Williams Suspensions

[Outshined]

Fate of Kevin and Pat Williams could be finalized by Tuesday

By JUDD ZULGAD, Star Tribune

 

Last update: December 1, 2008 - 12:19 AM

 

 

The Vikings have been waiting to learn the fate of Kevin and Pat Williams since the Pro Bowl defensive tackles went to New York on Nov. 20 to appeal their four-game suspensions for testing positive for a banned diuretic that can serve as a masking agent for steroids.

 

The suspensions could be finalized by Tuesday, according to a Sunday report by Fox's Jay Glazer. If they aren't handed down by then, they aren't likely to be imposed at all because only four regular-season games remain and the NFL wants any potential action to apply to this season.

 

If the league suspends the players, things could get ugly. Seven players now face suspensions in this case, which involves a product known as StarCaps. Unbeknownst to the players, it contained an NFL-banned product known as bumetanide.

 

According to Glazer, "Sources have told me that [the players potentially facing suspensions] have information that at least two high-ranking NFL members knew that there was an illegal substance called bumetanide in these StarCap pills and didn't tell the players and didn't tell the NFL players association.

 

"If the players are still found guilty, they are going to file a temporary restraining order in another jurisdiction. They'll also file suit not just against [the manufacturer of] StarCaps but against the National Football League as well as the individuals who withheld this information."

 

While the Williamses had their appeals heard on the same day, they were held separately. Neither has commented on the hearings.

 

California-based Balanced Health Products, which manufactured StarCaps, already has had a class-action lawsuit filed against it in the Superior Court of California by Atlanta Falcons nose tackle Grady Jackson, who, like the Williamses, is appealing a suspension.

[Randall]

Can they be suspended retroactively?

 

I think they'll get off if it's true the NFL failed to inform the players about this supplement.

[Outshined]

From PFT

 

SAINTS PLAYERS FOCUS ON DR. LOMBARDO

Posted by Mike Florio on December 1, 2008, 11:00 a.m. EST

 

In a legal brief submitted to the NFL on Sunday, Saints running back Deuce McAllister and defensive ends Charles Grant and Will Smith make their case for avoiding discipline under the league’s policy regarding anabolic steroids and related substances.

 

Per a source with knowledge of the arguments, the Saints players have focused primarily on the fact that Dr. John Lombardo, the administrator of the steroids policy, had actual knowledge that StarCaps had been spiked with Bumetanide, a potent medication available only by prescription, and that Dr. Lombardo had failed to warn the league’s players regarding the presence of Bumetanide in StarCaps.

 

The league learned that StarCaps contained Bumetanide after a player who tested positive for the substance said he had taken StarCaps. Dr. Brian Finkle, the consulting toxicologist for the steroids policy, testified at last month’s hearing that he thereafter requested an investigation into StarCaps.

 

The investigation revealed that StarCaps contains Bumetanide.

 

Dr. Finkle also testified that he was concerned about the presence of Bumetanide in StarCaps, and that he had shared his concerns with Dr. Lombardo. Dr. Finkle testified that his final discussion with Dr. Lombardo centered on the best ways for communicating the information to players.

 

Ultimately, Dr. Lombardo opted to issue a memo to the players warning them generally about weight loss reduction products, without specifically mentioning StarCaps. Dr. Lombardo testified that, if StarCaps had been specifically mentioned, players would later claim that other supplements later determined to contain banned substances should have been mentioned as well.

 

In this specific case, however, it’s undisputed that Dr. Lombardo knew that StarCaps contains a prescription-only substance that NFL players are prohibited from taking. Surely, the memorandum could have been worded in a way that would have allowed Dr. Lombardo to specifically identify StarCaps as a product that secretly contains a banned substance while explaining generally that there might be other supplements that have been spiked with banned substances about which the league currently isn’t aware.

