trrhyne Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 The Vikings had to change something. There were not improving. This trade could go either way, but they were not going to advance in the playoffs with their defense and their team "chemistry" or lack thereof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 (edited) I wonder who gets the TD's inside the 5 yard line now. 722244[/snapback] Burleson, possibly. But if MRob is around Culpepper looked to him almost as much as Moss. MRob can go up to get the ball as good as anyone in the league. Either that or you see more rushing tds. Much more will bring them up to par with other teams. Edited March 6, 2005 by MikesVikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 If Favre retires, they are a lock for a winning season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 I wonder who gets the TD's inside the 5 yard line now. 722244[/snapback] Burleson, possibly. But if MRob is around Culpepper looked to him almost as much as Moss. MRob can go up to get the ball as good as anyone in the league. Either that or you see more rushing tds. Much more will bring them up to par with other teams. 722733[/snapback] Don't forget Wiggins 9/12 - vs - Dallas: Marcus Robinson, 3 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 10/10 - vs - Houston: Nate Burleson, 5 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper // Marcus Robinson, 10 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 10/17 - vs - New Orleans: Jermaine Wiggins, 1 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper // Jermaine Wiggins, 9 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper // Marcus Robinson, 1 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 10/24 - vs - Tenneesee: Marcus Robinson, 2 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 10/31 - vs - NY Giants: Nate Burleson, 1 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 11/08 - vs - Indianapolis: Nate Burleson, 8 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 11/14 - vs - Green Bay: Nate Burleson, 8 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 11/21 - vs - Detroit: Jermaine Wiggins, 8 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper // Nate Burleson, 6 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 12/05 - vs - Chicago: Nate Burleson, 4 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 722702[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 One of the latest rumors is Rod Gardner to Minny for a draft pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 One of the latest rumors is Rod Gardner to Minny for a draft pick. 722792[/snapback] That would be something. A Clemson and USC WR on the same team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 One of the latest rumors is Rod Gardner to Minny for a draft pick. 722792[/snapback] Yep and here's more info on it from page 1 of this thread: Oh! And the Vikes are looking around at available WR's: "The Vikings and Washington Redskins have discussed a trade that would send receiver Rod Gardner to Minnesota, probably for a draft pick. Rob Brzezinski, Vikings vice president of football operations, confirmed he has conducted additional trade discussions since shipping receiver Randy Moss to Oakland last week. Brzezinski would not comment specifically on Gardner but said, "We are looking at every way possible to improve our football team. That includes the possibility of a trade." The 15th overall pick in the 2001 draft and a big target at 6-2, Gardner caught 51 passes for 650 yards with five touchdowns last season." www.startribune.com He ain't no Moss, but Gardner could be serviceable. 722703[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 The following is obviously kind of old, but it points to a potential change in the Vikes Offensive philosophy with no Moss. From PFW's "The Way We Hear It" "With Randy Moss expected to leave for Oakland, the exploding-scoreboard mentality on offense will likely leave with him. At least that’s the impression you get from Minnesota’s coaches. They say head coach Mike Tice and offensive coordinator Steve Loney are leaning toward an offensive switch to better fit their personality, veering away from the pass-heavy system and building around a powerful running game and play-action passing. Tice was of the mind that the fast-break offense Minnesota has used couldn’t carry the team to the Super Bowl and thus approved of the move to swap Moss for defensive help. As part of the downshift, basic fundamentals and a more “old-school thinking” will be part of Tice’s message at the post-draft minicamp." www.profootballweekly.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 The only thing I really don't like at this point is the fact that for the last 20 or so consecutive years, the Vikings have had at least one top-tier, pro-bowl WR on their roster. The early 80's blew, but then Anthony Carter started around '85 or so for the Vikes, and he overlapped with Cris Carter, who in turn overlapped with Randy Moss. Now who do we have? Nobody of note IMO. Not that we need to have that caliber of WR to win, but it's been a part of the team identity for a long time now. Could take some getting used to. 722323[/snapback] Hello? Nate Burleson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 The Vikings had to change something. There were not improving. This trade could go either way, but they were not going to advance in the playoffs with their defense and their team "chemistry" or lack thereof. 