Can we agree that Bush is a bust?

[Bronco Billy]

BTW, his rushing numbers suggest a serious comparison to Tatum Bell with one exception...Bush doesn't break long runs like Tatum does on occasion, thus vastly improving upon his YPC.

 

 

It's funny you make this comparison, because I almost made it myself. Bush has much better hands than Bell, but Bell did show that he could hit the homerun sprinkled in with the huge percentage of short carries.

Edited November 2, 2006 by Bronco Billy

[Bill Swerski]

Holmes put up good numbers even when he wasn't a featured RB. His track record clearly showed a NFL capable RB before he was sent packing to KC.

 

Very poor analogy.

 

Holmes didn't get a single carry in his rookie year. And when he did get carries, he had the luxury of running behind the best run-blocking OT in the league. The Saints don't have anything close to Jonathan Ogden. I'd love to see what Shaun Alexander's yds/carry numbers look like without Walter Jones mowing down defenders in front of him. Even with Jones, they looked pretty ordinary without Hutchinson earlier this year.

 

If Bush puts up 3.0 yds/carry in a 200-carry season, I'll agree with you. But until he's out of an RBBC situation where he's barely more than a third-down back, it's a little early to be judging him.

[kraftykraft]

Bush is certainly a fantasy bust, but perhaps in a couple years he will be better.

 

For example, about 7-8 years ago I clearly remember a guy in my league drafting Tiki Barber in something like the 5th round. The response at the time was "HAHA!! Tiki Barber!!".

 

About 6 seasons ago, just as we were rolling out keepers as a part of our league, I drafted Tiki Barber in a middle round, and then under league rules I was able to keep him until the season before last when my rights to him expired. That pick 6 years ago turned out to be a pretty good one.

[Rockerbraves]

???

 

I don't understand this statement. So one return TD that won a game and a bunch of crappy numbers with no other TDs makes him a NFL success at his position?

 

I'd respond that the Saints are winning despite Bush, not because of him. Hell, an undrafted rookie WR & a cast off FA QB are making a much larger impact on the team than anything Bush has done.

 

 

Billy have you watched the saints play this season? Reggie Bush is alot like da man Michael Vick. As proof he even threw an interception last week. Seriously, if you haven't watched the Saints play much he has a knack for moving the chains just when you need it. He's also a great diversion even when he doesn't get the ball again much like da man Vick. Defenses have been respecting him which opens up opportunties for others to make plays. If you watched Bush in his MNF debut he was the one that handed the ball off to Henderson on the reverse play. Oh yeah, his punt return for a TD to win the game wasn't bad either.

 

Granted last week was his worse performance to date, but anytime the Saints are 5-2 it's hard for me to think any player on that roster is a bust.

[Meat Face]

Bush is certainly a fantasy bust, but perhaps in a couple years he will be better.

 

For example, about 7-8 years ago I clearly remember a guy in my league drafting Tiki Barber in something like the 5th round. The response at the time was "HAHA!! Tiki Barber!!".

 

About 6 seasons ago, just as we were rolling out keepers as a part of our league, I drafted Tiki Barber in a middle round, and then under league rules I was able to keep him until the season before last when my rights to him expired. That pick 6 years ago turned out to be a pretty good one.

 

 

hope you didn't break your arm just then patting yourself on your back.

[TheCMB]

I agree with Rockerbraves. I would elaborate, but I can't believe I even wasted time reading this nonsense.

 

This is just BS from BB.

[Savage Beatings]

Reggie Bush is alot like da man Michael Vick. As proof he even threw an interception last week.

 

 

[LIK]

He is doing better as a receiver, but he hasn't cashed in a rushing or receiving TD yet. 40% of his carries go for 1 yd or less.

 

 

 

 

OMG email Yahoo and EASports I want his status changed to WR since he has at least lined up in the position you so speak. That would be one more time then Marques Colston has ever lined up as a TE. Heck why stop there I want L.T. changed to QB since he has thrown the ball, he is the best QB ever in F.F.

 

 

lik

[Bronco Billy]

Billy have you watched the saints play this season? Reggie Bush is alot like da man Michael Vick.

 

 

I thought you were arguing on behalf of Bush. This is hardly an encouraging analogy...

 

 

Do you mean we'll have to wait for another 5 seasons before we get a decent rushing game out of Bush, and then when he puts together 2 - count 'em, 2 - consecutive decent games that we can declare him a god?

Edited November 2, 2006 by Bronco Billy

[Bronco Billy]

Actually, Vick might be a very apt comparison. A player playing out of what ought to be his natural position where he can excel, playing poorly for extended stretches because he is playing out of position, and jock sniffers always ready to make ludicrous excuses for him as he continues to put up poor performances and saying that all he does is win games as his team carries him along for the ride.

[Pope Flick]

???

 

I don't understand this statement. So one return TD that won a game and a bunch of crappy numbers with no other TDs makes him a NFL success at his position?

