Big Score 1 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 You can't possibly be denser than BS, can you? So here you insult two people... Bronco Balls. That's a good, intelligent comment. Thanks for taking us back down to the level of BS. While you wrag on him for calling you Bronco Balls. Pot...meet Kettle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Hey Bronco Balls, at what point did Atlanta ever have a championship caliber team in Vick's career? Please educate me and name that year for us all? Could have been the same year that Minnesota had a championship caliber team with Culpepper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Hey Bronco Balls, at what point did Atlanta ever have a championship caliber team in Vick's career? Please educate me and name that year for us all? Could have been the same year that Minnesota had a championship caliber team with Culpepper. Are you referring to 2000, when Culpepper & the Vikes made it to the NFC Championship game? Atlanta didn't have a chance that year with a 4 & 12 record + Vick was still in College then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Are you referring to 2000, when Culpepper & the Vikes made it to the NFC Championship game? Atlanta didn't have a chance that year with a 4 & 12 record + Vick was still in College then. Actually I was getting a stab in at FishFreak and his man-love for Culpepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Actually I was getting a stab in at FishFreak and his man-love for Culpepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Actually I was getting a stab in at FishFreak and his man-love for Culpepper Superman's weakness was kryptonite. C-Pep is mine. Next year better be a big improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Bronco Balls. That's a good, intelligent comment. Thanks for taking us back down to the level of BS. I would think it would be pretty easy to evaluate. Check the years that ATL has made it to the conference championships. You can't possibly be denser than BS, can you? C'ya! Maybe you should check on some history before you write. ATL went to the championship game in 98 and 04. Vick came into the league in 2001. So like I asked you before which you haven't yet answered, at what point did Vick prevent the Falcons from becoming a championship team? They were never that good during his career to be a SB favorite much less a contender. In 2004 they blitzed a very weak Ram team in the playoffs only to lose to a superior Eagles team (minus TO). Think before you write or better yet don't write at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Think before you write That is NOT BB's strong suit. or better yet don't write at all. That'll never happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 (edited) Maybe you should check on some history before you write. ATL went to the championship game in 98 and 04. Vick came into the league in 2001. So like I asked you before which you haven't yet answered, at what point did Vick prevent the Falcons from becoming a championship team? They were never that good during his career to be a SB favorite much less a contender. In 2004 they blitzed a very weak Ram team in the playoffs only to lose to a superior Eagles team (minus TO). Think before you write or better yet don't write at all. That is NOT BB's strong suit. That'll never happen. How cute. Tweedledumb & Tweedledumber. You 2 rent yourself out for kids' birthdays parties? How about in '02 & '04. Vick's performance vs PHI in '02 that prevented ATL from going to the NFC Championship: 2002 PHI L,6-20 22 comp in 38 pass attempts 274 yds 0 TDs 2 INTs 6 rushes for 30 yds 0 TDs 1 fumble, 0 lost fumbles Vick accounted for 0 - count 'em - 0 TDs in a game where if ATL had scored 3 TDs in the game they would have won. Oh, and he had those two pesky INTs also. That superior Eagle pass D? #13 in the NFL. 2004 PHI L,10-27 11 comp in 24 attempts 136 yds passing 0 TDs 1 INT 4 rushes for 26 yds 0 TDs 3 fumbles, 2 lost fumbles Well, at least Vick only threw 1 INT in their effort to get to the Superbowl. Still, he accounted for 0 TDs again and amassed a whopping 136 yds passing and 162 total yds. Yep - it sure wasn't Vick's fault that ATL lost that game. This time that superior Eagle pass D had worked its way all the way up to #12 in the NFL. Oh, let's not overlook Vick's 3 fumbles either, 2 of which he lost. So what we have in two games vs PHI, one to get to the NFC Championship game, the other to get to the Superbowl, is exactly 0 TDs scored while throwing for 3 INTs, losing 2 fumbles, and barely a 53% completion percentage and a gigantic 6.6 ypa.. The rest of Vick's playoff history in '01, '03, & '05? Well, there isn't any... Now that's the mark of a big-time best-player-in-the-NFL QB, huh? There's your history lesson for today. Edited October 25, 2006 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD6405 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Yes, blame both those games on Vick...because NFL games are not about a team, Vick is the only person out there on the field. I'm sure Jake Plummer has lost more games by himself than Vick has though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 (edited) Yes, blame both those games