Bush a likely Hold out

[rajncajn]

Bush is a punk, I predicted this the day he got drafted and although it hasn't happened yet......

 

 

 

Man has no character.

 

I still don't get what gives people this impression.

 

It could very well be true, but what is it that he has done so far to warrant such ill feelings toward him? I just don't get it.

[The Vatican Hitsquad]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AkEh...=yhoo&type=lgns

"Reggie Bush not only appears headed for a contract holdout with the New Orleans Saints, but he is also toying with the idea of sitting out the entire season, a league source said."

 

If I were NO I would tell him to do just that.

My prediction for Mr. Holdout Bush.... he will be an NFL bust when and if he ever decides to play. He will end up being a complete waste of good money. Man has no character.

 

While I'm a pretty cynical guy when it comes to draft picks being named as saviors to a franchise, future Hall of Famers and Immediate Impact type players before they have ever played a down against a Pro (history is on my side) and believe there is more than a decent chance the Bush is the next Kajanna Carter, I don't get the lack of character thing. Hold outs and threats of hold outs are negotiation ploys, nothign more. He wants as much dough as possible up front and he doesn't want some Master P negotiated deal that will hav ehim in the CFL begging for cash one day.

[rajncajn]

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/9572355

 

...the news emerging this week that Bush could hold out the entire upcoming season, a rumor that crashed into cyberspace just as New Orleans Saints training camp nears, reeks of an agent ploy to put pressure on the team. Maybe the agent did not leak it directly. Maybe the agent did not leak it at all. There is just something about this that smells of attempted manipulation and high-intensity spin.

[Big Score 1]

I don't get the lack of character thing. Hold outs and threats of hold outs are negotiation ploys, nothing more. He wants as much dough as possible up front and he doesn't want some Master P negotiated deal that will hav ehim in the CFL begging for cash one day.

Been trying to say this exact same thing for about three pages now.

 

But even if his agent does hold Bush out some, it's not like this is some unprecedented turn of events.

There's plenty of historical evidence of 1st round draft picks holding out for that exact same reason.

 

Pointed out that only last year, out of the entire 1st round, only 7 1st rounders, had signed by TC.

 

But since it's Bush, the bashers are having a field day.

 

What else can you say?

[The Vatican Hitsquad]

Been trying to say this exact same thing for about three pages now.

 

But even if his agent does hold Bush out some, it's not like this is some unprecedented turn of events.

There's plenty of historical evidence of 1st round draft picks holding out for that exact same reason.

 

Pointed out that only last year, out of the entire 1st round, only 7 1st rounders, had signed by TC.

 

But since it's Bush, the bashers are having a field day.

 

What else can you say?

 

Absolutely agree. This is nothign new, and for some reason this guy has had the Eli Manning tag dropped on him, which itself wasn't fair either.

[Scooby]

Endorsements last only so long ... he's no dummy, he will be in camp for the last week.

[Big Score 1]

Absolutely agree. This is nothign new, and for some reason this guy has had the Eli Manning tag dropped on him, which itself wasn't fair either.

 

Gotta be Bush envy. That's the only thing that makes sense.

[Bronco Billy]

Gotta be Bush envy. That's the only thing that makes sense.

 

 

Who in the Seven Hells has Bush envy? Do you seriously think that anyone here thinks that Bush is getting a job that they deserve, or that posters here think they should have been drafted 2nd instead of Bush? There's no one here who competes with Bush for anything. So where exactly does the envy come from? That's like saying people rake on President Bush because they envy him, or that people bag on Tom Cruise because they envy him.

 

Couldn't it just be that people have some rational criticism or that they feel that a guy who hasn't even taken one snap in pro football is being annointed into the Pro Football Hall of Fame already by some of his sycophants?

