Bush a likely Hold out

[Bronco Billy]

Finally some truth within this thread. Thank you!

 

Truth? Truth lies in the eyes of the beholder, I guess. There are other truths in this thread, but only if someone wants to read them.

 

If I had Bush's ability & I were in his position, I'd have my rearend in camp ASAP, trying to learn everything I could while making my high profile impact. Now that may mean that I'd have to stoop to signing a 6 year contract worth only $49,000,000, including a $20,000,000 signing bonus. I know that after everyone takes their cut including Uncle Sam that I'd only have say $8,000,000 or so to live on even if my leg were amputated in the first play of training camp, but then I'd consider the potential benefit of learning everything I possibily could to earn that money as well as the good will that would translate into endorsements, meaning that if I were able to play say 6 years before I retired I'd end up pocketing in excess of $50,000,000 after taxes.

 

Yeah, I think I could manage to squeek through the next 50 years of my life on that paltry sum after investments and still have a bit left over to leave to my kids.

 

Maybe you and everyone else couldn't, but I think I could manage....

Edited July 20, 2006 by Bronco Billy

[rajncajn]

Truth? Truth lies in the eyes of the beholder, I guess. There are other truths in this thread, but only if someone wants to read them.

 

If I had Bush's ability & I were in his position, I'd have my rearend in camp ASAP, trying to learn everything I could while making my high profile impact. Now that may mean that I'd have to stoop to signing a 6 year contract worth only $49,000,000, including a $20,000,000 signing bonus. I know that after everyone takes their cut including Uncle Sam that I'd only have say $8,000,000 or so to live on even if my leg were amputated in the first play of training camp, but then I'd consider the potential benefit of learning everything I possibily could to earn that money as well as the good will that would translate into endorsements, meaning that if I were able to play say 6 years before I retired I'd end up pocketing in excess of $50,000,000 after taxes.

 

Yeah, I think I could manage to squeek through the next 50 years of my life on that paltry sum after investments and still have a bit left over to leave to my kids.

 

Maybe you and everyone else couldn't, but I think I could manage....

 

Do you have a link to the report that says what the Bush camp is asking for? I'm curious where your info is coming from.

Edited July 20, 2006 by rajncajn

[CBizzie]

Does anyone know where I can find a list of all the 1st round draft picks signed so far this year other than Mario Williams or just a list of all rookies drafted and their contract status?

 

 

This is wayyyy off thread topic but I found out two weeks ago (through one of those freakish coincidences) that Ferguson had signed with the Jets w/ a $10mil signing bonus already. Hopefully I wasn't just skipping over it, but I searched it online and found nothing, which led me to ponder how long teams wait to announce signings of rookies to possibly get other teams to pay their draft picks more money?? Just a thought, but then the counter argument would arise that the first player would be losing out if others drafted below him might end up making more by not announcing his deal. I guess this is why each position is "annointed" a general salary even before the player is drafted.

[Bronco Billy]

Do you have a link to the report that says what the Bush camp is asking for? I'm curious where your info is coming from.

 

 

My information is taken by decreasing the contract that Mario Williams signed by about 10%, which would be slot appropriate for this year.

[rajncajn]

Some contract figures from previous years posted on SaintsReport.com.

Originally posted by Wahoo

Here are the cases going back to 2000 where the overall #1's contract is not clearly better than the #2, #3, and/or #4 overalls:

 

2000

1.01 - Courtney Brown - 6 years, up to $45 million ($10.9 million signing bonus)

1.02 - Lavar Arrington - 6 years, up to $50 million ($10.75 million signing bonus)

1.03 - Chris Samuels - 6 years, up to $47 million ($10 million signing bonus)

 

2003

1.01 - Carson Palmer - 7 years (voidable to 6), $49 million ($10.01 million in total bonuses)

1.04 - Dewayne Robertson - 7 years, up to $54 million ($13 million in total bonuses)

 

2004

1.01 - Eli Manning - 6 years, up to $54 million ($20 million in bonuses)

1.02 - Robert Gallery - 7 years, up to $60 million ($18.5 million in bonuses)

1.03 - Larry Fitzgerald - 6 years, up to $60 million ($20 million in bonuses)

 

Also, wanted to add 2005, where the Alex Smith contract was tops, but the 3rd and 4th picks got deals worth more than the #2:

 

2005

1.02 - Ronnie Brown - 5 years, $33.67 million ($19.58 million guaranteed)

1.03 - Braylon Edwards - 5 years, up to $40 million ($18 million guaranteed)

1.04 - Cedric Benson - 5 years, $35 million ($18 million guaranteed)

 

**All data from: Pro Football Weekly

So...is it all that inconcievable that the #2 pick be paid more than the #1?

[Sgt. Ryan]

Calm down Rajn, you are goiong to blow your nut.

[rajncajn]

My information is taken by decreasing the contract that Mario Williams signed by about 10%, which would be slot appropriate for this year.

 

But can you provide me with a link that tells what the Bush camp is asking for? You've said several times in this thread how much they are asking for...I'd like to see a link if you can find it.

