Mike Vick

[migarvin]

Didn't mean to get everyone all riled up. First of all i'm not a rook, I've been on this message board for awhile had to switch names because i havent been on it in a few years, but i've been on message boards since I started fantasy football years ago.

 

I didn't like the tone of these conversations, equating mike vick with a dumb drug dealer on the streets. Thats how it sounds. Its awful. Just give the guy a break:

 

tbimm,

I think migarvin was equating Vick's struggles last year (1st year in the WCO) to the 1st years in the WCO for all of the QB's he mentioned.

 

And if that is what he meant, then he is right.

 

Montana, Young & Garthia all struggled their 1st year in the WCO.......let alone Harrington.....who is now going on year 4.

 

That is exactly what i meant. And thankyou for your support man

 

It just came off as extremely ignorant. I'm not the biggest fan of black culture, who the hell is but the one associating sounding dumb in an interview to eventual failure in the nfl is actually the dumb one.

 

Have you seen carmello anthony or amare stoudamire talk? have you seen how ghetto dwayn wade really is?

 

i guess the bottom line is the falcons are my team! So maybe i'm biased. But how can anyone fathom having a problem with michael Vick? I mean, he is a great qb even though he hasn' t mastered a passing offense yet. He is a orgazinations marketing dream! singlehandedly responsible for turning a franchise from a cellar dwellar to a contender as well as increasing overall team revenue adn generating excitemetn for football in Atlanta

 

who can refute that?

[Bill Swerski]

ok losers. Nice disguise for MIke Vick bashing. Don't you get tired of this?

 

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Hey, another newbie with a 10-year-old's IQ. Just what we need!

 

Vick + health + first time as starter for a season = first playoff win ever in GB (2002)

 

You failed to mention Atlanta's special teams (which scored a TD on a blocked punt) and their defense (which picked off Favre twice). It was all Vick... just like it was all Elway back in '97-'98. Terrell Davis and Alex Gibbs had nothing to do with their success, either.

 

Vick + injury = altlanta having  the worst record  in the nfl after 12 games

 

They sucked both with and without Vick in '03.

 

Vick + healthy again = NFL Championship appearance

 

Yep, and it's was Vick's 2313 yds, 14 TDs, 10 INT, 54% completion percentage, and 78 QB rating that carried them. It had nothing to do with the fact that Duckett and Dunn combined for over 1,600 rushing yds (4.55 yds/carry) and 17 rushing TDs. And it was real tough for them to make the playoffs in the highly-competitve NFC last year, right? I mean, my God, how did they ever get past those 8-8 Rams?

 

So he doesn't have a vocab and is pretty ghetto - last time i checked mcnabb is in the same boat: the difference being mcnabb is mad charismatic

 

The only similarity between Vick and McNabb is the color of their skin. McNabb doesn't dress and speak like an idiot during interviews. McNabb has also been a much more prolific passer with lesser WR talent than Vick.

 

Vicks been playing football his whole life, football smarts are different than education or even IQ

 

Idiots like Jeff George and Ryan Leaf do not become stellar NFL QBs, especially

when they have to run the WCO. Oh, and they're both white and stupid, so there goes your "racist" argument.

 

Warren Moon and Randal Cunningham have both been successful nfl qb's. Maybe Swerski can keep his racist posts to himself - no need to draw  a comparison   between White Quaterbacks (marino, elway, kelly, etc.) and success while also associating black culture (Mike vick having a doo rag and sounding dumb) to lack of wit and ultimate failure.  

 

Only idiots who can't make intelligent arguments pull out the race card.

 

Warren Moon and Randall (sp) Cunningham were both very good NFL QBs, but not in the same league as Manning, Marino, Aikman, Elway, Young, Montana, Kelly, etc. That has nothing to do with race. FWIW, IMO, McNabb is on his way to becoming as good a QB as Jim Kelly was.