 

Bush has some question marks about him, and his character is one of them. There is an issue with New Era that has Bush trading a rent-free house for his parents in SD as well as $100,000 in cash in exchange for promising to sign on with a firm started by owners who have significant gang ties - then renegging on the deal after the gang-banger owner of New Era spilled the beans in a parole/sentencing hearing (can't remember which). If he did so, he also placed all of his team mates at USC in jeopardy of having victories stripped, a glorious season wiped out, and future restrictions on USC. Then you have his posturing for a #5 jersey, clearly against NFL bylaws - but of course, Reggie doesn't feel those apply to him. Then he makes demands for salary/signing bonus that are so far out of line that HOU lets him slip to #2 in the draft - but of course because he's Reggie Bush, he feels that he ought to have a better contract than both last year's #1 pick - who was a QB, which traditionally draws higher contracts - and this year's #1 pick. Then you have the "no holdout" BS followed by publicity gimmicks designed to make NO management look bad because he knew that he would be making contract demands that NO wouldn't agree to. Now we have the "sit out the entire season" posturing.

 

All Reggie has shown so far is that Reggie is all about & only about Reggie. He manipulates the press & his lap dog tail hangers masterfully, all the while playing them like a fine violin for his own benefit.

 

Then we have the questions about what impact he will have in the NFL. While we hear how he is the best player to come out of the draft in a decade by those drooling over him, he still has a problem with being way too light for someone his height in the NFL, and that he made his bones against PAC 10 Ds, which are significantly less than stellar, and he did it while being surrounded by talent at USC that was vastly superior to most of his competition. JJ Arrington, who put up similar numbers to Bush against those same Ds, flopped miserably in the NFL when he proved that he couldn't run through the trash at the NFL level and was way too light to be a meaningful RB.

 

Bush made a living out of beating PAC 10 defenders to the edge & getting to the second level before any LBs or SSs could cut him off. That won't happen with great regularity against NFL LBs & SSs - they're a hell of a lot faster, savvy, and stronger than the guys he beat up on in college. IF he was so great - so much greater than everyone else on the field & the greatest to run the ball in over a decade, like he is supposed to be, then why did he surrender so many touches to LenDale White? Why was he merely average until his junior year in 2005?

 

Those are legitimate concerns. Bush has yet to prove that they aren't true. No one here knows whether they are concerns that will be born out or not. But they are rational, valid questions right now. This is, after all, a FF board, and questions about a player's past transgressions or potential holes in his game are reasonable points of discussion - especially in the off season.

 

If that offends you, and your best response is "Bush envy!" or "Bush hate!", well, I guess that's the best rebuttal you can offer - since you can't rebut anything else above with evidence - yet. Bush may be as great as some of his hard-core pimps make him out to be. But that has yet to be seen.

Edited July 26, 2006 by Bronco Billy

[Big Score 1]

Who in the Seven Hells has Bush envy?

You see it all the time.

 

"Geez these athletes are spoiled, they don't know how good they've got it. I'd play for half that money."

 

"That guy had it handed to him on a silver platter. He didn't have to work for it at all"

 

"He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth."

 

etc...etc...etc...

[Pope Flick]

Bush has some question marks about him, and his character is one of them. There is an issue with New Era that has Bush trading a rent-free house for his parents in SD in exchange for promising to sign on with a firm started by owners who have significant gang ties. If he did so, he also placed all of his team mates at USC in jeopardy of having victories stripped, a glorious season wiped out, and future restrictions on USC. Then you have his posturing for a #5 jersey, clearly against NFL bylaws - but of course, Reggie doesn't feel those apply to him. Then he makes demands for salary/signing bonus that are so far out of line that HOU lets him slip to #2 in the draft - but of course because he's Reggie Bush, he feels that he ought to have a better contract than both last year's #1 pick - who was a QB, which traditionally draws higher contracts - and this year's #1 pick. Then you have the "no holdout" BS followed by publicity gimmicks designed to make NO management look bad because he knew that he would be making contract demands that NO wouldn't agree to. Now we have the "sit out the entire season" posturing.

 

 

The bolded part is all you need to know. i'm not sure if USC has been cleared, retractions like that aren't nearly as well covered as the supposed transgressions, so they might be free and clear right now.

 

But the fact that he left that in his wake and in his school's, coach's and former teammates laps tell you all you need to know: Bush is all about himself, and is a punk.

 

The #5 jeresy thing is no big deal, happens every other year it seems.

[tbimm]

The bolded part is all you need to know. i'm not sure if USC has been cleared, retractions like that aren't nearly as well covered as the supposed transgressions, so they might be free and clear right now.

 

But the fact that he left that in his wake and in his school's, coach's and former teammates laps tell you all you need to know: Bush is all about himself, and is a punk.