[rajncajn]

Calm down Rajn, you are goiong to blow your nut.

 

Too late.

[Jumpin Johnies]

Do you have a link to the report that says what the Bush camp is asking for? I'm curious where your info is coming from.

 

This is from PFT so take it for what it's worth.

 

LIKELY HOLDOUT BUSH BELIEVES SAINTS PROMISED NO. 1 MONEY

 

The marketing agent for Saints rookie running back Reggie Bush predicts that the former Trojan tailback will miss the opening of the team's training camp.

 

"Do we feel like he'll be there at the start?" Mike Ornstein told Michael Wallace of The Clarion-Ledger. "I'm not sure where we are right now. I'd say probably not, at this stage.

 

"We're not trying to be the bad guys," Ornstein added. "We want the Saints to live up to what they told Reggie at the draft."

 

Ornstein is referring to an alleged promise from the Saints that Reggie will be paid as if he were the No. 1 overall pick in the draft.

 

"We're confident the Saints will live up to what they stated at the beginning, that Reggie would be treated like the top pick," Ornstein said. "He's been at every camp, at every workout, out in the community. The Saints sold 15,000 season tickets the week after he was drafted. His impact has been huge."

 

Bush's football agent, Joel Segal, wouldn't comment on the status of the negotiations.

 

So if Segal isn't talking, why in the hell is Ornstein? The fact that Ornstein has been the go-to guy for Reggie Bush sound bites only reinforces the perception in league circles that Ornstein is calling the shots, and that Segal is in play merely because he's certified by the NFLPA to represent Bush in contract discussions.

 

If the Saints indeed promised Bush that he'd be paid like the No. 1 overall pick in the draft, then there should be no impediment to getting the deal done. All the Saints need to do is obtain a copy of the contract signed by Texans defensive end Mario Williams, cross out the names of the team and the player, and replace them with "New Orleans Saints" and "Reggie Bush."

 

Our guess is that the Saints made no such promise, and that the Bush camp believes that the thousands of dollars in charitable contributions that Bush has sprinkled throughout the Bayou will ensure that, if/when a pissing match unfolds over who said what and when they said it, the man on the street in New Orleans will be inclined to believe Bush.

 

After all, they're already calling him "Jesus in Cleats." Why would "Jesus in Cleats" tell anything other than the truth?

[Men In Tights]

true, and admirable...BUT, it is also just PR 101, i.e. make the city love him by turning him into "saint reggie" and force benson's hand to pay up or look like the villain. on one end, i don't care how the money/supplies/aid get to the people who deserve it most. on the other end, this "saint reggie" stuff is all just business posturing, plain and simple.

 

Very good point.

[Bronco Billy]

But can you provide me with a link that tells what the Bush camp is asking for? You've said several times in this thread how much they are asking for...I'd like to see a link if you can find it.

 

 

link

 

Williams signed a six-year contract worth $54 million. The deal includes $26.5 million in bonus money, an increase of about 10 percent over the $24 million in bonuses in the six-year, $49.5 million contract that last year's top selection, quarterback Alex Smith, signed with the San Francisco 49ers.

 

Bush had rejected a similar contract proposal from the Texans and was seeking an increase of closer to 20 percent over the bonus money in Smith's deal, said a source familiar with the negotiations, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the financial terms of the agreement had not been announced when he spoke.

 

LINK

 

That is what Houston Texans owner Bob McNair said while we interviewed him at the NFL’s Luncheon at Chelsea Piers on Thursday before the NFL Draft. (The video is at www.nflbusinessblog.com) Last night, the Texans signed North Carolina State Defensive Lineman Mario Williams to a six-year $54 million contract. He will be introduced at the 2006 NFL Draft today, and I will be there.

 

To put this in perspective, recent reports had Reggie Bush’s agent Joe Siegel asking for a signing bonus as high as $30 million.

 

That’s well over half of Mario Williams new contract, and implies that Bush’s total asking price could top $70 million.

[Bronco Billy]

Some contract figures from previous years posted on SaintsReport.com.

So...is it all that inconcievable that the #2 pick be paid more than the #1?

 

 

How many dollars are there in an "up to"? Those numbers are pretty meaningless unless we know whether the "up tos" are reasonably reachable incentives or if they are bonus clauses for things like MVP of the Super Bowl, etc.

[rattsass]

true, and admirable...BUT, it is also just PR 101, i.e. make the city love him by turning him into "saint reggie" and force benson's hand to pay up or look like the villain. on one end, i don't care how the money/supplies/aid get to the people who deserve it most. on the other end, this "saint reggie" stuff is all just business posturing, plain and simple.

 

 

ding ding ding....we have a winner!

[Bronco Billy]

Okay, let's get down to some hard numbers.

 

Based upon the contracts signed by top picks recently and what Williams signed, and what the Bush team wanted before the draft (and apparently want now), the numbers look like this:

 

Bush wants an approximate 6 year, $60 million contract with $29 million in a signing bonus.

 

New Orleans figures to be offering - based upon previous #2s, Willaims' contract, and the new agreement with the players - a 6 year, $44 million contract, with a $21.5 signing bonus.

