keggerz Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I'm wondering how long this thread would be if we were talking about the Lions instead of the Patriots? Would there even be a thread? yep everyone would be talking about how millen cant even win when he cheats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 All BS aside, do you people think that some portion of the Patriots success could be as a result of this cheating? That's the question that sheds light onto this entire thing imo. Seems to me that if what the Patriots were doing was so insidious, a disgruntled fomer employee, particularly a player or coach (like Eric Mangini perhaps) would have blown the whistle well before now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilwiggum Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Dallas has the 2 firsts next year with the Cleveland trade. You meant the 49ers trade. My bad I meant San Fran's trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 No, because I'd like to believe all the head coaches in the league are smart enough to change their signals....ESPECIALLY Mangini considering he was WITH the Patriots. People act like this takes away all the success they have, but you still need players to go out there and perform. Exactly, Indy still has beat them the last three times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Exactly, Indy still has beat them the last three times. What a ridiculous statement that totally skirts the issue. Bonds doesn't hit a home run every time he's at bat because he takes steroids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 What a ridiculous statement that totally skirts the issue. Bonds doesn't hit a home run every time he's at bat because he takes steroids. Exactly, you have to go out and perform yourself too. Thanks for proving my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelap1 Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I'm wondering how long this thread would be if we were talking about the Lions instead of the Patriots? Would there even be a thread? Not likely, because they haven't won a damn thing. They couldn't put a winning season together even if they were cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Exactly, you have to go out and perform yourself too. Thanks for proving my point. Your reading comprehension skills are lacking. My question was if it helped. Just because they lost, doesn't mean the cheating didn't help in other situations or games. Can you go back and answer the question now or do you need further explanation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Cheating is cheating although there are different degrees of acts. Just look at baseball. Players are taught to watch signs of the catcher to read pitches, it's not illegal but still within the same context of the Pats accusation. The difference obviously is video is involved and it's illegal per NFL rules. Like I said before, I wouldn't be surprised if everyone pushed the envelope a bit to get an edge. Since the Pats apparently got busted, they should be made an example of that cheating won't be tolerated with harsh penalties that puts fear into the hearts of other teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Your reading comprehension skills are lacking. My question was if it helped. Just because they lost, doesn't mean the cheating didn't help in other situations or games. Can you go back and answer the question now or do you need further explanation? Well your question is a stupid one then because if they were cheating, of course it "helped" them. Why would they do it more than once if it didn't help them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD6405 Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Well your question is a stupid one then because if they were cheating, of course it "helped" them. Why would they do it more than once if it didn't help them? They were testing to see if they had to cheat HARDER, duhhh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 The only real voice of reason among the whole Pat-ade sipping bunch. Forfiet game, suspend Bell-I-Cheat, $ fine that counts against the cap and lose a couple years worth of 1st and 2nd round picks! I grew up as a child in NE and though a Charger fan now (since 1973), have alsways had a place in the rooting heart for the Pats. Once I sipped of the Charger cool-ade, I always enjoyed Pat success if it didn't interfere with the Chargers (same with Steelers and Dolphins). I am ashamed of the organization, feel betrayed as a fan and have lost all respect for the organization at this point. I'm with Sarge and Hugh on this one completely. NO HOF for Bell-I-Cheat, and in my mind, an asterisk goes next to everything they have done in recent memory. Trying to pick up on D signals has always been a part fo the game. That is why we always used a couple of coaches to send signals in. BUT, we never used technology and doing it real time is pretty useless anyway. The turn around between reading the signal and getting it to your O is too short. The D will almost always send signals in before the O gets their play, and D plays are called on down & distance and opponents tendencies throughout the game (game charting). This is what has always been done, FROM THE SIDELINES. It is part of the strategy and gamesmanship. You