Bin Laden - Dead

[Square]

Only a dumbfu(k would have to have thought that torture does not yield results.

 

Whether torture is ethical in the 21st Century is another issue.

Actually, the problem is how unreliable that info is. Tortured people will say anything and can many times waste more time and effort (you know, while making us look like scum) than other methods of interrogation.

[wiegie]

So, some Muslims are not happy about the way a mass murderer was burried. Well then, go f*ck yourself I say.

exactly

 

I'll note that the local Imam in Grand Rapids is fine with everything:

 

Imam: bin Laden's death 'a relief'

Sharif Sahibzada spoke with 24 Hour News 8

Updated: Monday, 02 May 2011, 5:45 PM EDT

 

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WOOD) - The Imam of the Islamic Center and Mosque of Grand Rapids said Osama bin Laden's death is "a relief."

 

Sharif Sahibzada told 24 Hour News 8 bin Laden's death "...was a relief that an evil person who has put the whole humanity and the world in danger has been removed from this land. And also because its God's commandment, anyone who fights against God or his messenger, that person has to be killed or crucified or exiled or taken away from this land."

 

The Imam said bin Laden's burial at sea was the right thing to do.

Edited May 2, 2011 by wiegie

[SuperBalla]

I can't wait for the next Call of Duty game to come out.

[Delicious_bass]

As more of the details emerge, I find I have even more questions.

 

I get that the US forces wanted to keep Pakistan in the dark (as they obviously didnt trust the Pakistanis to not tip off OBL to the impending raid) but I am curious why (once the fortress was breeched and Bin Laden shot) didnt the US give some notification so they could spend more time in the compound searching for intel? Sounds like they got a bunch, anyways, but I would think they would want to scour that place and get every last bit of info they could. By high-tailing it out of there, they could have missed stuff. If the US forces wanted this to be an anonymous hit, I could see wanting to disappear quickly and leave no trace. Obviously, though, they want to the world to know that it was US that got him and they took credit for it almost immediately. So, unless the US forces were afraid the Pakistanis would act against them (or that there were more OBL cronies near by), I am not sure why they needed to get out so quickly.

 

From what I am hearing now, the compound is under the control of the Pakistanis. If the US forces missed anything, what are the chances they will get access to it now? The Pakistanis are certainly going to be more than a little chapped that they werent notified (even though some of them are/were aiding OBL) and who knows how cooperative they will be at this point?

[Deathpig]

From what I am hearing now, the compound is under the control of the Pakistanis. If the US forces missed anything, what are the chances they will get access to it now? The Pakistanis are certainly going to be more than a little chapped that they werent notified (even though some of them are/were aiding OBL) and who knows how cooperative they will be at this point?

 

I'm curious if evidence was found of systemic collusion between OBL and Pakistan. If Pakistan has reason to believe we've found a smoking gun (no pun intended), I wonder how their stance will change with us. It's not like we don't have a recent history of 'reacting negatively' to people we think are helping/harboring terrorists.

[matt770]

I hope none of the soldiers drove drunk on their way to the compound.^TM

[Delicious_bass]

I'm curious if evidence was found of systemic collusion between OBL and Pakistan. If Pakistan has reason to believe we've found a smoking gun (no pun intended), I wonder how their stance will change with us. It's not like we don't have a recent history of 'reacting negatively' to people we think are helping/harboring terrorists.

Of course, its certainly possible that the Pakistanis were instrumental in the raid but the US is making it worth their while to lay back and let US take the credit. I mean, its no secret the significance of the demise of OBL greatly depended on the US being the ones who got him. I am not so naive to believe that the US wouldnt say to Pakistan "Look, we NEED to get this guy and it NEEDS to appear to the world that is/was US. Dont get in the way, let us take the credit, and you've got an ally and/or X amount of support/aid/etc. We're going to act like we're pissed and say some nasty things about you for a while, but (behind the scenes) we have your back." Now, that could be (most likely is) complete poppycock, too, and Pakistan could be in some deep chit if there is more concrete evidence that they sheltered/helped/hid OBL and his people. We oughtta be able to figure which it is rather soon, though, by the way the US acts toward Pakistan in the coming days. If the US acts pissed and talks tough but takes no actions/sanctions against Pakistan...