722705[/snapback] Nor with Mike Tice as head coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 Wiggins is an unrestricted FA. Maybe we could sign him when we get an owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schellin30 Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 (edited) Hello? Nate Burleson? 723037[/snapback] Nate Burleson is a great player. But he knows his role on the team, and that is a solid #2 WR. He's a young kid and should continue to get better and better. But for right now, he'll have to settle with being one of the best #2 WR's in the game. Edited March 7, 2005 by schellin30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Nate Burleson is a great player. But he knows his role on the team, and that is a solid #2 WR. He's a young kid and should continue to get better and better. But for right now, he'll have to settle with being one of the best #2 WR's in the game. 723174[/snapback] Don't look now, but he IS a number one WR at the moment. His production when Moss was out proves he is a viable #1 WR. At least you did admit he could get even better. I remember a game last year he caught, what 2 TD's and got over 100 yards with a just recently (within days) broken nose. I'd take Burleson on the Jets and call him our #1 WR in a heartbeat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Nate Burleson is a great player. But he knows his role on the team, and that is a solid #2 WR. He's a young kid and should continue to get better and better. But for right now, he'll have to settle with being one of the best #2 WR's in the game. 723174[/snapback] Tice stated that no matter who the Vikes would pick up in FA or elsewhere that Burleson would head into TC as the #1 receiver. Not that that could never change or anything. I believe that it could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbucklers Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Wiggins is an unrestricted FA. Maybe we could sign him when we get an owner. 723044[/snapback] They need to keep "the Popsicle", just because he looks sweet in his uniform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Thing of it is, in this day and age of the tall WR, he is a bit short at barely 6' Seriously though, Hook brought up some good questions / observations that I think should be looked at: While this is true, what to me was more telling, was the amount of points the Vikes D gave up against those teams. 34 points to the Giants :bigshock: 31 to Indy is no surprise 34 to the Pack slightly surprising, but not really. Even now, Favre can strap the Pack on his back and will his Team to victory. Plus I think the Packers as a Team, just plain don't like the Vikes and always get up for them. But lets take a look at how the Vikes O & D performed with Moss playing, against some Teams with decent to very good D's, but with erratic, or even sub par O's. Dec 5th - vs - Chicago, with Moss. Chicago in 2004 had a terrible O, but quite good D, as we all know. End result? Loss by the Vikes 14 - 24 Dec 19th - vs - Detroit, with Moss The best thing that can be said about the Lions O, is that it made opponents nervous. They were a Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde type offense. You never knew if they were going to blow up....or lay an egg. Their D was middling IMO. End result? Win (barely!) 28 - 27 Jan 2nd - vs - Was, with Moss. Again in 2004, the Skins had what can only be described as a butt ugly O, but their D was excellent. This game was extremely important for the Vikes, as it was the last regular season game and final Wild Card berths had yet to be decided. A Win and they're assured of a Post Season berth. A Loss and they're relying on the outcome of other games to find out if they back into the Post Season. End result? Loss by the Vikes 18 - 21 What can we take from the above? Even with Moss playing, the Vikes O can struggle against good D's. However, it is an absolute certainty, that even playing against awful, pitiful, can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag type O's, the Vikes D just plain flat out sucked! 9/12 - vs - Dallas: Marcus Robinson, 3 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 10/10 - vs - Houston: Nate Burleson, 5 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper // Marcus Robinson, 10 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 10/17 - vs - New Orleans: Jermaine Wiggins, 1 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper // Jermaine Wiggins, 9 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper // Marcus Robinson, 1 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 10/24 - vs - Tenneesee: Marcus Robinson, 2 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 10/31 - vs - NY Giants: Nate Burleson, 1 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 11/08 - vs - Indianapolis: Nate Burleson, 8 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 11/14 - vs - Green Bay: Nate Burleson, 8 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 11/21 - vs - Detroit: Jermaine Wiggins, 8 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper // Nate Burleson, 6 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper 12/05 - vs - Chicago: Nate Burleson, 4 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper Of course some of the above passes are outside of the 5 yd line that Hook used as a barometer, but I thought anything from the 10 was a better gauge. Don't get me wrong now, Moss had his fair share of short TD passes, but the object of the exercise was to show that the short TD passing game, isn't going to simply evaporate into thin air, now that Moss is gone. 722702[/snapback] So what..did you post every TD by either Wiggins, Burleson, or Robinson. Great, they caught a few TD's last year. You can't tell me Burleson strikes fear into any defense. Even the addition of Gardner does nothing. Now if you were to tell me that the team may be more fired up and play more like a team, well, okay I'll buy that. Basically, next season is now on the shoulders of CPep and we will see if he can deliver or not!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 I agree totally, this next season will show everyone whether or not C-Pep is a great QB or just an average one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schellin30 Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Don't look now, but he IS a number one WR at the moment. His production when Moss was out proves he is a viable #1 WR. At least you did admit he could get even better. I remember a game last year he caught, what 2 TD's and got over 100 yards with a just recently (within days) broken nose. I'd take Burleson on the Jets and call him our #1 WR in a heartbeat! 723190[/snapback] Well the vikings obviously aren't satisfied with him being our #1. I think he's like 24 or 26, he's got pleanty of years ahead of him to get even better and be a lock for a #1 WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schellin30 Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 I agree totally, this next season will show everyone whether or not C-Pep is a great QB or just an average one... 724102[/snapback] Daunte is already a great QB. If you don't remember when Moss was out this season, he was hte one constant for the Vikings that whole time. He's proven that he can play without a Randy Moss on his team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 So what..did you post every TD by either Wiggins, Burleson, or Robinson. Great, they caught a few TD's last year. You can't tell me Burleson strikes fear into any defense. Even the addition of Gardner does nothing. 724039[/snapback] NAUgrad, I think you totally and completely missed the point of the post. There was a reason why those specific TD's, by those specific WR's were listed. Especially the DISTANCE of those TD catches You also asked if all of their TD's were listed. The answer is no! Only their TD receptions covering 10 yards or less were listed, as those short TD's and only those short TD's, pertained to the subject of the post. The short TD's and who caught them, was in response to Hook questioning who would now be catching them, with Moss no longer on the Team. I wonder who gets the TD's inside the 5 yard line now. They used to all go to Moss.722244[/snapback] This of course is a fairly common assumption. My point was to show that all last year, whether Moss was healthy and in the line up or not, the short TD passing game (I used 10 yards as the barometer) did not falter. The post and it's subject matter, had absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Burleson strikes fear into opposing D's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Interesting. I still say that the Vikings will not be as successful inside the 5 without Moss. He would make some unbelievable grabs. But as Big Score 1 showed, the Vikes still weren't afraid to keep chucking it in there, even when Moss was hurt. Regardless, one thing is certain: Minnesota RB's still won't be worth ***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Public Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 PSSSSSSST, you're 31 million UNDER the cap. Do something!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 How quickly things change.... Winfield and Smoot gives the Vikings one of the best tandems at corner and the re-signed Wiggins which will help the offense along with Kleinsasser coming back... If they trade for Darius and draft well, this could be a top 10 D next year.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Public Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Smoot is not worth what they paid him? All the same at least they did something. Smoot can't play the run, is a loudmouth, and does get beat. He is above average but I can't stand the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 How quickly things change.... Winfield and Smoot gives the Vikings one of the best tandems at corner and the re-signed Wiggins which will help the offense along with Kleinsasser coming back... 727234[/snapback] I am very surprised how they upgraded their defense. With Minnesota's RBs, could they be a defensive oriented team? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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