incorporate technology, where not only do we know exactly what D they are playing, but you have a radio in the head of your friggen QB to give him a play AND where to go with it AND tell the rest of the offense as well BEFORE they break the huddle... Sorry kiddies, that is cheating. It is a MAJOR integrity question. None of which the Pats, that I have rooted for, have in my eyes anymore. Taping the O's audibles, matching them up with the plays and giving that to the guys on the field? IF they did that too, there goes the "Defensive Genious" theory. We can replace that with the "F'n Cheater" theory if this holds true as well! They have done it in the past, got caught, kept doin' it. SLAP 'EM HARD. What amazes me is that as heavy as everyone was piling on Merriman last year for his cheating, how aloof some of you are to this. This is not one guy, it is a systemic, organizational practice! I am also not suprised to see some of the Colts Fans poo-poo this. By not caring, what? It makes you look better than everyone else 'cause you can beat'em even if they are cheating!?!? I thought we were supposed to stop using the childish excuse of "everyone else does it" by the time we start like 3rd grade Mad Props Boog, I agree with everrything you said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 They were testing to see if they had to cheat HARDER, duhhh. Of course...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSupe4You Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Seems to me that if what the Patriots were doing was so insidious, a disgruntled fomer employee, particularly a player or coach (like Eric Mangini perhaps) would have blown the whistle well before now. And implicate themselves as cheaters in process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I am also not suprised to see some of the Colts Fans poo-poo this. By not caring, what? It makes you look better than everyone else 'cause you can beat'em even if they are cheating!?!? If you're referring to me in part, it's not that I don't care. I care quite a bit and think that they should be punished. But I'm not going to throw a hissy-fit about it and say that they cheated to beat us in the '03 and '04 playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 If you're referring to me in part, it's not that I don't care. I care quite a bit and think that they should be punished. But I'm not going to throw a hissy-fit about it and say that they cheated to beat us in the '03 and '04 playoffs. I have lots of respect for that because all the Colts fans I am around here at school are acting the exact opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonehand Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 All joking aside, the part that hurts my head is why the Patriots would do this. Especially against the Jets. The Pats are probably the most talented team on both sides of the ball, so why risk so much when the chances of you winning are strongly in your favor to begin with? Well, as Belichick was quoted as saying: "If you ever catch me slippin' then you know I'm straight trippin'..." Or was that Dr. Dre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Seems to me that if what the Patriots were doing was so insidious, a disgruntled fomer employee, particularly a player or coach (like Eric Mangini perhaps) would have blown the whistle well before now. Maybe Mangini did, and that is the reason they were caught at the Jets game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilwiggum Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 The only real voice of reason among the whole Pat-ade sipping bunch. Forfiet game, suspend Bell-I-Cheat, $ fine that counts against the cap and lose a couple years worth of 1st and 2nd round picks! I grew up as a child in NE and though a Charger fan now (since 1973), have alsways had a place in the rooting heart for the Pats. Once I sipped of the Charger cool-ade, I always enjoyed Pat success if it didn't interfere with the Chargers (same with Steelers and Dolphins). I am ashamed of the organization, feel betrayed as a fan and have lost all respect for the organization at this point. I'm with Sarge and Hugh on this one completely. NO HOF for Bell-I-Cheat, and in my mind, an asterisk goes next to everything they have done in recent memory. Trying to pick up on D signals has always been a part fo the game. That is why we always used a couple of coaches to send signals in. BUT, we never used technology and doing it real time is pretty useless anyway. The turn around between reading the signal and getting it to your O is too short. The D will almost always send signals in before the O gets their play, and D plays are called on down & distance and opponents tendencies throughout the game (game charting). This is what has always been done, FROM THE SIDELINES. It is part of the strategy and gamesmanship. You incorporate technology, where not only do we know exactly what D they are playing, but you have a radio in the head of your friggen QB to give him a play AND where to go with it AND tell the rest of the offense as well BEFORE they break the huddle... Sorry kiddies, that is cheating. It is a MAJOR integrity question. None of which the Pats, that I have rooted for, have in my eyes anymore. Taping the O's audibles, matching them up with the plays and giving that to