keggerz Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 This is an excellent piece by Scott Kacsmar that will make those that call Peyton a choker rethink their position. Actually, no it won't because people make their minds up and that is it, but still it's a good read as Kacsmar makes some great points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Some people just love hating guys like Manning. While he may get more scrutiny on this particular point (the team he is on losing playoff games) many QBs get that "they won/lost" sort of tag. The NFL is the ultimate team sport, with so many players contributing, lots of different coaches at positions, etc. Good read (what I had time for). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) 8 times he has been one and done in the playoffs, 5 of those at home. I'm a hugh fan but it will change where I rank him in my mind. If Bradshaw is top 10 based on his 4 SB wins, it has to knock Manning down. He has more skills than Montana but Montana did so much more with what he had. As an example Almost Marino like He also has something like 21 INTs in 22 games. I forget the exact number but this is a guy who throws maybe 10 during the regular season. Terrible in the playoffs which is weird since he has lead so many 4th quarter comebacks. Edited January 16, 2013 by Zooty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boltnlava Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I Hate to say it but I think it does. Talented guy with a ticket to the HOF but...what could have been bothers me a bit. Can it be everyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 This is an excellent piece by Scott Kacsmar that will make those that call Peyton a choker rethink their position. Actually, no it won't because people make their minds up and that is it, but still it's a good read as Kacsmar makes some great points. Great read, and if you look through the archives, I have made the exact same arguments for all of Peyton's losses. But after the home loss to the Jets two years ago, I threw in the towel. Yes, there are plenty of excuses for being one-and-done, but if you are the best player on the field (or in the NFL) you're gonna make some plays that pull some of those out. And he hasn't done that. He does in the regular season, but not in the playoffs. Off the top of my head, I remember two games where Peyton came through in a close game. At Kansas City and the AFC Championship game vs the Patriots. The rest of the time, he came up small, or cruised to big wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 It won't mean much to me. The greatest regular season QB I've ever seen, and he does have a Super Bowl. I do remember him cruising through the first playoff game or two in a few seasons and everybody being all over his jock, I said to my friends "we still haven't seen what happens when adversity comes". Sure enough, he would play the Pats or another great team and kind of throw up on himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 To me he is no worse than one of the Top 5 quarterbacks who ever played and if someone thinks he was the best I would not argue against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 8 times he has been one and done in the playoffs, 5 of those at home. I'm a hugh fan but it will change where I rank him in my mind. If Bradshaw is top 10 based on his 4 SB wins, it has to knock Manning down. He has more skills than Montana but Montana did so much more with what he had. As an example Almost Marino like He also has something like 21 INTs in 22 games. I forget the exact number but this is a guy who throws maybe 10 during the regular season. Terrible in the playoffs which is weird since he has lead so many 4th quarter comebacks. Curious where you've heard that. I was too young to pay that much attention during Bradshaw's playing career, but I've never thoght of him as a great QB, certainly not top 10 all time. Doesn't matter how many SB he has, the Steelers were built on defense. Montana was great, and not just because of his SB wins. Also wonder how people would feel if Manning hadn't thrown that late game INT, would he still be the focus of failure because he had chances to get his team a score in OT and failed? Just seems like too much blame/praise is given to the QB. Guys like Manning and Marino were/are great, their TEAMS ability to win titles doesn't reflect that. The great Elway wasn't able to win a SB despite 3 tries in the 80s, until he got a good running game (possibly better defense too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papajohn Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 It should, but it doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriots Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I think whenever Manning is out there his team has a shot to win. Thats really all you can ask for, right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 During my era of watching football: 1. Manning 2. Montana 3. Brady 4. Marino 5. Elway 6. Moon 7. Fouts 8. Kelly 9. Young 10. Favre 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Haters will always be haters & most of them just talk crap as a way of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Under 500 playoff record and 8 one and outs just cant be ignored no matter how you slice it. I think he is one of the best I have ever seen but cant put him in Brady/ Montana land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) I used to think Manning was the guy, the best I ever saw play. I made excuses for his playoff record and went by the 'eye' test. The eye test is starting to remember the mistakes more in line with the successes. There is no excuse to lose at home to the Joe Flacco lead Ravens in a playoff game with them playing on a short week and having been spotted not one, but 2 special teams TDs. I am not down on Joe Flacco the way many people are, but he's not "great". He's good, but not really capable of carrying a team the way Brady carries the Pats. Manning is supposed to be that great, but