on Vick...because NFL games are not about a team, Vick is the only person out there on the field. I'm sure Jake Plummer has lost more games by himself than Vick has though.. I don't believe I'm here defending Jake Plummer. Why would you introduce him into the argument? Oh, that's right, as a diversion because you can't rationally defend Vick's ability as a passing QB. So I want to clarify your argument. It seems to be that despite Vick's ability to score a single TD, either rushing or passing, in those 2 games against PHI, that wasn't a significant reason for ATL losing both games against PHI, and that the 3 INTs & 2 lost fumbles also contributed little to the losses. Gotcha'. Edited October 25, 2006 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD6405 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I'm not sure, but I think there could have been more plays in those 2 games than the ones Vick did. I'm not completely sure, BUT I'm taking a wild guess and saying there were more plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Seems to me like you can't have it both ways. You can't crown Vick the best QB in the league and then let him off the hook when he fails to score any TDs in games that count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Seems to me like you can't have it both ways. You can't crown Vick the best QB in the league and then let him off the hook when he fails to score any TDs in games that count. Rational people can't make that argument, Blitz. These guys can, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD6405 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 (edited) Well, unless any of us have those 2 games on tape so we can see the actual game, we can not just use stats for what happened, can we? This is like saying Boller is a great QB after his Carolina game because he threw 3 tds, two of which were luck. Edited October 25, 2006 by CD6405 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 This is like saying Boller is a great QB after his Carolina game because he threw 3 tds, two of which were luck. Which playoff game did that happen in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Well, unless any of us have those 2 games on tape so we can see the actual game, we can not just use stats for what happened, can we? This is like saying Boller is a great QB after his Carolina game because he threw 3 tds, two of which were luck. Yeah I know he had 3 INTs and no TDs ... but did he look good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Well, unless any of us have those 2 games on tape so we can see the actual game, we can not just use stats for what happened, can we? This is like saying Boller is a great QB after his Carolina game because he threw 3 tds, two of which were luck. Can that same logic be used to nulify all the positve things he has done in his career? I mean, all those "wins", more plays happened in those games than the ones involving him, right? So unless we see the games on tape, we can't just use the stats to assume he had anythign to do with any of those victories, right? Your logic, not mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 How cute. Tweedledumb & Tweedledumber. You 2 rent yourself out for kids' birthdays parties? How about in '02 & '04. Vick's performance vs PHI in '02 that prevented ATL from going to the NFC Championship: 2002 PHI L,6-20 22 comp in 38 pass attempts 274 yds 0 TDs 2 INTs 6 rushes for 30 yds 0 TDs Vick accounted for 0 - count 'em - 0 TDs in a game where if ATL had scored 3 TDs in the game they would have won. Oh, and he had those two pesky INTs also. That superior Eagle pass D? #13 in the NFL. 2004 PHI L,10-27 11 comp in 24 attempts 136 yds passing 0 TDs 1 INT 4 rushes for 26 yds 0 TDs Well, at least Vick only threw 1 INT in their effort to get to the Superbowl. Still, he accounted for 0 TDs again and amassed a whopping 136 yds passing and 162 total yds. Yep - it sure wasn't Vick's fault that ATL lost that game. This time that superior Eagle pass D had worked its way all the way up to #12 in the NFL. So what we have in two games vs PHI, one to get to the NFC Championship game, the other to get to the Superbowl, is exactly 0 TDs scored while throwing for 3 INTs and barely a 53% completion percentage and a gigantic 6.6 ypa.. The rest of Vick's playoff history in '01, '03, & '05? Well, there isn't any... Now that's the mark of a big-time best-player-in-the-NFL QB, huh? There's your history lesson for today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I don't suppose the converse has ever occured to you - that ATL had a strong enough team to win a championship but that because they couldn't generate a credible passing offense with Vick at QB that they couldn't get that far? In short, the team was good enough to win a championship but Vick's weakness as a QB held them back? Hey BB, You're getting off the subject based on what YOU wrote. You said the Falcons have had a strong enough team to win a championship and Vick some how caused them not to. First off, the Falcons haven't had a championship caliber team during Vick's career and Vick didn't prevent them from winning a SB. I'm not endorsing Vick as a great QB at all and time will tell if he can guide the Falcons to