gore more valuable than Peyton Manning?

[Vet]

I'd pick Al Gore before I ever took Frank Gore.

 

The 49ers are the only team us Jets fans can make fun of!

[mitpdub]

Gore's a stud, and for a 4th round pick a steal. The O line this year is significanlty better than last year with Larry Allen and a health J.Jennings back. The O line hasn't allowed a sack and actually now has some depth. I wouldn't be worried about Gore's legs as much as his shoulders, but if he can finish the year without injury he will do well. Norvell Turner appears to have an improved offense from Mccarthy, and brings in the power running game, H back and the deep ball. The other reason why I like Gore, I kept him as a keeper in my BOTH league and only had to lose a 12th round pick

[Caveman_Nick]

Gore's a stud, and for a 4th round pick a steal. The O line this year is significanlty better than last year with Larry Allen and a health J.Jennings back. The O line hasn't allowed a sack and actually now has some depth. I wouldn't be worried about Gore's legs as much as his shoulders, but if he can finish the year without injury he will do well. Norvell Turner appears to have an improved offense from Mccarthy, and brings in the power running game, H back and the deep ball. The other reason why I like Gore, I kept him as a keeper in my BOTH league and only had to lose a 12th round pick

 

 

Nice SF logo there

 

On what non-homerism basis can you claim that Gore is a stud? What has he done to earn a 'stud' label?

 

Is he more valuable on a fantasy team than Peyton Manning?

[Jo]

Based on my rankings, yes he's more valuable than Eli. So yes, I'd take him ahead of Eli. I don't know how you make the arguement he's more valuable than Peyton though. I saw that SOFA draft too...we'll just say I don't agree with that.

[admtahoe]

Everyone continues to trash the Niners like they are some unwanted step child. Yes it is true they stink now, but they are much improved over last year. No only can you not look at new players and player moves, but you have several players who were injured early last year.

 

Im not saying they'll make the playoffs but I would guarantee they win more games than last year.

 

The will surprise a few teams this year, and even those games that they lose, they will still score points. As a Fantasy Footballer, that is all I am concerned with is the point aspect to the game.

 

Bryant has an opportunity this year that could actually make him a decent #3 WR

 

Im not convinced about the new TE situation but you can guarantee it will be utilized heavily.

 

As for the RB situation, SF has always attempted to run the ball, and now that Gore is that man, he will attempt to prove the doubters wrong. Is it impossible for him to be among the 10 best backs this year? I don't think so. Now you're saying I flipped my rocker, but wait.

 

We all know who the current 10 top backs are based off of last year's stats. Of those top 10, Barber is older, Jackson, Portis, Westbrook have injury issues.

 

E. James has a new team with a bad O-line, McGahee's whole team sucks, J. Jones will lose carries to Barber

 

So I would say it is not impossible for him to be a top 10, he will be a feature back which as we all know is becoming fewer and fewer these days.

 

I would def want him as a #2 or #3 back without question.

 

Too many NFL teams and Fantasy Fanatics alike look at SF as a joke, and that is why they will win more games and surprise a few. I've been wrong before and may be wrong again, but Gore has a huge upside in my book.

 

Yes Im a fan of the Niners, but I also look at things realistically.

[Possum Jenkins]

In what universe is Frank Gore more valuable than Peyton Manning?

 

 

 

I wouldn't take him before Peyton. You're original question and the title of this thread concerned Eli, not Peyton, and in my opinion that is a choice that requires a heck of a lot more thought than Peyton vs. Gore.

 

Not to mention that all of this depends on each individual situation (scoring method, who has already been drafted, do you have any protects or keepers held over from the previous year). The decision can't be made in a vacuum.

[Wooters]

While Gore is still an unknown commodity in terms of toting the rock full time, it still boils down to relative value. A back with the potential to score 194 fantasy points can be more valuable than a quarterback that can score 277 points depending on your alternatives at those positions. The quarterbacks typically are bunched together more tightly than the running backs (because there is no dreaded QBBC). The dropoff in RB production is much more pronounced.

 

 

 

^ Best post in this thread.