it seems that his back can't handle the weight. It's been proven over an over. Amazing in the regular season. Chokes on the football when the pressure mounts. I can't ignore it anymore. Edited January 16, 2013 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 This is an excellent piece by Scott Kacsmar that will make those that call Peyton a choker rethink their position. Actually, no it won't because people make their minds up and that is it, but still it's a good read as Kacsmar makes some great points. IMO all you need to read is that Manning put up 16, 17 (in OT), 0, 18, 24, 17, 16, 35 (in OT, 2 special teams TDs) points in those losses. Sure, it's a team game, this player did that, the other player did another thing, etc., but the fact is that the offense did not score what they needed to in those games. They fell short with Manning in the lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgTalk Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) Manning may be 9-11 in playoffs, but how many of those playoff runs started with a first round bye because of him? If you have him play in those weaker wildcard games, his 9-11 easily could be switched to a more meaningful win loss record. I think it is horribly unfair to use this stat line against him. Edited January 16, 2013 by DawgTalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Manning may be 9-11 in playoffs, but how many of those playoff runs started with a first round bye because of his? If you have him play in those weaker wildcard games, his 9-11 easily could be switched to a more meaningful win loss record. I think it is horribly unfair to use this stat line against him. "You are what your record says you are" - Bill Parcells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgTalk Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 "You are what your record says you are" - Bill Parcells Says a man talking about a team record in the regular season....comparing apples to oranges. Not the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Says a man talking about a team record in the regular season....comparing apples to oranges. Not the same thing. Compare that to what Manning has done and tell me he is in the same class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Manning may be 9-11 in playoffs, but how many of those playoff runs started with a first round bye because of him? If you have him play in those weaker wildcard games, his 9-11 easily could be switched to a more meaningful win loss record. I think it is horribly unfair to use this stat line against him. This just says he wasn't leading very good teams to victory in the playoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgTalk Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Without Bill Belichick, Tom Brady would never be Tom Brady. Matt Cassel is a prime example of the system, not the QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Without Bill Belichick, Tom Brady would never be Tom Brady. Matt Cassel is a prime example of the system, not the QB. the year Matt Cassel played is the only year since 2002 that the team did not win the division and make the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I used to think Manning was the guy, the best I ever saw play. I made excuses for his playoff record and went by the 'eye' test. The eye test is starting to remember the mistakes more in line with the successes. There is no excuse to lose at home to the Joe Flacco lead Ravens in a playoff game with them playing on a short week and having been spotted not one, but 2 special teams TDs. I am not down on Joe Flacco the way many people are, but he's not "great". He's good, but not really capable of carrying a team the way Brady carries the Pats. Manning is supposed to be that great, but it seems that his back can't handle the weight. It's been proven over an over. Amazing in the regular season. Chokes on the football when the pressure mounts. I can't ignore it anymore. Says the guy who happens to root for the team with the "other" all-time great that he will always be compared to. When Manning was out, the same team that he was consistently taking to 11-14 wins could barely win a game. When Brady was out, Matt Cassel, who has proven to be below average, did very well steering the ship. Brady is one of the greatest QB's of all-time, but, he has easily played on more talented teams and for a more talented coach. I still believe that Manning is the greatest QB that I've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Says the guy who happens to root for the team with the "other" all-time great that he will always be compared to. When Manning was out, the same team that he was consistently taking to 11-14 wins could barely win a game. When Brady was out, Matt Cassel, who has proven to be below average, did very well steering the ship. Brady is one of the greatest QB's of all-time, but, he has easily played on more talented teams and for a more talented coach. I still believe that Manning is the greatest QB that I've ever seen. As a long timer, you might recall that I have been on the other side of this argument on these boards, previous to this point in time. Use the search function if you can not recall. I stated as much in my first sentence. My mind is changed, and IMO that history makes your criticism of my position a bit disingenuous. And BTW, the Colts clearly, deeply tanked last season to get luck. They did everything they could to not win a game and fully planned on cleaning house completely after the season, which they did. It was a lame duck team to the core. Everyone knows it, and it makes the comparison of the two situations utterly ridiculous. Belichick would never, ever wave the white flag like that. It would completely undermine his message that nobody is more important than the team and that they can succeed if the players available to play just do their job. You know this as well, which makes me think you are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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