 

What are you trying to say man? I hate the discriminatory tones in your posts  and the morons who respond in support

 

The "discriminatory tones" that you speak of exist only in your head.

 

I never said that blacks aren't smart enough to be elite NFL QBs. Don't fu@king put those words in my mouth, you lowlife piece of crap.

 

Let me guess - most of you are from the midwest and most of you also are pro George Bush.  I love this country

 

And let me guess - You're a minority from the obnoxiously-liberal city of Atlanta who wants a governemnt that will supply you with a welfare check while you sit on your lazy, uneducated a$$ and drink malt liquor all day.

 

See, I can stereotype as well.

 

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Edited July 27, 2005 by Bill Swerski

[Ruffian]

But how can anyone fathom having a problem with michael Vick? I mean, he is a great qb even though he hasn' t mastered a passing offense yet. He is a orgazinations marketing dream! singlehandedly responsible for turning a franchise from a cellar dwellar to a contender as well as increasing overall team revenue adn generating excitemetn for football in Atlanta[/b]

 

who can refute that?

 

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I can.

He has done some good things on the field, but let us not forget the Ron Mexico experience. It wasn't the Donovan McNasty experience, Peyton Mooning experience or Duante Culpecker experience. Those guys didn't pull a move like that and then invent a ridiculous name to hide their stupidity (and yes, it is sheer studpidity. Don't attempt to refute that portion of my argument.) That alone indicates a lack of intelliegence. Good luck marketing him as a role model after that blowout. He'll be popular, but he won't be the face of the NFL anymore. It could have been him, but he dropped the ball (pardon the pun).

 

His inability to win the big one (i.e. NFC championship) can be traced to a few factors.

1. He has a weak receiving corps. No question that quartet leaves something to be desired. Roddy White could be a beginning, but even when the Falcon WRs were open, accuracy wasn't Vick's strongest suit. Alge Crumpler can't be the only open receiver on the field on every passing down.

2. He tries to do too much. At times, Vick can be amazing. No arguing his talent on the field when he gets into space. But he also managed to get hurt doing that. When you pay a player that kind of money, he's got to be a bit more aware that the fortunes of the team fall on his shoulders. As Vick goes, so go the Falcons. Without him, they are unable to win the close ones that make a team a contender. Furthermore, those flying triple axel dives into the end zone are really cool to watch, but they do not make for a long life in the NFL. How many of those can he take before he ends up holding a clipboard again?

3. He doesn't make good reads. He has struggled to learn the playbook--and the WCO is a difficult system for anyone. But it requires discipline, and from where I am sitting, he lacks it. If he doesn't like what he sees, he runs. In the WCO, he's afforded a selection of routes and lanes from which he can choose. He's got to stay in the pocket and let the system work for him.

Edited July 27, 2005 by Ruffian

[migarvin]

And let me guess - You're a minority from the obnoxiously-liberal city of Atlanta who wants a governemnt that will supply you with a welfare check while you sit on your lazy, uneducated a$$ and drink malt liquor all day.

 

Thanks for proving my point.

 

McNabb has also been a much more prolific passer with lesser WR talent than Vick.

 

Shawn jefferson, alvis whitted quentin mccord, brian finneran, peerless price, dez white

 

darn that's prolific - oh wait your about to go post about how i forgot crumpler

 

Nah - chad lewis has been a probowl tight end like crumpler up until last year, and the fact brian westbrook is the best receiving running back in the nfl gives you little doubt but to conclude mcnabb has more weapons than vick does. OH WAIT WHAT ABOUT PEERLESS PRICE, LIKE HE"S ALMOST AS GOOD AS TERREL OWENS RIGHT?

 

Look at Vick's record as a starter and the falcons record without him.

