How Should I Have Played This Poker Hand?

[spain]

Playing $1/$2 NL Holdem. I bought in for the max of $300 and I was up to ~$350 after having to fight my way back from losing $125 when my AA was cracked by KK. Anyway, the following hand comes up that confused me some. I am in SB with Ks 2s. 3 limpers, I complete, BB checks his option. The flop comes Kd 10d 7c. I am first to act and bet $15 with my TP to see where I am at. One caller who I have down as a local nit. So, I am thinking he has KJ or KQ or maybe on a flush draw. The turn is a 2c. I now have top and bottom pair. I bet out $45. He calls me fairly quickly. Not sure where I am but I feel very confident he at least has TP but might be chasing. The River is a Ks, filling up my boat, K's full of 2's. I am now hoping he hit his flush. I bet out $100. He puts me all in for another ~$175 or so. Now I go into the tank. He might have hit his flush, or he could have K 10 or K7 and have a bigger boat. I of course, called the bet after working through all the hands that I could beat from AK to a flush to a bluff(unlikely). He flips over K 10 and felts me. Anyway to play this hand differently other than to have not been in the hand with K2?

[Kansas State 2000]

I would have done the same thing as he just called after the flop. If he raised then I would have been more concerned with the 10 or 7 coming into play.

 

It is his slow play that made you HAVE to call his bet.

[TimC]

Only thing I would've done differently is not walk out in tears and flipping over chairs.

 

I hate playing the K2 (worse than a weak ace), but if I'm forced to because I'm in the SB or BB, I usually try to keep the pot small unless I can buy it on the flop. You were screwed on the turn, and super-screwed when the King river filled you up and making a flush possibility there. I don't see anyone laying this down in a cash game.

 

He played it well and you were stuck. As the cliche goes...that's poker.

Edited May 17, 2007 by TimC

[Grits and Shins]

The only thing you might have done differently is check after the flop ... having aces or kings with a low card kicker is one of the worst hands to play.

 

Of course checking after the flop makes it hard for you to call any sizeable bet. Your opponent played the hand well letting you take the lead to disguise his hand ... he hooked you up and reeled you in ... he was very fortunate that you hit bottom pair for a smaller two pair then boat.

[detlef]

Much like fasting, I think gambling is a foolish endeavor for those who rely on immediate gratification at the expense of long term gain. Sound investments and savings is a much better tact to take. So, rather than playing that hand any better, I would have taken the money and put it in a Roth IRA.

[wildcat2334]

once he smooth calls the $15 flop, you know your a hugh dog and are beat. 3 limpers, too many hands ur beat with a K 10 7 flop op with K2 - I am outta there if anyone is firing on the turn. Unless you flop a monster, a hand like K2 op will kill ya.

 

After being smooth called twice, I think I am checking the river though to keep this messy board small. Probably calling his bet on the river though, unless he is all in for his last $275, then, no thanks.

 

Small ball, don't want to get stung with this hand.

[Big Country]

I'm not sure I would have led out at that flop.

 

You have top pair/weakest kicker with no backdorr flush draws and are out of position. When you limped, you were looking to hit a flush cheaply or get out of the hand. Personally, I would have probably checked and then gotten away from the hand if one of the other limpers led out at it. You are beat by way too many hands in this position and it is a very small pot.. let it go, no need to win every pot.

 

Once you bet out though and got the caller, nothing you could have done differently. The river king makes it all the less likely that he really did have a king, so hard to avoid going broke there as he likely makes the same move with many hands you beat (flush, lone king, etc.).

 

IMO, leading out on the flop and not being able to let go of TPWK was really the only mistake in the play of the hand.

[darin3]

I'm not sure I would have led out at that flop.

 

You have top pair/weakest kicker with no backdorr flush draws and are out of position. When you limped, you were looking to hit a flush cheaply or get out of the hand. Personally, I would have probably checked and then gotten away from the hand if one of the other limpers led out at it. You are beat by way too many hands in this position and it is a very small pot.. let it go, no need to win every pot.

 

Once you bet out though and got the caller, nothing you could have done differently. The river king makes it all the less likely that he really did have a king, so hard to avoid going broke there as he likely makes the same move with many hands you beat (flush, lone king, etc.).

 

IMO, leading out on the flop and not being able to let go of TPWK was really the only mistake in the play of the hand.

 

agreed...

[Big F'n Dave]

You did nothing wrong. You just got beat.

