Bronco Billy Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 (edited) Why don't you tell us how many? Lots of teams would consider getting to the conference championship some kind of a great feat especially with a 4th year QB. So your argument is essentially that Vick is better than Boller, Harrington, et al? Or should we start making Vick/Manning comparisons? Um, okay....... Edited October 23, 2006 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 So your argument is essentially that Vick is better than Boller, Harrington, et al? Or should we start making Vick/Manning comparisons? Um, okay....... Hmmm...the point is that Vick is unquestionably more successful than most NFL quarterbacks past and present. Be honest, if you were starting a new franchise how many QB's would you consider before Vick? Nuff said... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 As a long-time "Vick-hater" in this forum, I give him credit for a great job yesterday. Now, if he could only have 10 games like this each season, he might be worth his $100 million contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Hmmm...the point is that Vick is unquestionably more successful than most NFL quarterbacks past and present. Be honest, if you were starting a new franchise how many QB's would you consider before Vick? Nuff said... If I wanted to sell tickets or if I wanted to win a championship? If you're talking about the latter I'd say about 20-25 QBs currently playing in the NFL including Vick's backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 (edited) Be honest, if you were starting a new franchise how many QB's would you consider before Vick? Just off the top of my head? Peyton Manning Tom Brady Donovan McNabb Jake Delhomme Trent Green Mark Bulger Rex Grossman Eli Manning Carson Palmer Matt Hasselbeck David Rivers Drew Brees Matt Leinart Jay Cutler Vince Young Jon Kitna Chad Pennington Kelly Clemens Ryan Fitzpatrick Dan Orlovsky Tony Romo Kelly Clemens Matt Schaub and that list precludes guys like Brad Johnson, Brett Favre, & Steve McNair because of their age and that we're starting a new franchise. Edited October 23, 2006 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 How the hell do we know that ... had Harrison been on Atlanta for the duration of Vick's career Harrison's numbers would be 20% of what they are now. Vick is a horrible passer. Vick is not in a "pass happy offense" because he can't pass. --- Vick's style (relying on his legs) wins regular season games, and loses in the playoffs. If that floats your boat so be it ... No Blitz, Vick is not in a pass friendly offense, nor has he ever been, because of his Coaches. Dan Reeves has never in his Coaching career EVER run a pass friendly offense, (regardless of who his QB was). Greg Knapp is an idiot offensive coordinator who does stupid crap like throwing his players under the bus, to save his job - Florio was also told that, on Monday, owner Arthur Blank summoned Donatell and Knapp to his office, and that Blank wouldn't allow Mora inside the room until Blank had a chance to talk with them. After the four men met, Knapp was angry -- and word is that Knapp is openly blaming the performance of the offense on the limited passing skills of Vick. Vick openly lobbied for the offensive passing game to be opened up a bit and we saw the result. Wonder who Knapp throws under the bus next time? To say Harrison's number would be 20% less if Vick were his QB, is extremely ignorant. Put Vick in an offense that takes advanyage of his strengths in the passing game (the long ball) and I'd bet you with Harrison's skills at getting seperation & route running, combined with Vick's long ball, he would be leading the league in yards per reception by a huge margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 (edited) Hmmm...the point is that Vick is unquestionably more successful than most NFL quarterbacks past and present. Be honest, if you were starting a new franchise how many QB's would you consider before Vick? Nuff said... Now what type of franchise would this be that Vick would be joining? With decent WRs and a decent line, with a horrible line and crap WRs as he has presently, or all the talent in the world around him like Manning/Ben/Palmer/Hass have? Edited October 23, 2006 by WaterMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 (edited) No Blitz, Vick is not in a pass friendly offense, nor has he ever been, because of his Coaches. Dan Reeves has never in his Coaching career EVER run a pass friendly offense, (regardless of who his QB was). Greg Knapp is an idiot offensive coordinator who does stupid crap like throwing his players under the bus, to save his job - Vick openly lobbied for the offensive passing game to be opened up a bit and we saw the result. Wonder who Knapp throws under the bus next time? To say Harrison's number would be 20% less if Vick were his QB, is extremely ignorant. Put Vick in an offense that takes advanyage of his strengths in the passing game (the long ball) and I'd bet you with Harrison's skills at getting seperation & route running, combined with Vick's long ball, he would be leading the league in yards per reception by a huge margin. Why don't we see if he can reproduce some success - and I'm not saying 240+ yds & 4 TDs, I'm talking 190+ yds passing, 2 TDs, & less INTs than TDs - before we annoint Vick a great QB, shall we? A reproducable result is called a trait. An unreproducable result is called a fluke. (Hint - Vick has only put up or exceeded that combination of numbers I used 7 times in his 64 games as a pro). Edited October 23, 2006 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Why don't we see if he can reproduce some success - and I'm not saying 240+ yds & 4 TDs, I'm talking 190+ yds passing, 2 TDs, & less INTs than TDs - before we annoint Vick a great QB, shall we? A reproducable result is called a trait. An unreproducable result is called a fluke. (Hint - Vick has only put up or exceeded that combination of numbers I used 7 times in his 64 games as a pro). We saw it last season. The Vick Sucks thread died pretty fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 McNabb's WRs aren't exactly pro-bowlers and he seems to be doing just fine. Reggie Brown is a second year receiver, Hank Baskett is an undrafted rookie, Greg Lewis is a mediocre #3 WR, and Stallworth has been hurt more then healthy. I wonder why McNabb has so many more yards than Vick? Is it just Westbrook? Nahhhh...it can't be just having a player like