 

I'd respond that the Saints are winning despite Bush, not because of him. Hell, an undrafted rookie WR & a cast off FA QB are making a much larger impact on the team than anything Bush has done.

 

 

 

You kind of answered your question, although the sample size is still small: the Saints ARE 4-4 and his one play might have prevented them from being 3-5.

 

But, no he is clearly NOT the second coming of Gale Sayers like he was being touted by...Gale Sayers.

 

I think they'r eusing him well, though and it's clear that Houston passed on him because he's not their style RB. Putting him in the slot, and throwing to him in the flat is a far better use of his ability to create mismatches than asking him to run 'tween the tackles.

 

BTW - I was on record saying that Lendale is the better NFL back of the two, and I stand by that.

[Bronco Billy]

You kind of answered your question, although the sample size is still small: the Saints ARE 4-4 and his one play might have prevented them from being 3-5.

 

 

 

Huh. The last time I saw the standings, the Saints were 5-2 & tied for the lead in their division...

 

Mayber if Bush could rush for more than 25 yards a game & keep putting NO in 2nd/3rd & long situations they might be 6-1 or 7-0.

Edited November 2, 2006 by Bronco Billy

[Hitman]

Yeah, he's a bust. He has nothing to do with the Saints doing well this year. Ashley Lelie was a bust. Darius Watts was a bust. Darrent Williams is a bust. Dominique Foxworth...also a bust. And last but not least...for his NFL career and that since joining the Ponies, Jake Plummer too....is a bust. Cutler...looks to be the real deal, but I'm gonna go ahead and forecast BUST on him as well. Nice try though....this bait is pretty bad.

[Pope Flick]

Huh. The last time I saw the standings, the Saints were 5-2 & tied for the lead in their division...

 

Mayber if Bush could rush for more than 25 yards a game & keep putting NO in 2nd/3rd & long situations they might be 6-1 or 7-0.

 

My mistake. Thewy don't use Bush the way you describe, that's what they use Duece for. But no matter, my point is that it took him less than half a season to rpovide a play that made the difference in a game, and won it for them. If he can do that his rookie year, then his potential is still looking pretty good, but not LIGHTS OUT like he was being hyped.

[Bronco Billy]

Yeah, he's a bust. He has nothing to do with the Saints doing well this year. Ashley Lelie was a bust. Darius Watts was a bust. Darrent Williams is a bust. Dominique Foxworth...also a bust. And last but not least...for his NFL career and that since joining the Ponies, Jake Plummer too....is a bust. Cutler...looks to be the real deal, but I'm gonna go ahead and forecast BUST on him as well. Nice try though....this bait is pretty bad.

 

 

You accuse me of fishing? Bringing up players from another team, and all of them playing different positions than Bush? I guess you think it will piss me off if you slam Donkeys right & left. Pretty weak effort there, my friend. Nope - make that a very weak effort.

 

Why is it wrong or fishing to point out the fact that Bush has played well below what many thought were extremely lofty expectations when Bush was drafted, and that he doesn't look like he has the capability of being a featured RB in the NFL, but rather has a skill set more fitted to a 3rd down RB/special teams player? Many players have helped their teams tremendously in that part-time lesser capacity.

[uggabugga]

He's also a great diversion even when he doesn't get the ball again much like da man Vick. Defenses have been respecting him which opens up opportunties for others to make plays.

This is the point. Defenses have to account for him and that explains a lot of both Deuce's and Brees' success this season. They line him up all over the field, shift him, send him in motion, do a lot of things that don't show up on the stat sheet. That sucks in the fantasy world. But he's certainly no bust as a football player when you consider the non-stat impact he's already had, and just through half of his rookie season.

 

Bush will never be the classic I-formation tailback who gets 30 carries a game. But he didn't play that role in college, either. Remember LenDale White?

[Ron Burgundy]

I think the best comparison for Bush is Westbrook. Westbrook didn't come in and "light it up" right away, but I don't think anyone would call Westbrook a bust now. Of course, Westbrook was drafted much lower than Bush so the expectations were much lower. I would give Bush at least the rest of this season before labeling him a bust.

[Bronco Billy]

This is the point. Defenses have to account for him and that explains a lot of both Deuce's and Brees' success this season. They line him up all over the field, shift him, send him in motion, do a lot of things that don't show up on the stat sheet. That sucks in the fantasy world. But he's certainly no bust as a football player when you consider the non-stat impact he's already had, and just through half of his rookie season.

 

Bush will never be the classic I-formation tailback who gets 30 carries a game. But he didn't play that role in college, either. Remember LenDale White?

 

 

Bush is an uber-stud RB because NO doesn't give him the ball to carry in great numbers, and those pesky stats that show he is just a mediocre ball carrier are just a diversion that encourages other teams to dedicate the predominance of their defensive efforts to not stopping.

 

 

Got it.