 

Definitely there are some real questions, though. It would seem to me that not notifying the Pakistanis once the US forces had taken OBL put the whole mission in jeopardy. Had the Pakistanis mobilized and attacked the US forces (not knowing they were US forces since there was no notification) they probably would have been justified, no? Imagine if the US had killed and taken OBL but then the helicopter that was carrying him was shot down by a Pakistani missle? Not likely, but it would hose up the whole mission if the body was blown to bits after all this time, wouldnt it? It does sound like the plan was to notify the Pakistanis if they started to mobilize but that seems to be a big risk to take to me when they could have just let them know once there was no danger of them tipping off OBL

[electricrelish]

On a side note, last night and today, fist-pumping DJ's have been playing "Born In the USA", which is not really a patriotic song. Again, just a side note.

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1014

[tosberg34]

Remember the rules when dealing with terrorists/zombies: Always Double Tap.

[bpwallace49]

I for one, am not scared by the Pakistani air force. Have this mental picture of a baboon flying the red baron plane that Snoopy used to fly.

[Big John]

I for one, am not scared by the Pakistani air force. Have this mental picture of a baboon flying the red baron plane that Snoopy used to fly.

Snoopy fought against the Red Baron

 

 

[Ursa Majoris]

I for one, am not scared by the Pakistani air force. Have this mental picture of a baboon flying the red baron plane that Snoopy used to fly.

I'd have another think if I were you.

[bpwallace49]

I'd have another think if I were you.

Chinese made p o s.

 

It crashed in broad daylight cause it didn't work. You aren't exactly disproving my point there.

[tosberg34]

From what I am hearing now, the compound is under the control of the Pakistanis. If the US forces missed anything, what are the chances they will get access to it now? The Pakistanis are certainly going to be more than a little chapped that they werent notified (even though some of them are/were aiding OBL) and who knows how cooperative they will be at this point?

 

Apparently, they cleaned the place out during the raid. Cast aside all doubts now.

[Ursa Majoris]

Chinese made p o s.

 

It crashed in broad daylight cause it didn't work. You aren't exactly disproving my point there.

Just trying to point out that they do have modern jet fighters. Besides, I don't think it's you that needs to be scared of them, what with being 12,000 miles away and all.

[Big John]

Just trying to point out that they do have modern jet fighters. Besides, I don't think it's you that needs to be scared of them, what with being 12,000 miles away and all.

around 7000

 

http://www.happyzebra.com/distance-calcula...o-Islamabad.php

 

(Abbottabad ids about 40 miles to Islamabad.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Big John

[Ursa Majoris]

Picture of the president and the national security team watching the operation as it happened.

[bushwacked]

Doesn't make any difference to the Rattass crowd. They will say they are fake anyway. People who disbelieve the moon landings are extremely unlikely to believe Bin Laden is really dead even if you dropped his corpse on their heads.

 

 

Michael Barkun, professor emeritus of political science at the Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs, Syracuse University agrees.

 

 

Just days after the president produced a long-form birth certificate to silence — or further incite — the “birthers” who insist he was not born in the U.S., now rages a new barrage of questions: Was that really Osama bin Laden killed Sunday in a U.S. military operation in Pakistan? Why no pictures? And why was the body disposed at sea, as government officials have said?

 

Mix in the convergence of bin Laden’s death coming on the eighth anniversary of President George W. Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” speech prematurely proclaiming an end to major combat actions in Iraq, and you have a stew sure to feed suspicious minds.

 

“Even if there were images, there would be conspiracy theories. It is unfortunately a product of the times that we live in,” says Michael Barkun, professor emeritus of political science at the Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs, Syracuse University. Barkun has written two books on conspiracy theory in America since the Sept. 11 attacks.

 

“Those people who don’t accept it and have generated alternative explanations now have a way of communicating those alternative explanations more broadly than would have been the case 25 or 30 years ago because they have the Internet.”

 

Early today, the list of Google trending topics confirmed as much. No. 1: “Osama bin Laden dead.” No. 4: “Obama approval rating.” And No. 15, after a few other bin Laden and Sept. 11-related terms: “Conspiracy theories.” Countless Twitter posts and Facebook updates — some seemingly in jest and others not — showed the same.

 

Bin Laden has been dead for years, goes one of the theories espoused on Twitter, with the U.S. releasing tapes of him periodically to perpetuate the war on terror. Bin Laden was actually killed on Friday, says another, and the announcement delayed so as to not detract from the royal wedding.

 

Or this, from Twitter user @silentlyloud: “I don’t have a conspiracy thought that Osama isn’t dead but that the killing was planned to a specific date for re-election bait.”