 

The #5 jeresy thing is no big deal, happens every other year it seems.

 

So you have actually met Reggie and know for a fact that a young kid with alot of talent wasn't being taken for a ride so to speak.? Since that must be the case I will now give up all hope for him as an NFL running back!

[Pope Flick]

So you have actually met Reggie and know for a fact that a young kid with alot of talent wasn't being taken for a ride so to speak.? Since that must be the case I will now give up all hope for him as an NFL running back!

 

 

If you'd like to put it that way: it was his parents then that took him for the ride, and how far has the apple fallen from the tree? That's the $25 million dollar question, isn't it?

 

And again, if he left his team in that situation, then he's all about himself. (How did that shake out at the USC/NCAA level anyways?)

 

And I said nothing about that meaning he won't be a good NFL running back. He might be talented, but a punk is still a punk.

[Big Score 1]

No offense intended, but you know, the more I read your post BB, the more it absolutely reeks of Bush envy / hate.

 

I mean look at the stuff you wrote.

 

While there's no doubt that Bush has definitely done some of his charitable work for goodwill, you can't possibly know that for a fact, that it was all purely for mercenary purposes and Bush could really give a rats rear end, or not. Then, to say it is all part of some grand master plan to make the Saints FO look bad....dude that's a HUGH assumption on your part, with absolutely nothing to back it up.

 

Talk about crucifying the guy with suppositions & assumptions...sheesh!

 

He's too light for his height, to be successful in the NFL?

 

Bush as an NFL rookie = 6' 203 lbs

Clinton Portis as an NFL rookie = 5'11" 205 lbs

 

You're a Denver homer. Portis didn't do too bad did he?

 

And then the whole parents living in a house thing.

 

Turns out that was a deal orchestrated between Michael Michaels, Lloyd Lake & LaMar Griffin, Bush's step father.

 

This is shown in sworn testimony by Lake's attorney, Marc Carlos and other sworn testimony from David Caravantes, an NFLPA-certified agent, points to some type of involvement form the Sycuan Indian tribe, despite their denial.

 

At one of the hearings, Lake's lawyer, Marc Carlos, testified that "Mr. Bush — or through his associates — had made some type of agreement with Mr. Lake's group."

 

Caravantes confirmed his arrangement with New Era: "Lloyd [Lake] and I had got together in October [2005] to start a new sports management company with Sycuan. . .

 

After the 3.2 million dollar extortion attempt by New ERA, the NFL notified several clubs of this and the Bush family is looking into filing their own lawsuit against New ERA for violations of California's Athlete Agent Act. This same law would also exonerate USC.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Bush is a Saint (pun intended), but in your post on the Bush family housing fiasco, you squarely pin everything on Bush, when reports show Reggie did not know about the housing deal his step father was orchestrating with the shady characters from New ERA until it was a fait acompli`.

 

Do I think Bush is an Angel?

 

No

 

But do I think he is this cold, calculating, manipulating mercenary that you paint him out to be?

 

Absolutely not.

 

I think he's somewhere in between.

 

However, if the Spanish Inquisition were ever to be resurrected, I think you would be fantastic fit as the Grand Inquisitor.

[rajncajn]

From what I hear locally the only thing that is holding up the Bush deal right now is Vince Young. Rumor is he will have a deal done by Friday & the Bush deal will follow shortly after. That is just rumor, but it makes perfect sense to me.

[Big Score 1]

From what I hear locally the only thing that is holding up the Bush deal right now is Vince Young. Rumor is he will have a deal done by Friday & the Bush deal will follow shortly after. That is just rumor, but it makes perfect sense to me.

 

BB & Swiss are hoping against hope, that you're wrong.

 

Otherwise they'll have argued ad nauseum for 6 pages...over nothing.

[Bronco Billy]

No offense intended, but you know, the more I read your post BB, the more it absolutely reeks of Bush envy / hate.

 

 

I don't even know how to reply to such an inane response. Fine, believe what you want & go back to lapping up the Bush kool-aid. I assume you have Bush's unwashed jock from his 6th grade season nearby to keep sniffing regularly?

Edited July 27, 2006 by Bronco Billy

[Bronco Billy]

BB & Swiss are hoping against hope, that you're wrong.

