spain Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Anybody that has been in sales on a fairly high level is familiar with the RFP process. For those who dont know, RFP stands for Request For Proposal. It is typically done when services are being bid out to several different vendors by large coporations or gobment agencies. Most sales people HATE them because typically, one of your competitors actually helped them craft the RFP, and you have no chance whatsover of winning the business no matter what. They are just sending out the RFP to comply with their company/gobment policy of sending things out to bid. So, you wind up wasting alot of time on it with no hope of winning. I usually no bid them unless I have a pre-existing relationship with that particular customer and/or I am the person who wrote the RFP for them. Anyway, I get this 50 page RFP for a deal that is worth ~$8 million to my company. I immediately tell me boss that I am going to no bid the deal. He doesnt know jack chit about my job or this industry so he blows a f'n gasket because all he sees is the potential sale. He jumps up and down crying and moaning about me not wanting to do this RFP. I tell him we cant possibly win it so lets not waste the time, money, and energy it will take to respond. He doesnt get it so I finally capitulate and tell him I will quote it just to make him see how jacked up the whole thing is. He dumb. So, in responding to this RFP, the vendors get to ask questions in writing, which the answers are sent out to all vendors. I asked a couple questions about how the customer intended to use one of the services mentioned that we were quoting in the RFP and for what purpose. The lazy bi@tch for the customer responds with an answer that she simply cut and pasted from one of my competitors website that describes their services features. So, I knew immediately who 1. helped her with the RFP and 2. who was getting the business. I was going to let it go, but I couldnt help myself. I sent her another question basically saying that I understand the product that X offers, I was wanting to know how you intended to use it and for what purpose. So, being busted, she sent an email only to me, when all other correspondance was to all vendors. She said that that description was how they intended to use it. Obviously, that description had nothing to do with how they would use it. But she didnt want to waste time telling me anything about it, so now I sit here, wondering if I should make a very flippant response and no bid this mofo now. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefjay Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 You get paid to bid on RFP's regardless if it's a waste of time which as you stated it is most of the time. I am guessing there have been RFP's that were written with the preferred / incumbent vendor in mind but we still respond to for the most part if we A. have the time and B. feel the potential reward is worth the time. How about undercutting them? Would your company even consider that? Give the client something to think about. We all know it will be a waste of a day and you probably are mainly compensated on wins not # of RFP's, RFQ's, etc.. that you respond to but you have to keep the boss happy too. It's a delicate balance for sure. If not, then just finish the RFP as quickly and thorough as possible and then move on to something more realistic and then go let the air out of the potential client's tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_bone65 Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 I am on the Government side of the process, we have to review all of the quotes that come in for IT service contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 you should reply to the RFP using only quoted material from the company's web site. Those three letters send a chill down my spine. Nothing like spending 6 months of my life for absolutely nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 50 pages? we get them all the time but in my industry, 50 pages would be overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 I am on the Government side of the process, we have to review all of the quotes that come in for IT service contracts. who reviewed the rfp for the $100 toliet seats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 who reviewed the rfp for the $100 toliet seats? Haliburton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefjay Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 I am on the Government side of the process, we have to review all of the quotes that come in for IT service contracts. Those rates for Gubment contracts are always sweet. I think our's gets renewed on December 31st and not a day before for the next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 You get paid to bid on RFP's regardless if it's a waste of time which as you stated it is most of the time. I am guessing there have been RFP's that were written with the preferred / incumbent vendor in mind but we still respond to for the most part if we A. have the time and B. feel the potential reward is worth the time. How about undercutting them? Would your company even consider that? Give the client something to think about. We all know it will be a waste of a day and you probably are mainly compensated on wins not # of RFP's, RFQ's, etc.. that you respond to but you have to keep the boss happy too. It's a delicate balance for sure. If not, then just finish the RFP as quickly and thorough as possible and then move on to something more realistic and then go let the air out of the potential