Big Country Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 So, I was playing a bit on Darin's favorite place, PokerStars, when I made a huge poker taboo... I started educating at the table after a guy called me out for garbage play. Anyway, basically I hit my hand on the river, and this guy tries to lecture me on being lucky and ignorant. Unfortunately, I didnt copy the chat soon enough to catch it all, but it's funny to see some other member of the table jump in on my side after a little while. Here is the hand in question.... key point, I just took a real big hit when I hit a 9 high straight and my opponent ended up hitting a jack high straight, so I am fairly short stacked (this is a cash game, not tourney) At start of the hand, I only have $6.10 on the table I am dealt pocket 10's and raised preflop from a quarter to a dollar, had two callers. Flop is 10, 9, 7 all diamonds. Not bad, I did hit my set, but i certainly wished it was a rainbow flop. SO, with $3 in the pot, I bet out $1.25. Both players call. Turn is a killer.. a 4th diamond, the 3. I check, first player bets $3 (I only have $3.85 left at this point), and the second player makes it $9. Now, I know they both likely have flushes, but, with 13 outs and getting better than 4 to 1 on my money, it's a mandatory call. River is beautiful, I hit the 7 of clubs. Take down the main pot of about $18 after the rake is taken out. THis is when the guy with the Ace of diamonds comments on my luck and lack of poker acumen. THe following chat occurs (picks up right after I have said getting about 4 to 1 with 14 outs (I actually had 13, but counted two tens in my head at the time)). I am acarey, the loser is dmack and the others are people in the room. dmack24: 14 outsdmack24: what dmack24: You had no diamonds acarey: any pairing opf the board.. acarey: i obviously wasnt playing for a diamond, I was playing for a pairing of the board dmack24: Lots of hopes and wishes on 1 card acarey: well, any one of 14 was fine with me dmack24: Let's do it 100 times where I have an ace high flush in hand vs a draw acarey: you would win most of the time, but, when it costs me $3 to win $17, I end up ahead ever time dmack24: no brainer dmack24: for me dmack24: had the nuts 123smile: you did not have the nuts acarey: actually, with 79T on board, the straight flush was the nuts 123smile: shut up already dmack24: no one bet it acarey: sorry 123... my bad 123smile: no its ok, iwas talking to dmack acarey: no no, my bad for educating acarey: costing all of us money ;-) thrillmill: lol 123smile: =) dmack ended up losing his roll, rebuying and then leaving after losing another $10 or so. But, it is fun to play in the low limits from time to time. WHile doing this, Iwas winning about $100 in a 2/4 game on Party Poker (yes, Istay to low limits, like ot keep it recreational and I don't have the disposable income to risk more at the higher limits) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark5 Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Plenty of people have "Lucked out" on the river but with 13 outs I see no problem to keep playing. It's happened to me both ways. I've played with people who NEVER folded even when they had total crap cards the whole hand (makes it hard, if not impossible to bluff). He was just mad his ace got shot down..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 You absolutely have to make that call based on your outs and pot odds. That is a no brainer even though you are beat unless you catch it on the river. However, I may be missing something here but I believe you only had 10 outs available to you: 1-the case 10 3-9's 3-7's 3-3's That makes 10 outs to get your boat to beat his Ace High flush. Where are the other 3 outs coming from that you are counting? Secondly, I never give poker lessons at the table. Never! Even if its some idiot ass who doesnt understand the game with any great depth who is yelling at me for making a dumb play. I just usually say that I got lucky. If you educate players at the table you do 2 things, both of which are bad. First you are making ALL of the other people at the table aware that you are very knowledgeable about the game. They may leave the table realizing they are playing with a better player. They will be very leary of you and will be watching you closely. They will take copious notes on you. And you have just scared a bunch of fish away from a once stocked and profitable pond. Secondly, you are educating everybody at the table about the game of poker. Why would you want to do that if you are trying to win their money? Just not a good thing to do although its difficult not to say something to a guy badgering you when he knows not of what he speaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 You're horrible, Big Country...you just can't hit 4-of-a-kind two hands in a row like Chief Dick to rake in some hugh pots. Shame on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 You should have moved all your chips in after the diamond flop to try to push