[cre8tiff]

once he smooth calls the $15 flop, you know your a hugh dog and are beat. 3 limpers, too many hands ur beat with a K 10 7 flop op with K2 - I am outta there if anyone is firing on the turn. Unless you flop a monster, a hand like K2 op will kill ya.

 

After being smooth called twice, I think I am checking the river though to keep this messy board small. Probably calling his bet on the river though, unless he is all in for his last $275, then, no thanks.

 

Small ball, don't want to get stung with this hand.

 

 

I've heard of a frog...

[chiefjay]

You did nothing wrong. You just got beat.

 

 

I think he could have bailed earlier considering his opponent and weak kicker. I mean I probably would have got sucked in and lost my jack as well but I think I would have the same analysis for myself in hindsight.

[i_am_the_swammi]

I think he could have bailed earlier considering his opponent and weak kicker.

 

I disagree...he already had his opponent pegged as the village idiot, so who knows what he was calling with? A smooth call on the flop could have meant he was fishing for a flush, or that he had QJ and was open-ended. The $15 smooth call would have been hard for anyone to read.

 

The $45 turn call was another story...I doubt he was going to invest himself so heavily on a draw with just one more card coming. At that point, it becomes apparent that he has a hand worth playing. Now, if its me, I am still feeling good that I am ahead with my TPBP. But I'd be a little more cautious then before.

 

I probably would have checked the river, or led-out with a smaller bet than the $100 play you made, and then called whatever he raised, as you did. Seeing as the only hands that had you beat were K-10 or K-7, I don't know how you could lay your K2 down at that point.

 

Play it the same way agains the same opponent next time, and I would wager you take the pot.

Edited May 17, 2007 by i_am_the_swammi

[Big Country]

I disagree...he already had his opponent pegged as the village idiot, so who knows what he was calling with? A smooth call on the flop could have meant he was fishing for a flush, or that he had QJ and was open-ended. The $15 smooth call would have been hard for anyone to read.

 

The $45 turn call was another story...I doubt he was going to invest himself so heavily on a draw with just one more card coming. At that point, it becomes apparent that he has a hand worth playing. Now, if its me, I am still feeling good that I am ahead with my TPBP. But I'd be a little more cautious then before.

 

I probably would have checked the river, or led-out with a smaller bet than the $100 play you made, and then called whatever he raised, as you did. Seeing as the only hands that had you beat were K-10 or K-7, I don't know how you could lay your K2 down at that point.

 

Play it the same way agains the same opponent next time, and I would wager you take the pot.

 

 

So you don't think leading at a $10 pot with a $15 bet out of position with top pair, no kicker, with 4 players to act is a mistake?

[i_am_the_swammi]

So you don't think leading at a $10 pot with a $15 bet out of position with top pair, no kicker, with 4 players to act is a mistake?

 

 

I don't necessarily think betting agressively is a mistake. I'd guess 7 times out of 10, he takes the pot right there with that bet, since there were only 2 other Ks available to the other 47 cards in the deck. He stated he wanted "to see where he was", and while out of position, he got his wish: there were 3 folds, and only the "nit" in potentially chase-mode. If one of the other limpers had called instead of the idiot, I'd have exercised more caution. But once it was the guy he had pegged as "nit" called, I too would have felt very comfortable.

 

Turns out his opponent played the hand well by just calling, and had one of just two possible hands that could beat him.

 

But as I stated before, if he plays the entire hand the same way with the same cards coming out, he wins 9 of 10 with K's full over deuces. The chances of the idiot having 1 of only 2 possible combos that could beat him were astronomical.

Edited May 17, 2007 by i_am_the_swammi

[alexgaddis]

You should have told him you had pocket KK's so he would have gotten scared and folded...

[wildcat2334]

I disagree...he already had his opponent pegged as the village idiot, so who knows what he was calling with? A smooth call on the flop could have meant he was fishing for a flush, or that he had QJ and was open-ended. The $15 smooth call would have been hard for anyone to read.

 

The $45 turn call was another story...I doubt he was going to invest himself so heavily on a draw with just one more card coming. At that point, it becomes apparent that he has a hand worth playing. Now, if its me, I am still feeling good that I am ahead with my TPBP. But I'd be a little more cautious then before.

 

I probably would have checked the river, or led-out with a smaller bet than the $100 play you made, and then called whatever he raised, as you did. Seeing as the only hands that had you beat were K-10 or K-7, I don't know how you could lay your K2 down at that point.

 

Play it the same way agains the same opponent next time, and I would wager you take the pot.