 

The Saints players also tackle the notion of “strict liability” as it relates to the presence of banned substances in their bodies. The players claim that the phenomenon is more accurately described as “assumption of the risk,” since the player who takes a product in reliance upon the truthfulness of its label is taking a chance that the product contains something that isn’t listed, and that he’ll bear the consequences via a four-game suspension. In this case, the players claim that the league was in a superior position to apprise them of the true risks they were assuming by taking StarCaps, but failed to do so.

 

Prior media reports have focused on the “Hotline” that the league makes available to players who have questions about certain supplements. We’re told that the Saints players contend in their brief that the Hotline merely recites for the players the information contained on a given product’s label, and that Will Smith testified that he called the Hotline regarding StarCaps, and was told nothing about the presence of Bumetanide in the product.

 

Although the steroids policy and its appendices clearly explain to players the general risks of taking over-the-counter supplements, the fact that Dr. Lombardo specifically knew that StarCaps had been spiked with a drug available only by prescription seems to make this case different from the usual situation of a player relying erroneously on the accuracy of a product label. Here, the NFL through its agents and/or employees knew that the label on the StarCaps product wasn’t accurate, but didn’t share that information with the players or their union.

 

Giving the players who ingested StarCaps a pass on this basis wouldn’t create a dangerous precedent for the league, in our view. The rule will continue to be that the players assume the risk that over-the-counter products not on the NFL’s approved list of supplements might contain a banned substance. The only exception will be that, if the NFL has actual knowledge that a supposedly legal supplement has been illegally spiked with a banned substance, the league won’t be permitted to suspend players unless the league has specifically warned the players and/or the union about the supplement in question.

 

Similar appeals are pending involving Vikings defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams, Falcons defensive tackle Grady Jackson, and Texans long snapper Bryan Pittman.

[Outshined]

UP TO 25 SAINTS TOOK STARCAPS?

Posted by Mike Florio on December 1, 2008, 11:11 a.m.

Though only three members of the New Orleans Saints currently face suspensions for taking StarCaps, which contained a secret, FDA-regulated ingredient not listed on the label, we’re told that defensive end Will Grant testified at the combined hearing of the appeals of Grant, Will Smith, and Deuce McAllister that as many as 25 Saints players were taking StarCaps.

 

A fourth Saints player, guard Jamar Nesbit, chose not to appeal his four-game suspension. He has since sued the manufacturer of StarCaps for his lost wages and other damages.

 

Other players currently facing four-game suspensions for testing positive for Bumetanide, the banned substance in StarCaps, are Vikings defensive tackle Kevin and Pat Williams, Falcons defensive tackle Grady Jackson, and Texans long snapper Bryan Pittman.

[jaxfactor]

Giving the players who ingested StarCaps a pass on this basis wouldn’t create a dangerous precedent for the league, in our view. The rule will continue to be that the players assume the risk that over-the-counter products not on the NFL’s approved list of supplements might contain a banned substance. The only exception will be that, if the NFL has actual knowledge that a supposedly legal supplement has been illegally spiked with a banned substance, the league won’t be permitted to suspend players unless the league has specifically warned the players and/or the union about the supplement in question.

 

I think this would be the fairest thing to do.

[Randall]

If the NFL is accountable for their own mistakes it would be a good precedent.

[Outshined]

If the NFL is accountable for their own mistakes it would be a good precedent.

 

 

Maybe Goodell should fine the doctor $5,000 and suspend him.

[Randall]

Maybe Goodell should fine the doctor $5,000 and suspend him.

 

 

 

I meant the NFL should hold itself responsibile because they didn't warn the players.

 

 

John Clayton talked about this today on NFL Live and said it doesn't look positive for these players.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Randall

[policyvote]

I think the fairest thing to do would be suspend all the Vikings players for one week, starting immediately.

 

 

Peace

policy

[peepinmofo]

I think the fairest thing to do would be suspend all the Vikings players for one week, starting immediately.

