Chavez Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 So how much does an elite QB make a WR or vice versa? Does Manning get more benefit from Harrison or the other way around? How is it Boldin and Fitz can produce at such a high level with such putrid QBs? Why is Tom Brady so good with mediocre WRs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD6405 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 The Coach's gameplan can determine a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RokoMotion Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 the egg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 time in the pocket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rai Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 (edited) very hard to say Would Jerry Rice have been as good if he had been drafted by Clevland instead of SF (I'd say no)? And/or were Montana/Young made hall of famers b/c of Rice? Several QBs have been hall of fame level w/o great WRs. Farvre (Sharp was great but most are not the best WRs in the league), Marino (not the best WRs) Elway (not the best WRs) McNabb (TO was only together for 20 games) etc... I think you can see a WR like Owens has brought up the level of play of Garcia/McNabb but then again McNabb is not doing bad w/o TO so it's hard to say. I can give examples of WR who were GREAT WITH SEVERAL DIFFERNET QBs, Like Moss and Hinse Ward. And Also QBs that don't always have the best WRs like Farvre and McNabb. You might say it's rare for a combo like Manning/Harrison or Rice/Montana and Rice/Young where both players are the top of the league. You can argu either way. Suffice it to say it depends on seversal things: QB WR Coach style... Edited November 16, 2006 by rai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 the egg I agree. But "Egg" is always capitalized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 the egg Yea right, just how did the egg there? did it lay itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD6405 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 (edited) Yea right, just how did the egg there? did it lay itself? immaculate birth or budding. Edited November 16, 2006 by CD6405 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 You might say it's rare for a combo like Manning/Harrison or Rice/Montana and Rice/Young where both players are the top of the league. You can argu either way. Suffice it to say it depends on seversal things: QB WR Coach style... +1 Jerry Rice and Joe Montana, or Jerry Rice and Steve Young... it's like Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison, only Manning/Harrison might even be a better combo -- their team simply lacks the defense to (at least so far) have the same dynasty that the 49ers had for such a long period of time. For example, Joe Montana is so good that he made Dwight Clark possibly have a much better career than if he played elsewhere. While Dwight Clark was a Pro Bowl WR, and had a lot of talant, it is a given fact that Joe Montana helped inspire such great play from this wide receiver. Then, when All-World wide receiver Jerry Rice hooked up with Montana it created what is known as one of the best WR/QB combos in the history of the NFL. The same with Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison, as well as Jerry Rice and Steve Young. The records indicate proof of this more than anything else. But when you get an average QB with an amazing WR it isn't very difficult to see which position makes the other play better, or at least appear better. Looking at it the other way around (for example, Tom Brady), sometimes it is a very accurate and consistent QB that can help offer average WR's the ability to play at a level that most other QB's will not get out of them. So in this case, it's the it's the Chicken that creates the egg, however, the egg that also re-creates another chicken. But the egg creates the chicken, so the chicken created the egg. Oh damn... I've gone cross-eyed. Hand me another beer, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitem0nkey Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I say neither, I will vote for O-line. I would rather have a great o-line and AVG QB & WR. Instead of and avg. o-line and a great QB and WR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolv Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Its all on a case-by-case basis. Considerations are talent level, protection/running game, and offensive system. R. Moss has worldy talent, but he's not even worth a FF roster spot atm. Thats due to the system I believe. McNabb continually gets it done with little in the way of WRs, same as Brady. System as well. Happens to RBs too - see Priest Holmes. TO, however cancerous he is, seems to raise the play level of his QBs (except for Bledsoe). West coast offense or not, he produces. Thats talent. I think he's more the exception than the standard though. Any great QB, with protection, can make WRs produce. Look at Favre - Sharp, Driver, Walker. Would those three put up those kind of numbers on a Marty-ball team? Not likely. Favre is as good as they come, but look at last year - he needs protection to produce. Other questions. Would Marino have put up the numbers he did if Miami had any kind of a running game? Would Aikman have been a more prolific passer without Emmit? Would Montana be as good outside a West Coast offense? Creates more questions than answers for me. Thanks Chavez - just wasted 30 minutes for nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Tell you how much I think QB's help. Can't even think of the name of Bledsoe's other great WR that played along side Moulds. He went to Atlanta and faded away, I think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Tell you how much I think QB's