Big Score 1 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 How many first round picks have the Falcons wasted on WRs ??? Oh yeah...must be poor drafting because it can't be Vicks fault BeJeebus. You spent all that time typing and that was the best you could come up with? I was right, no substance to you. Atlanta has spent 2 late 1st rounder on Wr's. How many high 1st rounders has Detroit spent on WR's? And what's your point anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Odd then, that he averages a yard-and-a-half more per catch. Again, yac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Again, yac Yeah, implying he's fast enough to run away from LBs and safeties - not slow. Apparently I've been giving the Falcons too much credit, they appear to be less talented on offense than Temple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gd74 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 At first I thought this thread was a joke.... then I thought it was some guy tooting his horn because his team had a big win...but if you clearly think that Vick is the top QB in the NFL... then you are an idiot... Please rank the top 5 QBs in your opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Yeah, implying he's fast enough to run away from LBs and safeties - not slow. Apparently I've been giving the Falcons too much credit, they appear to be less talented on offense than Temple. My point was that Crump is not as good, or as fast as Gonzo was in his prime. Apparently you disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerwin8 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I just don't see enough posts about how bad Vick is........ Go the Falcons! Vick is not the best QB in the NFL, but he sure as heck isn't the worst, either. I think a lot of you guys are confusing "quarterback" with "passer". There aren't a whole lot of QBs who require a defense to change the way the game is played in order to have a chance (Chris Simms might be another one ). It's pretty clear from his completion percentage that he isn't as accurate as a lot of QBs, but I wonder what % of passes guys like Brees and Manning complete from outside the pocket. I think, given WHERE Vick throws a lot of passes, and HOW he does it (on the run, without his feet set, etc) he does a pretty good job. With all that said, there are only a couple of guys who are making ANY sense with their arguments in this post and Big Score is one of them. I understand a lot of the criticisms about Vick, and I agree with some of them. Nobody is a perfect NFL player, and I don't expect Vick to be. But, damn, the guy throws 4 TDs against the Steelers and some of you STILL find reasons to say that this particular performance wasn't noteworthy? Call it a fluke if you want, or claim that he isn't consistent, but give the guy some credit. Sure, he had some 20-30 yard drives, but that's a LONG ways to go against one of the top defenses in the league. Especially with the NFL's WORST red zone offense so far this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerx Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 HA,HA,HA.......man.... If you'll notice I started this post, and haven't responded yet..... That's because as soon as I posted it, I dropped off the website and spent some quality time with the family. The REASON I posted it was to see just how many people out there just plain, hate Vick. I never said anything one way or the other as to how he played today, or even whether or not I thought Vick was a good QB. It was a simple social experiment. I saw people eagerly jumping on Vick in some other posts after the guy had a good game. Honestly, give the guy a break. Yeah, he had an exceptionally good game for his standards today. Give him credit. Sure, he hasn't had many games like this in the past, and sure, he probably won't have many games like this in the future. He's not as bad as most people say, and not as good some "analysts" say.... But dang, give the guy a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 At least some of those guys would have better stats if that hadn't played with Vick and the Falcons. And to your argument that Vick is held back by the run style offense he plays in....the offense in taylored around him and throughout his career he has not taken avantage of the the passing situations that are there(although he did today). Most games it seems he has hard time reading defenses and checking down to his 2nd and 3rd receiving options. See, the reason I said you don't know what you're talking about, is that Mora has tried to put Vick in the WCO which is all about timing & short accurate throws. Square peg meets round hole. Thta is absolutely NOT an offense tailored to Vick's skill set. He rolls out or scrambles too much for any type of timing offense & as everyone knows Vick's strength in the passing game is the long ball, not touch short accurate throws. Dan Reeves offense was far better suited to Vick's skills than what Knapp & Mora have him in. If you'd have watched soooo many Falcon games that you can't even count them, you'd certainly know that and wouldn't have written the crap you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 He's not as bad as most people say And that's it in a nutshell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD6405 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 God knows how truly great His son is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 At first I thought this thread was a joke.... then I thought it was some guy tooting his horn because his team had a big win...but if you clearly think that Vick is the top QB in the NFL... then you are an idiot... Please rank the top 5 QBs in your opinion Uhhh...hey brainiac, please show me where I said he's a top 5 QB, let alone the top QB in the NFL. He's just nowhere near as bad as you're trying to make