 

Even if I'm 5% too high on what Bush is asking for, and 5% too low on what the Saints will offer - which is extremely conservative - the two sides figure to be at least $10 million apart, with $5 million of that in signing bonus.

 

You don't think that's not a chasm of immense proportions in negotiations?

Edited July 20, 2006 by Bronco Billy

[rajncajn]

Why Mario?

Since March, the Sporting News has been given inside access to the decision-making process that led to the Texans' selection of Williams. This is the story of how they arrived at what will be remembered as one of the most controversial choices in NFL draft history.

On Wednesday, the Bush camp embraces a six-year, $54 million contract but wants $28 million guaranteed; the Texans offer $26 million. Dogra also wants $28 million guaranteed. On the same day, Kubiak and Casserly decide on Williams. Both agree their defense has greater need. McNair is flying to New York; they will seek his OK inthe morning.

When McNair approves, Casserly calls Dogra. "We aren't changing our minds," he says to the agent.

 

Edit: That's a very good read BTW & gives some real, valid insight into the decision-making process that ultimately had them take Mario over Bush rather than a bunch of BS specualtion from unnamed sources & heresay.

Edited July 20, 2006 by rajncajn

[rajncajn]

When the Bush camp sent in the offer with the $28 mil signing bonus the Texans made their decision. Segal & Co. has stated repeatedly that they were never given a chance to rebutt and assumed the Texans were considering the offer.

[Bronco Billy]

When the Bush camp sent in the offer with the $28 mil signing bonus the Texans made their decision. Segal & Co. has stated repeatedly that they were never given a chance to rebutt and assumed the Texans were considering the offer.

 

 

That's good work.

 

Now, do you have a source that says NO will pay $13.5 million more in contract, with $7 million of that in signing bonus, because that's the difference between what Bush is asking for vs. what you have reported that Brown & Benson got as RBs in the #2 & #4 slots last year prorated for the year increase.

 

Good luck closing that gap, especially given the personnel on each side.

Edited July 20, 2006 by Bronco Billy

[Randall]

Never believe anything 1 week before the draft or during contract negotitions.

[rajncajn]

That's good work.

 

Now, do you have a source that says NO will pay $13.5 million more in contract, with $7 million of that in signing bonus, because that's the difference between what Bush is asking for vs. what you have reported that Brown & Benson got as RBs in the #2 & #4 slots last year prorated for the year increase.

 

Good luck closing that gap, especially given the personnel on each side.

 

I have the source saying that Saints FO said they were going to treat him like the #1 overall pick, but that's heresay as well. Regardless I don't fault him at all for trying to get a better contract. He may or may not get it, that is not the point. The point is the guy is being riled for doing what EVERY other rookie draftee does and that's to try to get as much as he possibly can. If he doesn't then he's stupid.

[Cordo]

Truth? Truth lies in the eyes of the beholder, I guess. There are other truths in this thread, but only if someone wants to read them.

 

If I had Bush's ability & I were in his position, I'd have my rearend in camp ASAP, trying to learn everything I could while making my high profile impact. Now that may mean that I'd have to stoop to signing a 6 year contract worth only $49,000,000, including a $20,000,000 signing bonus. I know that after everyone takes their cut including Uncle Sam that I'd only have say $8,000,000 or so to live on even if my leg were amputated in the first play of training camp, but then I'd consider the potential benefit of learning everything I possibily could to earn that money as well as the good will that would translate into endorsements, meaning that if I were able to play say 6 years before I retired I'd end up pocketing in excess of $50,000,000 after taxes.

 

Yeah, I think I could manage to squeek through the next 50 years of my life on that paltry sum after investments and still have a bit left over to leave to my kids.

 

Maybe you and everyone else couldn't, but I think I could manage....

 

 

Ahhh, yes, I've been waiting for this post. Very predictable. It's always easy to spend someone else's money, isn't it ? (or in this case, to say you'd take less money when there is no chance in he!! you'll ever be in a position close to this one).

[DMD]

I a player does not sign with the team that drafted him and goes into the draft the following year (not suggesting that I suspect this will happen) does the team that drafted him get any compensation?

 

 

To my knowledge no. But that never happens.

[DMD]

Never believe anything 1 week before the draft or during contract negotitions.

 

 

 

[Big John]

To my knowledge no. But that never happens.

 

QB Kelly Stoffer refused to sign with the Cardinals who drafted him in the 1st round in 1988, then was drafted by Seattle in 1989, where he signed and did not have much of a career.

[DMD]

QB Kelly Stoffer refused to sign with the Cardinals who drafted him in the 1st round in 1988, then was drafted by Seattle in 1989, where he signed and did not have much of a career.

 

 

Yeah, I could not recall the lone example that was brought up last year when Cedric "Smooth Move" Benson pulled his genius ploy.

[rhino]

After all, they're already calling him "Jesus in Cleats." Why would "Jesus in Cleats" tell anything other than the truth?

 

I'm wondering how much Jesus was paid. There's a #1 for ya'!