help. Can't even think of the name of Bledsoe's other great WR that played along side Moulds. He went to Atlanta and faded away, I think? Peerless Price. He found his way back to Buffalo after being cut by the Falcons and Cowboys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonKnight Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 So did Brooks make Horn great or vice versa. Cause we see what Horn Has done post Brooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 So did Brooks make Horn great or vice versa. Cause we see what Horn Has done post Brooks. Hard to say, because at one point they both played well. I would lean more towards Horn in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 very hard to say Would Jerry Rice have been as good if he had been drafted by Clevland instead of SF (I'd say no)? And/or were Montana/Young made hall of famers b/c of Rice? montana won 2 sb's before rice's arrival. i think rice could have excelled anywhere (ie: ward in a run first offense in pit). young had a lot of natural talent, then "developed" into a great passer due to a phenomenal coaching staff and a system theat could adjust to his talents Several QBs have been hall of fame level w/o great WRs. Farvre (Sharp was great but most are not the best WRs in the league), Marino (not the best WRs) Elway (not the best WRs) McNabb (TO was only together for 20 games) etc... favre- fantastic qb but he has had very good wr's over the years imo. holmgren and staff really helped him get on track... he was a dud in atl. marino also would have excelled, but you are forgetting duper and clayton... pretty nice duo i the football world. I think you can see a WR like Owens has brought up the level of play of Garcia/McNabb but then again McNabb is not doing bad w/o TO so it's hard to say. I can give examples of WR who were GREAT WITH SEVERAL DIFFERNET QBs, Like Moss and Hinse Ward. And Also QBs that don't always have the best WRs like Farvre and McNabb. You might say it's rare for a combo like Manning/Harrison or Rice/Montana and Rice/Young where both players are the top of the league. You can argu either way. Suffice it to say it depends on seversal things: QB WR Coach style... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 puddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Peerless Price. He found his way back to Buffalo after being cut by the Falcons and Cowboys. And promptly got lost again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joethin Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 The Chicken. According to Darwin, a fish-a worm-and-a virus had an orji one day and a chicken came out of the fusion. Thereafter, Eggs have been laid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted November 19, 2006 Author Share Posted November 19, 2006 So, after reading the discussion and doing some myself, I have a thesis: A good QB can get his numbers, if not make better, a mediocre WR corps (Favre, at times, has been a good example of this). A good WR can be deep-sixed by exceptionally bad QB play, but generally if the QB is reasonably competent, will get his catches and yards (for example Chad Johnson or Roy Williams with Jon Kitna throwing to them). The main difference being that a great QB can elevate an average supporting cast into a good offense. A great WR can continue to excel but won't elevate the team around him. Now, if you can manage to get a top QB with top receiving talent, look out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD6405 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 So, after reading the discussion and doing some myself, I have a thesis: A good QB can get his numbers, if not make better, a mediocre WR corps (Favre, at times, has been a good example of this). A good WR can be deep-sixed by exceptionally bad QB play, but generally if the QB is reasonably competent, will get his catches and yards (for example Chad Johnson or Roy Williams with Jon Kitna throwing to them). The main difference being that a great QB can elevate an average supporting cast into a good offense. A great WR can continue to excel but won't elevate the team around him. Now, if you can manage to get a top QB with top receiving talent, look out. You mean the Colts and Bengals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted November 19, 2006 Author Share Posted November 19, 2006 You mean the Colts and Bengals? Whoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD6405 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 I think a great WR can elevate a crap QB to a high level, although it will be the minority. Look at Carolina with Steve Smith and Delhomme. Smith makes Delhomme look amazing in the stat box, but he has to make some amazingly hard catches to bail out Delhomme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted November 19, 2006 Author Share Posted November 19, 2006 I think a great WR can elevate a crap QB to a high level, although it will be the minority. Look at Carolina with Steve Smith and Delhomme. Smith makes Delhomme look amazing in the stat box, but he has to make some amazingly hard catches to bail out Delhomme. But how do you explain the season Delhomme and Muhammad had back in '04? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD6405 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 (edited) But how do you explain the season Delhomme and Muhammad had back in '04? It's the same thing, a really good WR can make a average QB good. He had the same type of numbers as smith did last year, Delhomme would just throw the ball up and (despite what he is now) Muhammed had some great hands in 2004 and make some great catches. Edited November 19, 2006 by CD6405 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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