client's tires. I get paid to make smart business decisions that make my company money. If I know we cant win an RFP, why even waste several of my peoples time and resources on it? I think marshalling your assets and throwing them hard at winnable and profitable deals is the way to make money. Not gambling on some f'n long shot RFP that you are at least 100-1 to lose. But yes, technically, I am paid to have my folks respond to any RFQs, RFPs, etc. But if its throwing away money with little chance for a return, then it makes sense to walk away. Unfortunately, my boss doesnt understand that concept... My company wont undercut anybody so I am just pissed that I have to waste my time on this when the customer wont even take the time to explain their situation because they have already made the decision before the RFP was even sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinL Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 I get paid to make smart business decisions that make my company money. If I know we cant win an RFP, why even waste several of my peoples time and resources on it? I think marshalling your assets and throwing them hard at winnable and profitable deals is the way to make money. Not gambling on some f'n long shot RFP that you are at least 100-1 to lose. But yes, technically, I am paid to have my folks respond to any RFQs, RFPs, etc. But if its throwing away money with little chance for a return, then it makes sense to walk away. Unfortunately, my boss doesnt understand that concept... My company wont undercut anybody so I am just pissed that I have to waste my time on this when the customer wont even take the time to explain their situation because they have already made the decision before the RFP was even sent. Looks like the no-bid is the thing to do in this situation. Unfortunately I have no advice on how to make your boss understand this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefjay Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 I get paid to make smart business decisions that make my company money. If I know we cant win an RFP, why even waste several of my peoples time and resources on it? I think marshalling your assets and throwing them hard at winnable and profitable deals is the way to make money. Not gambling on some f'n long shot RFP that you are at least 100-1 to lose. But yes, technically, I am paid to have my folks respond to any RFQs, RFPs, etc. But if its throwing away money with little chance for a return, then it makes sense to walk away. Unfortunately, my boss doesnt understand that concept... My company wont undercut anybody so I am just pissed that I have to waste my time on this when the customer wont even take the time to explain their situation because they have already made the decision before the RFP was even sent. I forgot my Seriously though, my wording wasn't the best. You're right though about the bidding of no chance RF whatevers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 As someone who is often put into the position of being the requestor, All I can say that it is just as not fun and frustrating to be on the other end of that. I try to resist getting competetive bids on jobs until it's time to really pull the trigger. Most of the time I know who I want to work with and what I want to get. RFPs are often times just a price check on isle 5. The 'approach situations you can participate in fruitfully' methodology is good, but often ignored by those that 'know better' Annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 We help client write RFP's all the time. We rarely respond to RFP's that we didn't help construct. You are correct the question asked as well as those not asked on an RFP have more to do with determining who will get the project than the actual qualifications of the vendor/contractor. The only time we will respond to an RFP that we did not have a hand in making is if we really, really, really need the work and are prepared to do the work at cost just to keep people busy. Luckily we haven't been in that situation in the last 5 years or so. If you can't get your boss to see how pointless it is to reply to the RFP, then let him read this thread. Maybe he will believe some of us who don't care if you bust your ass and waste your companies resources or not. Of course if you do that, he will know that you are spending too much time on the Huddle, and that you probably have time to go through this meaningless exercise anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 As someone who is often put into the position of being the requestor, All I can say that it is just as not fun and frustrating to be on the other end of that. I try to resist getting competetive bids on jobs until it's time to really pull the trigger. Most of the time I know who I want to work with and what I want to get. RFPs are often times just a price check on isle 5. The 'approach situations you can participate in fruitfully' methodology is good, but often ignored by those that 'know better' Annoying. We normally will not respond to RFP's that request fee's prior to ranking each contractor on their qualifications. The only time we will do this, is if we are in desperate need for a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 We use RFPs a fair amount, for large and important IT contracts that will stretch over years e.g. data services, ERPs and so on. Our RFPs are extremely comprehensive, running to hundreds and hundreds of pages. We send them out to as many companies as we can - we sent out 9 last time we did a data services contract. The responses we get are often bigger than the RFP. I have one right here that ran to well over 1,000 pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 I think you need to explain to your boss simple expected cost vs. expected benefit analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefjay Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 We use RFPs a fair amount, for large and important IT contracts that will stretch over years e.g. data services, ERPs and so on. Our RFPs are extremely comprehensive, running to hundreds and hundreds of pages. We send them out to as many companies as we can - we sent out 9 last time we did a data services contract. The responses we get are often bigger than the RFP. I have one right here that ran to well over 1,000 pages. You have to Cap those responses. 