 

Lets get technical - when mcnabb was hurt AJ feeley came in and ran the offense pretty efficiently. He gets traded to miami and absolutely blows. Are you still following me? hopefully you can deduce from the equation that maybe philly's offense was not so bad. Okay, follow me to the falcons and see what happens when qb's start in place of vick. Lets see. Hmm? Doug Johnson was amazing right?. Kurt Kittner. He's still in the nfl becuase he did such a great job replacing vick. oh and matt schaub was remarkable last year in the last few games.

 

You failed to mention Atlanta's special teams (which scored a TD on a blocked punt) and their defense (which picked off Favre twice). It was all Vick... just like it was all Elway back in '97-'98. Terrell Davis and Alex Gibbs had nothing to do with their success, either. rolleyes.gif

 

That is irrelevant. All i said was vick lead his team to a playoff win is his first year as a starter. Not once did i say he did it alone. But was he as bad as the GREAT BRETT FAVRE in that game? Did Vick hinder his teams effort to win. Did he play poorly? Michael Vick didn't put up impressive numbers or make any game-breaking plays, but he continually escaped from the Green Bay pass rush and made plays when it appeared there were none. He completed 13-of-25 passes for 117 yards and one touchdown and added 64 yards on the ground.

 

They sucked both with and without Vick in '03. they were actually 3-1 in the games vick played at the end of the year. Check you records buddy

 

Yep, and it's was Vick's 2313 yds, 14 TDs, 10 INT, 54% completion percentage, and 78 QB rating that carried them. It had nothing to do with the fact that Duckett and Dunn combined for over 1,600 rushing yds

 

how about the 903 yards rushing on the ground. Now who's the one leaving out details?

 

lets move on - after this year there should be no more discussions about vick's talent

[PantherDave]

Way to much wind blowing about a QB and a team that won't even win thier division this year. Kids had my Cat's number-no question there, but that will be laid to rest this season as the Panthers take the next step Defensively-control Vick and the NFC South and become the NFL's # 1 ranked D.

[Bill Swerski]

Thanks for proving my point.

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And thanks for allowing me to expose you as a race-baiting idiot. I can return the favor by showing you how to use the "quote" function.

 

Shawn jefferson, alvis whitted quentin mccord, brian finneran, peerless price, dez white

 

Freddie Mitchell, Todd Pinkson, James Thrash, Na Brown. In the pre-TO era, Don could throw for 3,000+ yds and 20+ TDs with that cast of clowns. What's Ron Mexico's excuse?

 

Nah - chad lewis has been a probowl tight end like crumpler up until last year, and the fact brian westbrook is the best receiving running back in the nfl gives you little doubt but to conclude mcnabb has more weapons than vick does. OH WAIT WHAT ABOUT PEERLESS PRICE, LIKE HE"S ALMOST AS GOOD AS TERREL OWENS RIGHT?

 

Look at McNabb's passing stats in the pre-TO era. They easily trump anything that Vick has done.

 

Look at Vick's record as a starter and the falcons record without him.

 

Wow, those are some serious analysis skills. Did you have to go to college to learn that?

 

So, I guess that the Pats only win because of Brady, right? Their sucess has nothing to do with Belichick, Crennell, Weiss, Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison, Seymour, McGinness, etc.

 

Lets get technical - when mcnabb was hurt  AJ feeley came in and ran the offense pretty efficiently.

 

And, unlike Vick, Feeley actually knows how to read a defense and throw to receivers.

 

You failed to mention Atlanta's special teams (which scored a TD on a blocked punt) and their defense (which picked off Favre twice). It was all Vick... just like it was all Elway back in '97-'98. Terrell Davis and Alex Gibbs had nothing to do with their success, either. rolleyes.gif

 

That is irrelevant.

 

No, it's not irrelevant. TEAMS get into the playoffs. One player can't do it alone.

 

how about the 903 yards rushing on the ground. Now who's the one leaving out details?

 

Oooh, and that really helped him against Philly, where he rushed for 26 yds, but only threw for 136 (0 TDs, 1 INT). QBs are supposed to be effective passers, not halfbacks who can't read coverages.