 

 

 

I disagree- 4 limpers, coming in with K2 out of position is a recipe for disaster. No way I think I am ahead at the turn, and you will go broke many more times than not if you think ya are in the lead here...........

 

 

the village idiot got the perfek card 2 on the turn, to get maximum value out his hand.

 

the chances of the VI holding one of 2 hands to beat him astronomical? eh, negative you have it backwards- the only astronomical part was Spains K2 catching up post-flop.

 

At the flop Spain was down to 3 outs, and needed a runner runner deuce.....

Edited May 17, 2007 by wildcat2334

[spain]

So you don't think leading at a $10 pot with a $15 bet out of position with top pair, no kicker, with 4 players to act is a mistake?

 

In retrospect, I not only over bet the flop, but I overbet the turn, even with 2 pair and a flush draw on board. However, this was a very aggressive game. Everybody was betting between $15 and $40 on every flop. Most pots were raised pre-flop with the standard raise being to $20. I actually love that kind of game. But the fact of the matter is that I should have checked-called the flop. Bet about $25 on the turn and bet out on the river. I still would have gotten felted though, I think.

[spain]

BTW, a nit is the same thing as a rock. Its not a maniac...

[i_am_the_swammi]

I disagree- 4 limpers, coming in with K2 out of position is a recipe for disaster. No way I think I am ahead at the turn, and you will go broke many more times than not if you think ya are in the lead here...........

the village idiot got the perfek card 2 on the turn, to get maximum value out his hand.

 

the chances of the VI holding one of 2 hands to beat him astronomical? eh, negative you have it backwards- the only astronomical part was Spains K2 catching up post-flop.

 

At the flop Spain was down to 3 outs, and needed a runner runner deuce.....

 

 

You are evaluating this hand based on the fact you now KNOW the cards. Look at it as if you were playing the hand:

 

K2 held, four limpers; flop comes K-10-7. Two of the four Ks are already in play. That means that there 2 more Ks in the 47 other cards, or 1 in 24. four other limpers = 8 cards. The chance of one of them holding a K is 33%. That means 67% of the time, you are ahead (assuming someone didn't hit 2 pair with 10-7, or a set). And who knows, perhaps if someone was holding a K, maybe they had K-4, and would fold to your $15 flop bet...I don't necessarily think it was a big mistake taking a stab at it to see where you are.

 

Once the flop bet was called, I would have been a little more cautious. I would have assumed a K was held by my opponent, and with a bigger kicker. I agree with you, before the turn, I would have assumed I was behind (even though my opponent may have been on a flush/strght draw). But once the deuce came on the turn, the percentages again would have been in Spain's favor. The only hands he would have trailed were K-10, K-7, 10-10, 7-7, 2-2. Still great odds for him.

 

Obviously, in hindsight, we know he really needed runner-runner-deuce to win, but while playing the hand, the percentages were in his favor the entire way. He ran up against a better hand. It happens.

Edited May 17, 2007 by i_am_the_swammi

[Savage Beatings]

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

[Grits and Shins]

In all honesty with 3 limpers I fold K-2o from the SB. However, assuming I limped in and now there are 5 in the pot with top pair and worst kicker I likely check the flop and depending on the size of the best call/fold the bet ... with a good change I will fold.

 

When the turn comes, if I'm still playing my hand it becomes harder to fold having hit 2 pairs ... and it is impossible to fold after the river. I will likely try to check it down but also will likely call any bet.

[i_am_the_swammi]

In all honesty with 3 limpers I fold K-2o from the SB. However, assuming I limped in and now there are 5 in the pot with top pair and worst kicker I likely check the flop and depending on the size of the best call/fold the bet ... with a good change I will fold.

 

When the turn comes, if I'm still playing my hand it becomes harder to fold having hit 2 pairs ... and it is impossible to fold after the river. I will likely try to check it down but also will likely call any bet.

 

 

Actually, it was Ks 2s, and it was only $1 to call with $9 already committed. You'd be getting 9:1 to see the flop.

 

Again, hindsight is 20/20, but with a 67% chance you are ahead after the flop, I don't see much of a reason to play it uber-safe.

[Big F'n Dave]

God, I've got to get into a game with some of you cats. My kids could use the college money.

[Azazello1313]

The flop comes Kd 10d 7c. ... The turn is a 2c. I now have top and bottom pair. ...The River is a Ks.... I am now hoping he hit his flush.

 

how could he have hit a flush?

[Brewer]

how could he have hit a flush?

 

 

Good question.