100 pages or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 You have to Cap those responses. 100 pages or so. Not possible when dealing with a data and phone services contract. The costing tables alone will run to easily that amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiley Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 It is typically done when services are being bid out to several different vendors by large coporations or gobment agencies. Most sales people HATE them because typically, one of your competitors actually helped them craft the RFP, and you have no chance whatsover of winning the business no matter what. We're guilty of this. I do quite a bit of work for state agencies in IL, NJ, and MD. My inside man has to issue RFPs to other vendors even though we're already guaranteed the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 I never play RPG's but I hear World of Warcraft is fun...good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefjay Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Not possible when dealing with a data and phone services contract. The costing tables alone will run to easily that amount. I just mean an amount you are comfortable with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 (edited) I just mean an amount you are comfortable with. Last time, I engaged a third party company that specialize in negotiating very low rates with telco carriers and they did all the grunt work. They got us incredibly low rates AND I only had to read the highlights of the giant RFP responses. Good thing too, the RFP I was referring to is still in my office and it's at least three inches thick. Edited December 12, 2006 by Ursa Majoris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangent1 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 How about suggesting to your boss that he help you put together a most competitive informed bid with all the bells and whistles. Suggest that you and he arrange a dinner meeting with the potential client. Let him know that the business is so lucrative that things need to be reacted to immediately. Tell him you have set up the meeting for Sunday December 24th at 8 PM. You realize that the holiday season means a lot to most people within your organization, but you also know that this can make his year. See if he has a pair. Like I have told my boss... You can tell me what to do, or you can tell me how to do it, But YOU CANT DO BOTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewer Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 We get some of our work through the RFP process, although it is not a large percentage of our overall reveneus. Usually we need to participate in the RFP bull when a capital project is receiving federal funding. I'm working on two now that required the RFP process in order to comply with federal procurement proceedures. We had the inside track on both of them from the start, as the client has been with us for 25 years. As Perch noted, I usually don't bother with them if I think that another firm has the inside position, as it's tough to knock them out of the way just by submitting a proposal. That being said, there are times when I will submit even if my chances of getting that particular job are slim. For example, if I know that the person handling that client for my competitor is an ringfinger, I will throw my name in, as it's just a matter of time before he pisses them off. In my industry, I believe that you need to keep your name in front of potential clients. Responding to one of there RFPs is a good oportunity to get to speak with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclones Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I know how you feel Spainer. I'm in Ops, but play a large part in our responses. Last year the Fed Gubment put out an RFP for A-File conversion. Pretty much everyone in our industry knew who was going to win it. A competitor had recently leased a Hugh facility in Eastern KY (the work has to be performed in a HUB zone, so Eastern KY is a hotbed for Fed Gubment contracts) and had been running ads on the radio and in the paper for a large number of mailroom and DE operators. So what did our company do? We spent 3 solid months with a team of 8 putting together a response that included tens of thousands in travel, food, etc. Several of us were telling senior mgmt that it was fruitless, but all our Division President could see was the zeroes (it was a $50 million contract.) So, we lose to the competitor that we all knew was gonna win it, and what do we do? Protest it. Another $180,000 down the tubes in legal fees, and nothing. I'd estimate that with all the costs factored in, we invested 350-400k in this thing and came up empty. For me RFP= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.