 

 

Peace

policy

 

The Lions would still find a way to lose!!

Edited December 2, 2008 by peepinmofo

[MikesVikes]

It's being reported that the Williams' suspensions will be upheld.

 

Star tribune has a link. link

 

Let the legal action commence.

[policyvote]

The Lions would still find a way to lose!!

 

Well, we'll see now. Obviously this won't make the Lions favored or anything, but removing the the heart of that defense makes the odds a hell of a lot better.

 

Peace

policy

[Outshined]

It's being reported that the Williams' suspensions will be upheld.

 

Star tribune has a link. link

 

Let the legal action commence.

 

 

Here come the lawyers

 

December 2, 2008 10:15 PM

 

Posted by ESPN.com's Kevin Seifert

 

It looks like Minnesota defensive tackles Kevin Williams and Pat Williams aren't going to go down without a fight -- and a potentially ugly one at that.

 

According to the St. Paul Pioneer Press, the players have retained a New York-based attorney who plans to file litigation Wednesday to prevent their four-game suspensions from taking effect. In an interview with the newspaper, attorney Peter Ginsberg issued some aggressive rhetoric that indicates he will bring intense public pressure on the NFL to reverse its decision.

 

Ginsberg said the NFL is "fictionalizing in fact what occurred" and said it should be "sanctioned for this kind of behavior."

 

Moreover, Ginsberg accused the NFL of caring only about "the commercial aspect of the league" and showed "gross disregard ... for the health and safety of the players" by not specifically informing them that the StarCaps weight-loss supplement contained a banned diuretic.

 

(The league said in a release Tuesday that it banned all products made by the manufacturer of StarCaps and revealed the connection to the NFL Players Association in 2006. The NFL's collectively-bargained steroids policy does not require a more specific revelation, the league said in a statement Tuesday.)

 

Ginsberg hammered the policy itself, saying: "It's not designed to protect the players. It's designed to placate politicians and protect the image of the league." He also called the suspensions "unfair" to the teams involved, their fans and the players."

 

All of this sounds good and fair. But from a legal standpoint, it will be interesting to see if Ginsberg has a case. Is he merely trying to pressure the league into reconsidering? Or does he have a fact-based argument that could exonerate his clients?

 

After all, the NFL and its Players Association have collectively-bargained the steroids policy. Would Ginsberg would have to argue that the policy was wrongly administered. Suggesting that the policy itself is unfair or illegal might not help because the players participated in its development.

 

At any rate, it's clear this issue is far from over.

[Valhalla]

What bugged me the most out of all this crap is that ALL of the players indicted are all big, bordering on fat (or planetary in Pat Williams case lol). Putting all of the allowed / banned items aside, common sense would dictate that you take a look at that in it of itself.

 

This whole thing is amazingly stupid, and up to this point I actually had some respect for the NFL's substance abuse preventative program.

[peepinmofo]

What bugged me the most out of all this crap is that ALL of the players indicted are all big, bordering on fat (or planetary in Pat Williams case lol). Putting all of the allowed / banned items aside, common sense would dictate that you take a look at that in it of itself.

 

This whole thing is amazingly stupid, and up to this point I actually had some respect for the NFL's substance abuse preventative program.

 

Wasnt Deuce McCalister on the list? He is far from fat...

[Savage Beatings]

It will be very interesting to me to see what kind of scrubs they can dredge up to try to fill in for these two if indeed they miss the next four games.

 

I didn't have a lot of hope for this season for the Vikings, so while this definitely sucks, the thing that bothers me the most is this... I fear that somehow this big of a factor for the team will give Childress some leverage in pleading to keep his job after this season (it's not MY fault that we are a boring team with no imagination, it's the league's fault for suspending two of our marquee players for the last quarter of the season).

[Guggs]

Too bad they are not Patriots. They would get a fine and then the NFL would quickly detroy the evidence.

The Patriots have the NFL in their backpockets.