 

4th round, Frank Gore (pre-trade) v.s. Eli Manning. I don't even think about it and take Frank Gore every day of the week. The one thing that seems to be lost in the majority of fantasy players is value not who scores more points. The reason why it isn't absolute is because you are comparing two players at two different positions. The RB position is by far the most scarce and therefoe one of higher value (in general). In the 4th round, when the majority of the decent RB's are already gone, there are a plethora of good QB's that are available in the next 4-5 rounds. What RB are you going to be able to draft 4-5 rounds later? A starter? Nope. Once that comes close to obtaining stats similar to the top 10? Nope. However that just isn't the case with QB's. You could have waited until the 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th or even 10th round a grabbed someone like Jake Plummer or Aaron Brooks. Those players, while aren' tbig names will put up stats that are pretty darn close to top ten.

 

The point differential between the top RB's and the top QB's made this decision to draft Frank Gore easy.

 

Now Peyton Manning is a different story...

[blips]

Now Peyton Manning is a different story...

 

 

Is it?

 

In my two leagues last year Peyton and Eli scored:

 

Eli 268

Peyton 279

11 point difference and that is .688/wk that Peyton out scored Eli

 

Eli 205 pts

Peyton 205 pts

23 point difference and that is 1.438/wk that Peyton out scored Eli

 

not very much

Edited August 24, 2006 by blips

[Possum Jenkins]

Is it?

 

In my two leagues last year Peyton and Eli scored:

 

Eli 268

Peyton 279

11 point difference and that is .688/wk that Peyton out scored Eli

 

Eli 205 pts

Peyton 205 pts

23 point difference and that is 1.438/wk that Peyton out scored Eli

 

not very much

 

 

Which just underscores the fact that there are a lot of variables involved, but the one that doesn't change is that starting RBs are just a heck of a lot more valuable than starting QBs, unless Manning goes off for 49 TD's again.

 

I'd still take Peyton ahead of Gore (because Peyton is a known commodity that has the potential to light it up), but there aren't any other QB's this year that I would take before Gore if he's still available as late as the 4th round.

[Caveman_Nick]

^ Best post in this thread.

 

4th round, Frank Gore (pre-trade) v.s. Eli Manning. I don't even think about it and take Frank Gore every day of the week. The one thing that seems to be lost in the majority of fantasy players is value not who scores more points. The reason why it isn't absolute is because you are comparing two players at two different positions. The RB position is by far the most scarce and therefoe one of higher value (in general). In the 4th round, when the majority of the decent RB's are already gone, there are a plethora of good QB's that are available in the next 4-5 rounds. What RB are you going to be able to draft 4-5 rounds later? A starter? Nope. Once that comes close to obtaining stats similar to the top 10? Nope. However that just isn't the case with QB's. You could have waited until the 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th or even 10th round a grabbed someone like Jake Plummer or Aaron Brooks. Those players, while aren' tbig names will put up stats that are pretty darn close to top ten.

 

The point differential between the top RB's and the top QB's made this decision to draft Frank Gore easy.

 

Now Peyton Manning is a different story...

 

 

 

So again I'll point out that Frank Gore is not a top RB. He's an injury prone RB running on 2 reconstructed knees on the worst offense in the NFL. Sure, he's now 'the starter'.

 

The concept of 'value' isn't lost upon me. At the end of the season, when 25% of the players drafted higher than E Manning are roughly as 'valuable' as a used toiletry, then we can talk about value.

 

I think what all of the 'Must Draft Runningbacks!' lemmings miss is the concept of 'bust factor'. Anyone worth their FF salt understands the value of getting a good consistant RB.

 

How did Kevin Jones work out last year? Or Julius? Jamal Lewis? Ahman Green? Look at the top 50 picks and see how many busts there were last year, particularly relative to the player's draft position. 25% + of the top 20 picks were busts including Peyton Manning (only of course because too many people went wacky greedy and expected 50 TDs).

 

Draft players that will earn points worthy of their draft position. IMO That's just as important as drafting for positional value.

[wildcat2334]

In the 4th rd of a 17 team league- I take Gore over Eli, wouldn't be happy about it- but Gore in the 4th is good spot IMO.

 

SOFA- Gore in the 2nd is awful. Forget Manning, which is obvious, but the run of the next 3 (at least) RB were all much stronger picks than Gore, all with much more upside as well. Just looking at the draft and seeing Gore's name above PManning .

 

You could make a strong case for M Bell over Gore.