Westbrook. It's probably got something to do with the types of offense these guys are in & McNabb getting almost 100 more pass attempts than Vick. For 2006 McNabb has 243 pass attempts to date. For 2006 Vick has 147 pass attempts to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 We saw it last season. The Vick Sucks thread died pretty fast. It happened twice out of 15 games last season. That would hardly be considered a regularly repeatable event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Why don't we see if he can reproduce some success - and I'm not saying 240+ yds & 4 TDs, I'm talking 190+ yds passing, 2 TDs, & less INTs than TDs - before we annoint Vick a great QB, shall we? Oh! You mean numbers like this BB? PASSING CP/AT YDS TD INT M. Vick 21/38 306 2 0 & PASSING CP/AT YDS TD INT M. Vick 16/26 161 2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I wonder why McNabb has so many more yards than Vick? Is it just Westbrook? Nahhhh...it can't be just having a player like Westbrook. It's probably got something to do with the types of offense these guys are in & McNabb getting almost 100 more pass attempts than Vick. For 2006 McNabb has 243 pass attempts to date. For 2006 Vick has 147 pass attempts to date. Only a HC who was independently wealthy & didn't need his job would ask Vick to throw more than he absolutely had to. On a normal day, Vick couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Only a HC who was independently wealthy & didn't need his job would ask Vick to throw more than he absolutely had to. On a normal day, Vick couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. So I guess everyone should drop Crumpler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Be honest, if you were starting a new franchise how many QB's would you consider before Vick? Nuff said... If was interested in winning championships: all of them. If my only interest was in selling tickets: less than all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Oh! You mean numbers like this BB? PASSING CP/AT YDS TD INT M. Vick 21/38 306 2 0 & PASSING CP/AT YDS TD INT M. Vick 16/26 161 2 0 Now I see the problem. You are mathematically challenged. For your future reference, BS, 190 is a bigger number than 161. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Vick has fewer passing attempts because he doesn't finish his check downs. He panics and runs the ball. Adding the best WR in the game to ATL doesn't change the fact that Vick looks to run before throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 So I guess everyone should drop Crumpler. Crumpler & the RBs are the only guys that I would consider valid FF threats. Vick doesn't need to throw the ball more than 10 yds to get it to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 You're right. He needs a line before he can just sit in the pocket all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 You're right. He needs a line before he can just sit in the pocket all day. Right, it's the line's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Crumpler & the RBs are the only guys that I would consider valid FF threats. Vick doesn't need to throw the ball more than 10 yds to get it to them. Not to mention it is a quick release to get the ball to them ... before he has a chance to panic and run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Right, it's the line's fault. I'm sure Indy would love to have Atlanta's line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 If was interested in winning championships: all of them. If my only interest was in selling tickets: less than all of them. Have you ever played football other than fantasy football? I doubt it based off these remarks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 It happened twice out of 15 games last season. That would hardly be considered a regularly repeatable event. Lord, please help me open the eyes of Bronco Billy & all the other Vick hating ignorant Huddlers. Games that are close to fitting your criteria by Vick in 2002 passing only Dan Reeves offense +----------+--------------------------+| WK OPP | CMP ATT PYD TD INT |+----------+--------------------------+| 1 gnb | 15 23 209 1 0 || 3 cin | 16 26 174 2 0 || 10 pit | 24 46 294 1 0 || 12 car | 19 24 272 2 0 || 15 sea | 21 38 240 2 2 || 16 det | 20 38 337 2 1 || 17 cle | 17 40 240 1 1 |+----------+--------------------------+ Games that are close to fitting your criteria by Vick in 2003 passing only *Only started 4 games in 2003 due to preseason broken ankle* Jim Mora / Greg Knapp offense +----------+--------------------------+| WK OPP | CMP ATT PYD TD INT |+----------+--------------------------+| 17 jax | 12 22 180 2 1 | Games that are close to fitting your criteria by Vick in 2004 passing only Jim Mora / Greg Knapp offense +----------+--------------------------+| WK OPP | CMP ATT PYD TD INT |+----------+--------------------------+| 2 stl | 14 19 179 1 0 || 6 sdg | 12 21 218 2 1 || 8 den | 18 24 252 2 0 || 12 nor | 16 29 212 2 1 | Games that are close to fitting your criteria by Vick in 2005 passing only Jim Mora / Greg Knapp offense +----------+--------------------------+| WK OPP | CMP ATT PYD TD INT |+----------+--------------------------+| 3 buf | 15 27 167 2 1 || 9 mia | 22 31 228 1 0 || 10 gnb | 20 30 209 2 0 || 11 tam | 21 38 306 2 0 || 14 nor | 12 23 231 1 1 || 16 tam | 16 26 161 2 0 | Now I know you stipulated 2 TD, no Int, 180+ yard games only, but of course that is an unrealistic set of parameters as there is not a single NFL QB, either current or past, who fits that criteria. So there are some 1 TD games with yardage higher than 180 & there are some 2 TD games with yardage less than 180. There are also some games with interceptions, as again, there is not a single NFL QB, either current or past, who has ever had an interception free career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Just off the top of my head? Peyton Manning Tom Brady Donovan McNabb Jake Delhomme Trent Green Mark Bulger Rex Grossman Eli Manning Carson Palmer Matt Hasselbeck David Rivers Drew Brees Matt Leinart Jay Cutler Vince Young Jon Kitna Chad Pennington Kelly Clemens Ryan Fitzpatrick Dan Orlovsky Tony Romo Kelly Clemens Matt Schaub and that list precludes guys like Brad Johnson, Brett Favre, & Steve McNair because of their age and that we're starting a new franchise. Never heard of David Rivers... ...but I'd still take him over Vick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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