 

Some, birthers or otherwise, place bin Laden with the likes of JFK, Elvis or Tupac, Barkun said.

 

“Their vision of the world is a vision where nothing happens by accident, where nothing is how it seems, where everything is connected,” Barkun said. “If you view the world in this way, it’s not just Obama’s birth.

 

"It is a matter of seeing every event in a similar manner so that nothing that is presented by authority or by mainstream institutions is accepted. There’s always this vision that the real truth lies behind the curtain.

 

“For people who view the world in that way, it’s a vision that can’t be falsified, it can’t be disproven. You can’t present to them some piece of evidence that says ‘your way of viewing the world is wrong.’ Because their response will be either that you’re a part of the conspiracy, or that the evidence that you’re showing me has been planted by the conspiracy to mislead people.”

 

But for Stella Olender of Chicago, her questions aren’t politically-motivated conspiracy theories, but rather the still-fresh wounds of losing a daughter, 39-year-old Christine, who died at the World Trade Center in the Sept. 11 attacks.

 

“Is it true or false? I don’t know,” Olender said in a phone interview while working at her tailoring and cleaning business in the city’s Hanson Park neighborhood.

 

Olender said she’s particularly concerned because U.S. officials have said bin Laden’s body was buried at sea but haven’t offered any photographic proof that he was killed.

 

“To me, that seems strange, that they disposed of it and no one (besides) whoever was right there knows what happened, if it’s true or false, you know?” Olender said.

[rattsass]

Photos. Absolutely necessary when you dump the body in the ocean. Not unreasonable at all. Not one iota.

[bushwacked]

While my guess is the photos will eventually become public info, I'm sure there are other potential consequences presently being weighed that are more important than convincing the conspiracy truther crowd (who are likely going to believe in a conspiracy anyway).

[delusions of grandeur]

9/11 victim family member upset about burial at sea. Good article:

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...3,0,64196.story

[Pope Flick]

Picture of the president and the national security team watching the operation as it happened.

 

 

 

So much for 'who do you want answering the phone at 3am?' The regrettably angry black guy or the woman with her hand to her mouth?

[Azazello1313]

As more of the details emerge, I find I have even more questions.

 

I get that the US forces wanted to keep Pakistan in the dark (as they obviously didnt trust the Pakistanis to not tip off OBL to the impending raid) but I am curious why (once the fortress was breeched and Bin Laden shot) didnt the US give some notification so they could spend more time in the compound searching for intel? Sounds like they got a bunch, anyways, but I would think they would want to scour that place and get every last bit of info they could. By high-tailing it out of there, they could have missed stuff. If the US forces wanted this to be an anonymous hit, I could see wanting to disappear quickly and leave no trace. Obviously, though, they want to the world to know that it was US that got him and they took credit for it almost immediately. So, unless the US forces were afraid the Pakistanis would act against them (or that there were more OBL cronies near by), I am not sure why they needed to get out so quickly.

 

From what I am hearing now, the compound is under the control of the Pakistanis. If the US forces missed anything, what are the chances they will get access to it now? The Pakistanis are certainly going to be more than a little chapped that they werent notified (even though some of them are/were aiding OBL) and who knows how cooperative they will be at this point?

I'm curious if evidence was found of systemic collusion between OBL and Pakistan. If Pakistan has reason to believe we've found a smoking gun (no pun intended), I wonder how their stance will change with us. It's not like we don't have a recent history of 'reacting negatively' to people we think are helping/harboring terrorists.

 

I think the problem is that "pakistan" is not some singular entity. I think there are elements in the pakistani govt and the ISI who want to destroy al qaeda, and I think there are elements in the govt and the ISI who are loyal to al qaeda. you only need one or two moles who would quickly relay info to al qaeda, and that makes telling anyone in that govt just too risky a proposition. and I don't know if the worry was that the choppers would be attacked by the pakistani army necessarily, but more likely that if they tipped the right sympathizer suddenly the compound would be swarming with taliban.

[Ursa Majoris]

While my guess is the photos will eventually become public info, I'm sure there are other potential consequences presently being weighed that are more important than convincing the conspiracy truther crowd (who are likely going to believe in a conspiracy anyway).

Exactly. There's a lot to consider and, frankly, I value the lives of our troops more than I value trying to quench the thirst of the lunatic fringe.

[Furd]

To those of you that doubt Bin Laden is dead, when do you think that we'll hear from him?