 

lets move on - after this year there should be no more discussions about vick's talent

 

Until he becomes a competent passer, there will always be. There's no doubt that Vick's a difference-maker, but only a moron would argue that the Falcons win simply because of him.

[Ruffian]

The race sh*t doesn't fly in here. Seriously. Most huddlers could care less what color you or a player happens to be. But stupidity knows no color (please see Ryan Leaf) and that is always subject to scrutiny. To make a blanket statement that anyone who thinks Vick is a poor speaker must be a bigot is as ridiculous as saying anyone who listens to classical music must be wealthy and white. Run that one by Dhani Jones or Robert Smith.

[Bill Swerski]

The race sh*t doesn't fly in here. Seriously. Most huddlers could care less what color you or a player happens to be. But stupidity knows no color (please see Ryan Leaf) and that is always subject to scrutiny. To make a blanket statement that anyone who thinks Vick is a poor speaker must be a bigot is as ridiculous as saying anyone who listens to classical music must be wealthy and white. Run that one by Dhani Jones or Robert Smith.

 

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I can't think of a more irresponsible, immature way of disagreeing with someone than calling them a "racist."

[NAUgrad]

Ouch!!! Rook is taking a beating.

 

Vick is no great QB yet. The light might shine and he may someday figure it out, but his is not a great QB.

[PantherDave]

Well said Ruff, fantastic stereotype Ski about Atlanta residents. This is a great place to talk football, talk smack, to agree and disagree about football, football teams and players. Some people just can't stand the fact that some people may just not like or think their hero is the greatest. To each his own I reckon...well I'm going to continue to pull for my brainless cajun.....now let this redneck(I'm from NC so I must be???) hop in his 4X4, go pick up some BBQ, case of RC Cola.....darn I'm outta moonpies again!!!!!!! Peace PD.

[Ruffian]

I can't think of a more irresponsible, immature way of disagreeing with someone than calling them a "racist."

 

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Agreed.

[1stimer]

I can't think of a more irresponsible, immature way of disagreeing with someone than calling them a "racist."

 

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good info here

[Clubfoothead]

The dude I buy my crack from is probably smarter than Mike Vick.

[migarvin]

i guess i have more important things to do than post on this board and take people's words out of context and distort them. This can go on all day. So this will be it for me, but i'm sure you will have a response that i'll ignore

 

And, unlike Vick, Feeley actually knows how to read a defense and throw to receivers.

- you sure you don't want to retract that becuase it just highlights you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Lets see i'm sure mcnabb enjoys having 2 pro bowlers at offensive tackle in Runyan and Tre Thomas. Do you know who protects Vick

 

Some guy named Weener and some guy named Thompson - neither a first round pick. But that doesn't

 

Does that give you any insight into Mcnabbs ability to get a pass off vs VICK?

 

Mcnabb is good and so is Vick. Teams win with solid quaterbacks. Brady has every right to claim he's the best qb in the nfl because he gets it done. He is the main reason they won the superbowl 3 times. He's so cool under pressure, more than anyone else that i can think of. I know its tough to read into stats and records becasue they are pretty much objective. Its tough to see that the falcons are an awesome team with Vick at the helm. YOu love your boy Mcnabb

and he's a good player. But when Vick won in GB at age 22 in the playoffs, Mcnabb was still partying in Syracuse. Try to look at things holistically, hopefully you know what that means. If you seriously belive Vick is not a nightmare to game plan for, a marketing gem, a player that exudes confidence that captivates his teamates and an entire city (just live mcnabb). Then you're not paying much attention

 

Please stop picking one or two examples in which to refute an arguement. Its childish and doesn't demonstrate anything but your narrow minded view of the subject. I'm just asking to admit what type of player Mike Vick is.