 

 

 

Could you possibly be any more wrong? I want to see this kid get into camp & show us all how he is the next coming.

[rajncajn]

As I said before...

On ESPN last night

John Clayton said that he expected Bush would not be signed by the opening of camp and that there would be some holdout from Bush, but not really a long one, and that while he shouldn't expect to get no. 1 money, in this case the Vince Young negotiations bore watching because he wouldn't want no. 3 money, either. Therefore, one holdup might be just getting the Young deal done in Tennessee.

 

This is consistent with Segal's pattern of getting his players signed after the bracketing picks have already signed. It's also just the way the NFL works these days. Clayton also dismissed the idea of a season-long or even a long holdout.

[Bronco Billy]

As I said before...

On ESPN last night

 

 

Well, thank the Lord. If it came from John Clayton, then it's written in stone...

 

 

[rajncajn]

Info from another insider from the organization. Again this is rumor, but it is from a reputable source who has also posted info from within the organization before it was made public.

they are working on the incidentals. the deal is done. it may not be announced this weekend because the ppwk has to be sent to the nfl offices first. michael lewis signed his renewal 2-3 wks before his was announced. reggie is ours. chill. so sayeth ME. they may even wait til after vince young announces his contract.

[Savage Beatings]

Info from another insider from the organization. Again this is rumor, but it is from a reputable source who has also posted info from within the organization before it was made public.

 

 

On the way home from work last night, heard on the radio (rumor of course) that the two sides were on the phone with each other workign feverishly to hammer out a good signable deal.

[Bronco Billy]

Info from another insider from the organization. Again this is rumor, but it is from a reputable source who has also posted info from within the organization before it was made public.

 

 

Well, here's to hoping that your sources are correct. If Bush is half as good as some here believe him to be, it ought to be a lot of fun watching him play. If he isn't, it'll make for some great opportunities to sink a few well placed barbs. Either way, let's see him get on the field & prove himself.

 

In fact, there ought to be a few barbs placed after this weekend, depending upon whether Bush is in pads or not by Monday...

[Big Score 1]

I don't even know how to reply to such an inane response. Fine, believe what you want & go back to lapping up the Bush kool-aid. I assume you have Bush's unwashed jock from his 6th grade season nearby to keep sniffing regularly?

 

Did you even read my post, or just that 1st sentence?

 

Your critique of Bush was full of assumptions on your part & just plain inaccurate / incorrect information.

 

This entire thread, you've gone out of your way to crucify & vilify Bush, painting him in the worst possible light.

 

Unless you know him & his family personally and they did something to you, what else is there to think?

[Big Score 1]

Could you possibly be any more wrong? I want to see this kid get into camp & show us all how he is the next coming.

 

Yeah right!

You're now pulling for him to be in camp...

 

You just might want to go back and reread some of your own posts.

6 pages of dogging the guy and telling us all how this looks ugly and will be a lengthy holdout, if not a season long holdout....

[Swiss Cheezhead]

Well, here's to hoping that your sources are correct. If Bush is half as good as some here believe him to be, it ought to be a lot of fun watching him play. If he isn't, it'll make for some great opportunities to sink a few well placed barbs. Either way, let's see him get on the field & prove himself.

 

In fact, there ought to be a few barbs placed after this weekend, depending upon whether Bush is in pads or not by Monday...

 

 

That's pretty much how I feel, too. I'm not into carrying long-standing "grudges" against certain players, so if Bush gets into camp on time, plays well, and keeps his nose clean, I'll be a fan. If not, I'll be disappointed.

 

And, BS1 -- you're wrong about one thing (well, more, but... ). If Bush DOES get into camp on time, these 6 pages of debate won't be for nothing. It was a hypothetical discussion -- the kind you see and hear ALL YEAR LONG in sports media. Do you really think we should wait until AFTER something happens to discuss it? That kinda goes against the very purpose of fantasy football, doesn't it?

 

If Bush is in camp on time (or only misses a day or two), then BB and I will be GLAD. If he doesn't, the "I told you so" part will barely be relevant. The main issue will be whether it says something about him as a person and what effect it has on his career.

Edited July 27, 2006 by Swiss Cheezhead