the guys on the field? IF they did that too, there goes the "Defensive Genious" theory. We can replace that with the "F'n Cheater" theory if this holds true as well! They have done it in the past, got caught, kept doin' it. SLAP 'EM HARD. What amazes me is that as heavy as everyone was piling on Merriman last year for his cheating, how aloof some of you are to this. This is not one guy, it is a systemic, organizational practice! I am also not suprised to see some of the Colts Fans poo-poo this. By not caring, what? It makes you look better than everyone else 'cause you can beat'em even if they are cheating!?!? I thought we were supposed to stop using the childish excuse of "everyone else does it" by the time we start like 3rd grade McBoog, how can you have one set of rules for the Patriots and one for your Chargers? Did San Diego have to forfeit any games because Merriman was on Steroids? Is he inelgible for the Hall of Fame? Do we dismiss everything the Chargers have done? No. Does INDY hav eto forfeit their Superbowl because Rhodes took steroids? No. Unless you can prove that the PATS had cameras at all those games, you can't punish them. As far as it being "not one guy, it is a systemic, organizational practice! ", keep in mind Belichick does not play defense, he does not play offense. He coaches. Unlike Merriman who's actions on the field of play can influence the outcome of the game. Everyone knows manning is looking for Marvin Harrison, but still he catches 100 balls a year. The biggest crime here though might be how you support 4 football teams. PATS, Chargers, Steelers & Dolphins? I mean do you just root for whoever's in first place? How does that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Well your question is a stupid one then because if they were cheating, of course it "helped" them. Why would they do it more than once if it didn't help them? OK, so if they did it, and it helped them, you're OK with it. That's what you're saying, just for the record, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD6405 Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 (edited) McBoog, how can you have one set of rules for the Patriots and one for your Chargers? Did San Diego have to forfeit any games because Merriman was on Steroids? Is he inelgible for the Hall of Fame? Do we dismiss everything the Chargers have done? No. Does INDY hav eto forfeit their Superbowl because Rhodes took steroids? No. Unless you can prove that the PATS had cameras at all those games, you can't punish them. As far as it being "not one guy, it is a systemic, organizational practice! ", keep in mind Belichick does not play defense, he does not play offense. He coaches. Unlike Merriman who's actions on the field of play can influence the outcome of the game. Everyone knows manning is looking for Marvin Harrison, but still he catches 100 balls a year. The biggest crime here though might be how you support 4 football teams. PATS, Chargers, Steelers & Dolphins? I mean do you just root for whoever's in first place? How does that work? +1 Jerome Bettis faked injury so he wouldn't get cut, doesn't that hurt the integrity of the game? Edited September 12, 2007 by CD6405 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Maybe Mangini did, and that is the reason they were caught at the Jets game. Its possible. But if NE was doing it far enough back that it influenced Super Bowls and the like (as some have suggested), then odds are Mangini knew about it, did nothing about it (at best) and benefitted from it. There is no honor among thieves, apparently. In any event, we don't really know what NE did, and how, if at all, it affected games, so it amuses me that normally cool headed individuals are crying about the THE INTEGRITY OF THE LEAGUE being in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 now this is only a rumor from PFT... so take it for what its worth. POSTED 8:34 p.m. EDT, September 11, 2007 WERE PATS WIRING DEFENSIVE PLAYERS, TOO? The situation regarding the New England Patriots and the allegations/proof that they have stolen defensive signals is unofficially getting weirder. The signal stealing flap is relevant only to defensive signals, since all offensive calls are made by radio. But we're now aware of suspicions/rumors regarding efforts by the Pats to get a leg up as to opposing offenses. Specifically, we're told that it's believed that, during the 2006 season, the Patriots were putting microphones on defensive linemen in order to capture the offensive line calls and the quarterback audibles. Then, the audio and the video of the game would be matched up, and the defensive players would be given the code at halftime. Now, if THIS happened, the integrity of the league would be compromised . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Now, if THIS happened, the integrity of the league would be compromised . this is what I was talking about, the NFL is still trying to figure out the frequenices issue from this game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Now, if THIS happened, the integrity of the league would be compromised . I remember Casserly was talking about a team that used parabolic mics a few years ago when he was on the competition committee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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