 

Its childish to say that Mike Vick had a bad game against Philly and it would make me a child to point out how Mcnabb lacks the wit to manage what most likely will amount to his most significant 4th quater in his career. He blew it big time in the superbowl :doah:

 

Time will Tell my friend and you'll soon understand.

[Donutrun Jellies]

If any of the "on the bubble" QBs put up Mike Vick-ish numbers this year in QB rating, turnovers, and completion percentage, they'd be drummed out to the Arena Football League. Atlanta's built tooo much of the franchise/future on him to take that kind of action.

 

Until Vick improves his own skills, he's just a stronger, faster KStew with a better hype machine -- a tremendous athlete, an average quarterback, and one capable of playing on a winning team if the other pieces are all in place. The turnovers and incompletions are simply killers on his road from great athlete to great quarterback.

 

And get this -- I was a huge Kordell fan and really like Vick as an athlete and love his potential. Nothing racist about it ... he's just got to clean up those two aspects of his game. I still wish KStew had stayed slash with Maddox at QB ...

[Bill Swerski]

But when Vick won in GB at age 22 in the playoffs, Mcnabb was still partying in Syracuse. 

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Um, no, McNabb left Syracuse in 1999. Way to "drop that mad football knowledge" on me.

 

I'm sure you also recall that McNabb kicked Vick's ass 20-6 the following week. Vick was his usual self, scoring 0 TDs and throwing two picks.

 

Try to look at things holistically, hopefully you know what that means.

 

You obviously don't.

 

If you seriously belive Vick is not a nightmare to game plan for, a marketing gem, a player that exudes confidence that captivates his teamates and an entire city (just live mcnabb).  Then you're not paying much attention

 

I agree with all that, but he'll never be a solid NFL QB and he'll never go to a SB until he learns how to read coverages.

 

Time will Tell my friend and you'll soon understand.

 

So, from our discourse this afternoon, what I understand that people who (1) are from the Midwest, (2) voted for Bush, and (3) don't think that Vick is a good QB are racists.

 

From that, I can conclude that you're a nimrod. Have a nice day.

Edited July 27, 2005 by Bill Swerski

[Ruffian]

Turn out the lights on the way out. Drive safely.

[Big Score 1]

Feeley actually knows how to read a defense and throw to receivers.

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Now that's funny Edited July 27, 2005 by Big Score 1

[Bill Swerski]

Now that's funny

 

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I wonder how Vick would've fared in Miami, with no running game and no offensive line.

[SLAYER]

 

lets move on - after this year there should be no more discussions about vick's talent

 

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Yes Vick completes 54% of his passes Falcons miss the playoffs then what are the new excuses

 

Brooks led the Saints to their only playoff victory his first year and he still sucks , must run in the family

[KnightsOfKnee]

so back to Pookie.......aw screw it.

[Big Score 1]

I wonder how Vick would've fared in Miami, with no running game and no offensive line.

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He would've been fine. Vick would've been the running game.

[CaptainHook]

What if TO got his wish and was traded to the Falcons. Mcnabb would be struggling bigtime and the Falcons would be a shoe-in for the superbowl

 

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McNabb did just fine without T.O. before last year. And they made it through the NFC play-offs without him too.

 

Vick is going to continue to struggle, because teams have figured him out. Keep him in front of you. Keep him in the pocket. Spy him with a couple linebackers. You can afford to do that because he can't read defenses. He is a much more dangerous player on the run. Until he learns to throw from the pocket, his passing numbers are not going to be very good.

[Chavez]

Bottom line, a QB who has as many 100 yd rushing games as 200 yd passing games (that's correct - 200 as in "average", not 300 as in "nice day") is most likely a darn good athlete but not much of a threat to beat you passing the ball.

[Ruffian]

Michael Vick's new video game

 

Now that the laughing fits are concluded, I must share this with his defender. I give you--the Redhawks and Ron Mexico. I'm sure it is all coincidence.

 

HILARIOUS.

Edited July 28, 2005 by Ruffian