all the signle diamonds out. Had they called you here, THEY would have made the bad call. After the turn you pretty much had to make the call considering how much you had left. And I never offer lessons either. I like them to think I don't know what I'm doing when I limp into a lot of pots. Go with Spain's advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seattle LawDawg Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 You should have moved all your chips in after the diamond flop to try to push all the signle diamonds out. Had they called you here, THEY would have made the bad call. After the turn you pretty much had to make the call considering how much you had left. And I never offer lessons either. I like them to think I don't know what I'm doing when I limp into a lot of pots. Go with Spain's advice 1265269[/snapback] Definitely. Thats a no brainer when you're getting pot odds like you were. I suppose an 8, J wasn't going to be played after preflop raises but there is nothing better than turning over the straight flush against someone holding the A high flush. Well, turning over KK vs. AA when the flop comes AKK is nice too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Cheezhead Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Spain is right on all counts. I also don't understand how you came up with 13 outs...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seattle LawDawg Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Spain is right on all counts. I also don't understand how you came up with 13 outs...? 1265380[/snapback] There were only 2 7s left. 2 on the board. (If we're talking about calling after the turn.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Cheezhead Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 There were only 2 7s left. 2 on the board. (If we're talking about calling after the turn.) 1265427[/snapback] No, there was only one 7 on the board after the turn. The 2nd 7 came on the River. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 No, there was only one 7 on the board after the turn. The 2nd 7 came on the River. 1265433[/snapback] Right He only had 10 outs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Big Country knows alot more about poker than me, so I may be missing something here. But again, he must have the board to pair to win that hand against a flush. And it looks like 10 outs is all he had. Still great odds to call the bet in that spot no doubt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 You absolutely have to make that call based on your outs and pot odds. That is a no brainer even though you are beat unless you catch it on the river. However, I may be missing something here but I believe you only had 10 outs available to you: 1-the case 10 3-9's 3-7's 3-3's That makes 10 outs to get your boat to beat his Ace High flush. Where are the other 3 outs coming from that you are counting? Secondly, I never give poker lessons at the table. Never! Even if its some idiot ass who doesnt understand the game with any great depth who is yelling at me for making a dumb play. I just usually say that I got lucky. If you educate players at the table you do 2 things, both of which are bad. First you are making ALL of the other people at the table aware that you are very knowledgeable about the game. They may leave the table realizing they are playing with a better player. They will be very leary of you and will be watching you closely. They will take copious notes on you. And you have just scared a bunch of fish away from a once stocked and profitable pond. Secondly, you are educating everybody at the table about the game of poker. Why would you want to do that if you are trying to win their money? Just not a good thing to do although its difficult not to say something to a guy badgering you when he knows not of what he speaks. 1265142[/snapback] You should have moved all your chips in after the diamond flop to try to push all the signle diamonds out. Had they called you here, THEY would have made the bad call. After the turn you pretty much had to make the call considering how much you had left. And I never offer lessons either. I like them to think I don't know what I'm doing when I limp into a lot of pots. Go with Spain's advice 1265269[/snapback] I love to give poker lessons. But the information I give is all wrong so the rrest of the table thinks I'm an idiot (plus I do it in Hebrew). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 I played in our monthly Music Row Tournament last night. $50 buy-in, 27 players last night. We have 1 tournament for 9 months. At the end of the year, all the tournament winners play for the championship and some money that is taken out of each tourney pot. Anyway, we start playing with 3 tables of 9 people. I immediately notice the guy to my right, whom I havent met before, is in alot of pots. I mean, he is in every pot and raising like crazy. After 30 minutes or so I realize this guy has no idea how to play cards. He is a maniac. He calls bets at the river, NOT RAISE, but calls bets with NOTHING. I knew I would get his money. The guy's chip stack swung wildly and but I never got into a hugh pot with him. I did take alot of his chips several times. Then came the biggest pot with us in it together. He was short stacked. He is in the SB, and I am in BB. One player calls BB, the idiot calls BB. I wake up to Big Slick. I raise to 4XBB. Both players call, with the idiot basically having to go all in. I am sure I will get his money, the other guy, I have no idea. Flop comes K 4 4. With that much money out there, I want to isolate the pot between me and the idiot, so I go all in with top pair, top kicker right there. The other guy thinks about it and calls me! He flips over his cards and has K8 suited! Thank God he called since I have him outkicked. The idiot flips over pocket rockets!! So, I lost the main pot to him but won the side pot with the other guy. After that the idiot starting accumulating chips at a tremendous rate and was the massive chip leader by the time we got to the final table. More later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 You're right.. 10 outs.... I was not thinking right...lol.. it had been a long day and it was a real cheap tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 In my local 1-2 limit game last week I had A-K off suit, on the button ... checked around to me before the flop, I raised ... 2 callers. Flop A-A-10 I'm thinking I hit the jack pot. The player to my left bets, the player in the middle calls, I raise ... both call. Turn 7 (with no flush draw) Everybody checks around to me, I bet ... the guy on my left calls the other one folds. River card K Now I have the nuts, I bet, he raises, I re-raise, he re-raises, I re-raise ... he finally gets an inkling he is in trouble and calls. He had pocket 10s and had flopped a boat 10s over Aces. Had I been in his shoes I would have bet and raised every chance I had along the way instead of the passive calling he did. As it turns out it was unlikely that he would have been able to push me out of the pot but he should have tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 In my local 1-2 limit game last week I had A-K off suit, on the button ... checked around to me before the flop, I raised ... 2 callers. Flop A-A-10 I'm thinking I hit the jack pot. The player to my left bets, the player in the middle calls, I raise ... both call. Turn 7 (with no flush draw) Everybody checks around to me, I bet ... the guy on my left calls the other one folds. River card K Now I have the nuts, I bet, he raises, I re-raise, he re-raises, I re-raise ... he finally gets an inkling he is in trouble and calls. He had pocket 10s and had flopped a boat 10s over Aces. Had I been in his shoes I would have bet and raised every chance I had along the way instead of the passive calling he did. As it turns out it was unlikely that he would have been able to push me out of the pot but he should have tried. 1265827[/snapback] Reminds of day 1 of the WSOP coverage. Guy playing 10-10 vs Sammy Farha who has A-10. Same flop. Dude busts out on the 1st hand of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted January 15, 2006 Author Share Posted January 15, 2006 Reminds of day 1 of the WSOP coverage. Guy playing 10-10 vs Sammy Farha who has A-10.Same flop. Dude busts out on the 1st hand of the day. 1265830[/snapback] THat was Goldie Hawn's son (I think that's right) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 THat was Goldie Hawn's son (I think that's right) 1265841[/snapback] I think you are right. I don't watch much of that coverage but that is one that I sure did see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 I think you are right. I don't watch much of that coverage but that is one that I sure did see. 1265846[/snapback] No it was Kate Hudson's brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted January 15, 2006 Author Share Posted January 15, 2006 No it was Kate Hudson's brother 1265850[/snapback] Either way, that is one mother-daughter team that I would let tag team me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Either way, that is one mother-daughter team that I would let tag team me. 1265851[/snapback] I dated a chick that's the spitting image of Kate Hudson. :sigh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted January 15, 2006 Author Share Posted January 15, 2006 I dated a chick that's the spitting image of Kate Hudson.:sigh: 1265853[/snapback] Sorry to hear she was a spitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 I dated a chick that spits like Kate Hudson.:sigh: 1265853[/snapback] Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big F'n Dave Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 You're right.. 10 outs.... I was not thinking right...lol.. it had been a long day and it was a real cheap tournament. 1265562[/snapback] 10 outs and you stayed? That changes everything. Amateur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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