Edited November 2, 2006 by Bronco Billy

[uggabugga]

I think the best comparison for Bush is Westbrook. Westbrook didn't come in and "light it up" right away, but I don't think anyone would call Westbrook a bust now. Of course, Westbrook was drafted much lower than Bush so the expectations were much lower. I would give Bush at least the rest of this season before labeling him a bust.

 

It also depends on how you define "expectations." Who's expectations? If anyone expected him to come in and be a 30-carry I-back, which apparently some people did by saying things like "he doesn't look like he has the capability of being a featured RB in the NFL," then it's your expectations that were misplaced. Why would anyone expect him to play that role when he didn't even do that in college? Why do we pigeon-hole NFL players by position? You're either a RB or a WR. Just because Bush doesn't fit either of those roles neatly doesn't mean he's simply a third-down back. Watch a couple of Saints games and you'll see. The entire defense shifts when he goes in motion.

 

Now again, in fantasy terms, he isn't now and probably won't be for some time a first-round pick. That just means you have to have realistic expectations for how he's being used.

[Azazello1313]

Actually, Vick might be a very apt comparison. A player playing out of what ought to be his natural position where he can excel, playing poorly for extended stretches because he is playing out of position, and jock sniffers always ready to make ludicrous excuses for him as he continues to put up poor performances and saying that all he does is win games as his team carries him along for the ride.

 

 

why don't you look up atlanta's record when vick is out of the lineup.

[uggabugga]

Bush is an uber-stud RB because NO doesn't give him the ball to carry in great numbers, and those pesky stats that show he is just a mediocre ball carrier are just a diversion that encourages other teams to dedicate the predominance of their defensive efforts to not stopping.

 

 

Got it.

 

I don't recall anyone calling him an uber-stud, but if you've ever watched a linebacker follow him in motion and vacate the spot Deuce barrels through moments later, you might understand. But what do I know? Maybe stats are all that matter.

[NAUgrad]

I don't recall anyone calling him an uber-stud, but if you've ever watched a linebacker follow him in motion and vacate the spot Deuce barrels through moments later, you might understand. But what do I know? Maybe stats are all that matter.

 

 

Are you kidding me? Everyone was touting how he was going to be unstoppable and that Houston made the biggest mistake in NFL drafting history by not drafting him.

Edited November 2, 2006 by NAUgrad

[Bronco Billy]

I don't recall anyone calling him an uber-stud, but if you've ever watched a linebacker follow him in motion and vacate the spot Deuce barrels through moments later, you might understand. But what do I know? Maybe stats are all that matter.

 

 

Funny. I distinctly remember before Bush actually started playing in the NFL that he was being forecast as the next great RB to come into the pros. The best in the past 20 years or longer, if I remember correctly. Given the RBs that we've seen play in the pros in the past 20 years, I'd say that uber-stud RB would be applicable.

[Hitman]

 

 

Why is it wrong or fishing to point out the fact that Bush has played well below what many thought were extremely lofty expectations when Bush was drafted, and that he doesn't look like he has the capability of being a featured RB in the NFL, but rather has a skill set more fitted to a 3rd down RB/special teams player?

 

 

Lofty expectations by whom? The FF community? He has 42 recs, a Punt return for TD, etc. Payton is using him brilliantly IMO and in a way that maximizes Deuce's effectiveness as well. Did anyone expect Deuce to return from his knee injury and perform this well? He's averaging 4.7 ypc, in part because of Reggie's presence. Payton spreads the DEF w/ Bush, and for most part, Deuce has capitalized on the big running lanes he's seen as a result. His impact is far beyond stats buddy. Remember, alot of "featured" NFL backs were special teamers, etc. their first year. Deuce returned punts his first year for crying out loud. I don't totally dismiss your thinking about his skill set, and fitting into the NFL...but trust me, he will be a featured back...in due time. Deuce is still the #1 RB, and benefiting from Bush's presence, while Reggie is definitely the most featured weapon. Plus, who cares if he puts up LJ type numbers, besides us FF'ers? His play will result in alot more Saints "W"s in the future....and that's why they are happy as heII to have him there. He'll have some 1000+ rushing yd seasons under his belt when he's done...but his total body of work and receiving skills will set him apart from alot of RBs. To call him just a RB isn't really fair. The guy is a weapon and just when you think you've got him contained...will hurt you in the blink of an eye. Also, most importantly....he's a winner, and the Saints needed that more than LJ #s.

Edited November 2, 2006 by Hitman

[Rockerbraves]

Actually, Vick might be a very apt comparison. A player playing out of what ought to be his natural position where he can excel, playing poorly for extended stretches because he is playing out of position, and jock sniffers always ready to make ludicrous excuses for him as he continues to put up poor performances and saying that all he does is win games as his team carries him along for the ride.

 

 

Billy wouldn't it be great if the Saints traded Brees for Vick. Wow talk about a defensive nightmare! Reggie and Vick in the same backfield. Little doubt that combo could never be stopped. Talk about sell tickets! Two of the most anticipated players ever to enter the NFL on the same team. That would be fun to watch.