a SB victory. I will say this, he has certainly helped the Falcons win over the years so if you're going to take shots at him for his failures in the 04 Championship game also acknowledge his success in the NFL. Personally, the Falcons need to get a stud wideout, improve the offensive line, and shore up their run defense before I could call them a championship caliber team. After all, the best TEAM almost always wins the SB, not necessarily the best QB. Otherwise, Peyton Manning would be in the midst of a dynasty right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junebugz Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 <--- Dilfer during this years SB <--- Roethlisberger during this years SB <--- Vick during this years SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Seems to me like you can't have it both ways. You can't crown Vick the best QB in the league and then let him off the hook when he fails to score any TDs in games that count. Don't think anyone here is realistically crowning Vick as the best QB in the league, more like he's nowhere near as bad as some people try & make him out to be. I saw one post in this where somebody said they'd rather have 26 other QB's before Vick & some of the QB's on that list, haven't even played a down in the NFL. Now THAT was a ridiculously stupid post. As far as QB's passing in games that count, check out last years Superbowl winning QB. Pittsburgh Passing C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT B. Roethlisberger 9/21 123 5.9 0 2 How on earth did the Steelers become the Superbowl Champions with their QB going 9 of 21, only throwing for 123 yards, no Touchdowns & 2 interceptions? Oh I know, it's a TEAM game. The other players get to make plays on offense & the Defense is allowed to play a little too. Gee, imagine that. But of course in Vick's case, it's ALL his fault that the Falcons lost those playoff games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Hey BB, You're getting off the subject based on what YOU wrote. You said the Falcons have had a strong enough team to win a championship and Vick some how caused them not to. First off, the Falcons haven't had a championship caliber team during Vick's career and Vick didn't prevent them from winning a SB. No, that's not what I wrote. What I wrote is a question of whether you have ever considered the possibility that the Falcons lost those games because of Vick & not despite Vick. Apparently that concept doesn't enter your thought patterns. When pushed further, I presented some statistics that are fairly damning of Vick in regard to big games, which would suggest strong evidence that he had a significant impact on the outcomes. For you to say the Falcons didn't have champion caliber teams and none of it was Vick's fault tells me that you do not have the ability to assign any blame for any loss to Vick. That being the case, there's really no point in discussing this. You're convinced he's a great QB, despite all of the comparative statistical evidence that indicates otherwise, of which I've presented a bit, and which you either deny or ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Don't think anyone here is realistically crowning Vick as the best QB in the league, more like he's nowhere near as bad as some people try & make him out to be. I saw one post in this where somebody said they'd rather have 26 other QB's before Vick & some of the QB's on that list, haven't even played a down in the NFL. Now THAT was a ridiculously stupid post. As far as QB's passing in games that count, check out last years Superbowl winning QB. Pittsburgh Passing C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT B. Roethlisberger 9/21 123 5.9 0 2 How on earth did the Steelers become the Superbowl Champions with their QB going 9 of 21, only throwing for 123 yards, no Touchdowns & 2 interceptions? Oh I know, it's a TEAM game. The other players get to make plays on offense & the Defense is allowed to play a little too. Gee, imagine that. But of course in Vick's case, it's ALL his fault that the Falcons lost those playoff games. Well said. Plus give the guy credit for GOING to the playoffs much less the NFC Championship game. Many good QB's don't even get that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I don't suppose the converse has ever occured to you - that ATL had a strong enough team to win a championship but that because they couldn't generate a credible passing offense with Vick at QB that they couldn't get that far? In short, the team was good enough to win a championship but Vick's weakness as a QB held them back? Actually BB, that question would have merit if the Falcons had ever had a strong enough OVERALL team to win a championship, but as that is not the case, the question isn't valid. Going back 20+ years, there has NEVER been a Superbowl winner, whose Defense did not rank at LEAST in the Top 8 for points allowed. The 2004 Falcons D ranked 14th in points allowed. Conversely, there have been offenses ranked as low as 14th in points scored, that HAVE won Superbowls. The old adage of "Defense wins Championships" is not just hyperbole dontcha' know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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