him out to be. I mean you're just saying stupid crap like he's not even a QB, when he clearly is, even though he may not be the best passer in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 My god he has 1 flucking good game in 5 yrs and now he is JC walking on water. let him do this for another 2-3 weeks then i'll admit I was wrong. dam even a blind squirrel find a nut every now and then. oh, so you can rip on other NFC South teams, but your worthless saints get ripped by a panther fan and you trail him around spewing like a sewer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerx Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 At first I thought this thread was a joke.... then I thought it was some guy tooting his horn because his team had a big win...but if you clearly think that Vick is the top QB in the NFL... then you are an idiot... Please rank the top 5 QBs in your opinion See..... If have followed your "gut" instinct, instead of blindly letting your hatred of Vick lead you off the path, (like a lot of the posts did as well), you could simply have said, "yep, you right, Vick played well today!!! " Instead, we get the "it's only one game" posts, the "what has he done in the past" and the "he'll never win a Superbowl" posts...... WOW, this thing took on a life of its own... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Obviously his legs make up somewhat for those deficiencies but if you can't mount a consistent passing attack, you can't win when it counts - in the playoffs. But you have to have balls too and not choke like our great QBs McNabb and Peyton do on a consistent basis in the big games eventhough their stats are good. I heard once that defense and a running game are key. Last I heard Atlanta was the best rushing team in the NFL last year. I don't know how it is going this year stat wise compared to the rest of the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 And I'll grant that Vick has CLEARLY never had a WR on Harrison's level. How the hell do we know that ... had Harrison been on Atlanta for the duration of Vick's career Harrison's numbers would be 20% of what they are now. Vick is a horrible passer. One thing to note, is that Vick has never been in a pass friendly offense. The nost pass attempts he's ever had is just 421. Of course when you're the QB of one of the NFL's elite rushing offenses, that comes with the territory. I guarantee you that if you put Vick in Indy's offense with those skill players, this would not be his 1st 4 TD game. Vick is not in a "pass happy offense" because he can't pass. --- Vick's style (relying on his legs) wins regular season games, and loses in the playoffs. If that floats your boat so be it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 But you have to have balls too and not choke like our great QBs McNabb and Peyton do on a consistent basis in the big games eventhough their stats are good. I heard once that defense and a running game are key. Last I heard Atlanta was the best rushing team in the NFL last year. I don't know how it is going this year stat wise compared to the rest of the NFL. Leading in rushing(222 yards per game) Last in passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebartender Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Roth also has someone named Hines Ward. These are the WR's Vick's had to work with over the years; Jenkins White Lelie Finneran Pathon D. White Price T.Edwards Jefferson W. Jackson T. Martin Mathis Not exactly a who's who list of WR's, is it? McNabb's WRs aren't exactly pro-bowlers and he seems to be doing just fine. Reggie Brown is a second year receiver, Hank Baskett is an undrafted rookie, Greg Lewis is a mediocre #3 WR, and Stallworth has been hurt more then healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 HA,HA,HA.......man.... If you'll notice I started this post, and haven't responded yet..... That's because as soon as I posted it, I dropped off the website and spent some quality time with the family. The REASON I posted it was to see just how many people out there just plain, hate Vick. I never said anything one way or the other as to how he played today, or even whether or not I thought Vick was a good QB. It was a simple social experiment. I saw people eagerly jumping on Vick in some other posts after the guy had a good game. Honestly, give the guy a break. Yeah, he had an exceptionally good game for his standards today. Give him credit. Sure, he hasn't had many games like this in the past, and sure, he probably won't have many games like this in the future. He's not as bad as most people say, and not as good some "analysts" say.... But dang, give the guy a break. Well, thank you Mr. Ivan Pavlov. You've made the fantasy football world a better place. It's funny that you use the term "Vick hater" for people who recognize that Vick is generally poor at performing the overall task set that a NFL QB needs to perform in order to be considered a good or great NFL QB. Criticizing Vick for his generally poor QB play is appropriate, and quite frankly counters those who think he is some kind of next evolution of the QB position, of which there are many. Vick is a lightening rod on FF boards, which you also know, so you had to expect the multitude of posts. You said it yourself - he had an exceptionally good game for his standards. His standards are lower than a majority of the starting QBs in the NFL, yet he is supposed to be some kind of Uber-QB? Please. Keep your social experiments to yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke 1982 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Well, thank you Mr. Ivan Pavlov. You've made the fantasy football world a better place. It's funny that you use the term "Vick hater" for people who recognize that Vick is generally poor at performing the overall task set that a NFL QB needs to perform in order to be considered a good or great NFL QB. Criticizing Vick for his generally poor QB play is appropriate, and quite frankly counters those who think he is some kind of next evolution of the QB position, of which there are many. Vick is a lightening rod on FF boards, which you also know, so you had to expect the multitude of posts. You said it yourself - he had an exceptionally good game for his standards. His standards are lower than a majority of the starting QBs in the NFL, yet he is supposed to be some kind of Uber-QB? Please. Keep your social experiments to yourself. Amen to this. If pointing out Vick's shortcomings makes me a hater, then add me the list. He will win the same amount of Super Bowls as the other running qbs in history. None. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Well, thank you Mr. Ivan Pavlov. You've made the fantasy football world a better place. It's funny that you use the term "Vick hater" for people who recognize that Vick is generally poor at performing the overall task set that a NFL QB needs to perform in order to be considered a good or great NFL QB. Criticizing Vick for his generally poor QB play is appropriate, and quite frankly counters those who think he is some kind of next evolution of the QB position, of which there are many. Vick is a lightening rod on FF boards, which you also know, so you had to expect the multitude of posts. You said it yourself - he had an exceptionally good game for his standards. His standards are lower than a majority of the starting QBs in the NFL, yet he is supposed to be some kind of Uber-QB? Please. Keep your social experiments to yourself. Hmmm... Last week I was blasted for agreeing with Vick's statement that the Falcons should pass more on 1st and 2nd down. In most cases the response was that Vick is not worthy of starting as a QB in the NFL. Just for the record prior to yesterday's 33 point FF performance Vick had scored 84 points in 5 games while Brady had scored 78. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Well, before all the Vick lovers get too carried away with yesterday's success, here's a list of the currently active QBs who have 4 TD passes in a game in their career: Bledsoe, Drew QB, Dallas Cowboys Boller, Kyle QB, Baltimore Ravens Brady, Tom QB, New England Patriots Brees, Drew QB, New Orleans Saints Brooks, Aaron QB, Oakland Raiders Brunell, Mark QB, Washington Redskins Bulger, Marc QB, St. Louis Rams Collins, Kerry QB, Tennessee Titans Culpepper, Daunte QB, Miami Dolphins Delhomme, Jake QB, Carolina Panthers Dilfer, Trent QB, San Francisco 49ers Favre, Brett QB, Green Bay Packers Frerotte, Gus QB, St. Louis Rams Garcia, Jeff QB, Philadelphia Eagles Green, Trent QB, Kansas City Chiefs Grossman, Rex QB, Chicago Bears Harrington, Joey QB, Miami Dolphins Hasselbeck, Matt QB, Seattle Seahawks Holcomb, Kelly QB, Buffalo Bills Johnson, Brad QB, Minnesota Vikings Kitna, Jon QB, Detroit Lions Manning, Eli QB, New York Giants Manning, Peyton QB, Indianapolis Colts McNabb, Donovan QB, Philadelphia Eagles McNair, Steve QB, Baltimore Ravens Palmer, Carson QB, Cincinnati Bengals Pennington, Chad QB, New York Jets Plummer, Jake QB, Denver Broncos Volek, Billy QB, San Diego Chargers Warner, Kurt QB, Arizona Cardinals Of that list, only Kelly Holcombe & Kerry Collins took longer than being in their 6th year in the league (like Vick) before accomplishing the feat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Well, before all the Vick lovers get too carried away with yesterday's success, here's a list of the currently active QBs who have 4 TD passes in a game in their career: Bledsoe, Drew QB, Dallas Cowboys Boller, Kyle QB, Baltimore Ravens Brady, Tom QB, New England Patriots Brees, Drew QB, New Orleans Saints Brooks, Aaron QB, Oakland Raiders Brunell, Mark QB, Washington Redskins Bulger, Marc QB, St. Louis Rams Collins, Kerry QB, Tennessee Titans Culpepper, Daunte QB, Miami Dolphins Delhomme, Jake QB, Carolina Panthers Dilfer, Trent QB, San Francisco 49ers Favre, Brett QB, Green Bay Packers Frerotte, Gus QB, St. Louis Rams Garcia, Jeff QB, Philadelphia Eagles Green, Trent QB, Kansas City Chiefs Grossman, Rex QB, Chicago Bears Harrington, Joey QB, Miami Dolphins Hasselbeck, Matt QB, Seattle Seahawks Holcomb, Kelly QB, Buffalo Bills Johnson, Brad QB, Minnesota Vikings Kitna, Jon QB, Detroit Lions Manning, Eli QB, New York Giants Manning, Peyton QB, Indianapolis Colts McNabb, Donovan QB, Philadelphia Eagles McNair, Steve QB, Baltimore Ravens Palmer, Carson QB, Cincinnati Bengals Pennington, Chad QB, New York Jets Plummer, Jake QB, Denver Broncos Volek, Billy QB, San Diego Chargers Warner, Kurt QB, Arizona Cardinals Of that list, only Kelly Holcombe & Kerry Collins took longer than being in their 6th year in the league (like Vick) before accomplishing the feat. Of that list, how many led their team to the conference championship by their 4th season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Of that list, how many led their team to the conference championship by their 4th season? Maybe you ought to check which players on that list WON a conference championship, much less WON a Superbowl. Unless you consider finishing in 3rd/4th place in the playoffs some kind of great feat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Vick is not in a "pass happy offense" because he can't pass. Bingo, nuff said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Maybe you ought to check which players on that list WON a conference championship, much less WON a Superbowl. Unless you consider finishing in 3rd/4th place in the playoffs some kind of great feat. Why don't you tell us how many? Lots of teams would consider getting to the conference championship some kind of a great feat especially with a 4th year QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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