[BillyBalata]

Not so fast.....

 

 

Vikings' Williamses win restraining order

 

 

By ROCHELLE OLSEN, Star Tribune

Last update: December 3, 2008 - 6:22 PM

 

Vikings defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams were granted a temporary restraining order Wednesday evening in Hennepin County District Court that allows them to pick up their playbook and return to team’s practice facility. However, Judge Gary Larson said a more extensive hearing on the players’ status will be scheduled in the near future.

 

Their status for Sunday’s game at Detroit remains uncertain, depending on when a hearing will take place, or whether the NFL will immediately appeal the decision.

 

On Tuesday, the NFL suspended the Williamses for the final four games of the regular season without pay for violating the league’s policy on anabolic steroids and related substances.

 

The Vikings are in first place in the NFC North and play in Detroit against the winless Lions on Sunday. After that game, they play three probable playoff teams. The suspensions were scheduled to take effect Sunday and end Dec. 29, a day after the team’s regular-season finale against the New York Giants.

 

However, the Williamses applied for an injunction Wednesday in Hennepin County District Court in an attempt to continue playing.

The Williamses are among six NFL players who were suspended Tuesday for using a diuretic that can serve as a masking agent for steroids.

 

The players took a product known as StarCaps, a weight-loss pill manufactured by California-based Balanced Health Products. An NFL-banned product known as bumetanide was in the pills but not listed as an ingredient.

 

Pat Williams stands to lose $941,176 of his $4 million in base salary; Kevin Williams would forfeit $235,294 of his $1 million in base salary.

[BillyBalata]

UPDATE 6:31 p.m. - Judge Gary Larson awarded a temporary restraining order to Pat and Kevin Williams in Hennepin County District Court, which means the Williams Wall is allowed to return to Winter Park immediately. According to various reports, another hearing is scheduled to take place in the coming days.

 

This doesn't mean the Williams Wall will be available for Sunday's game. Their fate will likely be determined at a future hearing. The NFL still has the opportunity to appeal the temporary restraining order as well.

 

Of course, even if the next hearing is delayed until after Sunday's game, Pat and Kevin still run the risk of having the court uphold the NFL's 4-game suspension. Such a scenario would mean Pat and Kevin would be suspended for a potential playoff game.

[Outshined]

Take it all the way to the Minnesota Supreme Court with Justice Alan Page presiding.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Outshined

[Big John]

Take it all the way to the Minnesota Supreme Court with Justice Allan Page presiding.

Or take it to Judge Harry Seymour Crump, who ruled to save the Twins?

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

 

Are you sure that judge didn't spell his last name Larsen with an E?

[Outshined]

Five players, including Vikings Kevin and Pat Williams, were suspended for violating the league's anti-doping policy.

 

Associated Press

 

Last update: December 5, 2008 - 2:13 PM

 

 

 

A federal judge in St. Paul has blocked the NFL from suspending five players for violating the league's anti-doping policy.

 

U.S. District Judge Paul Magnuson said Friday he needed more time to consider the case after hearing several hours of arguments from the league and the NFL Players Association.

 

Kevin Williams and Pat Williams of the Minnesota Vikings, and Charles Grant, Deuce McAllister and Will Smith of the New Orleans Saints all were suspended this week for four games. They tested positive for a banned diuretic in the dietary supplement StarCaps.

 

The union has argued the NFL didn't properly inform players about the substance. The NFL's attorneys argued that claim, and others, had been considered and rejected in a process set out by the league's collective bargaining agreement.

[Randall]

So then they may be suspended the first playoff game? I'm not sure I'd take that gamble.

[Outshined]

So then they may be suspended the first playoff game? I'm not sure I'd take that gamble.

 

 

I don't think they see it that way. The players probably feel they did nothing wrong and then losing 25% of their pay on top of it, they are aren't going down without a fight. A playoff spot isn't guaranteed at this point either, so they probably want them on the field too.