Tipping Ettiquette

[AtomicCEO]

Tim just illustrated this exact point. He doesn't want to know what's going on. He doesn't want to hear what's going on. He just want's his sammich. Oh, but he also is "certain" that he knows why restaurants have food runners and uses this faulty logic about an industry that he makes abundantly clear he knows nothing about as his reason for why he hates the practice.

 

He's right, too. If it pisses him off, you're doing it wrong even if you think it's right.

 

That's another business lesson right there: "If you're pissing off your customers, you're doing it wrong". Make a motivational poster.

 

In vegas you and I drank together for an hour. You had 38 beers. I had 5. We split it down the middle. Then we cuddled

 

The first time I met H8, I took off without paying a dime.

 

Atomic's hands

[westvirginia]

Wow, that's gonna hurt. Dude, don't bring out the clever to cut that toast, let the guy have a butter knife!

 

 

I've been biting my tongue this whole thread wanting to say something about toast...

[wiegie]

That's another business lesson right there: "If you're pissing off your customers, you're doing it wrong". Make a motivational poster.

My own personal work motto is: "If you're not pissing off your students, you're doing it wrong".

Edited April 15, 2009 by wiegie

[Bier Meister]

professor kelley: My own personal work motto is: "If you're not pissing on your students, you're doing it wrong".

[wiegie]

100% true story--last week I gave back an exam to my intro macro students and (among other things) I told them their performance was horrible and that they pissed all over themselves on their exams.

 

They weren't too happy with me.

[muck]

100% true story--last week I gave back an exam to my intro macro students and (among other things) I told them their performance was horrible and that they pissed all over themselves on their exams.

 

They weren't too happy with me.

 

GB tenure.

[detlef]

He's right, too. If it pisses him off, you're doing it wrong even if you think it's right.

 

That's another business lesson right there: "If you're pissing off your customers, you're doing it wrong". Make a motivational poster.

You know, I think it's more important to you to sound clever, even if only to yourself, than it is to be relevant or correct.

 

Tim has every right to be pissed if his service sucks. If, for instance, he constantly has to ask someone who can't help to send over someone who can. I can also understand, as Azz pointed out, the inclination to start speculating as to the root of the problem and further the inability to understand actually what the problem is.

 

None the less, that doesn't make his conclusion correct or "right". Thus, if he gets it in his head that one of the tell tale signs of bad service is when someone other than your waiter brings you your food, he owes, mostly to himself, to get over it, because that is simply not the case. If, however, the service happens to suck, then I suppose he's free to draw whatever conclusions he wants as to why that is because it doesn't really matter. The restaurant failed him on some level and it doesn't really matter why. They suck at their job. End of story.

 

However, as I and others have mentioned, there are tons of restaurants who use the waiter/runner system to deliver better service than they or anyone else could do without it. Again, if Tim wants to be annoyed by it, oh well. However, he used that annoyance as a basis to imply incorrectly that the motives for employing this style of service were less than noble. That is where he is quite simply wrong.

 

And that's where he and you said, once I pointed this out, that you weren't really interested in hearing how this whole deal works. That's fine, but if you don't want a lecture on how my business works, don't make incorrect assumptions about it.

 

It's really that simple.

[Bring Back Pat!!!]

It is pretty customary. When I started, waiters were told to tip out a certain percentage of their tips but now more and more places do it as a percentage of sales. Maybe because they were afraid that waiters weren't very good about being fair since nobody knows what they make.

 

That said, something is pretty crazy about the numbers you gave. If you're tipping out 10% of your sales, that means you're likely tipping out more than you're keeping unless you do better than 20%. Something your example doesn't bear out (nor does it bear out if those percentages are of your tips for that matter). We have waiters tip on percentage of sales but it's not even close to those levels, not at all.

 

The percentages are based on sales in that department. So 7% of alcohol sales go to the bar tenders and 3% of food sales go to the runners. Servers get their own sodas, coffees, and any other non-alcohol drink, so those are not included in the sales tipped out on. I have been running right around 20% so far based on total sales, but have been selling a lot of coffee an hot chocolates since it's still chilly at night here.

It seemed like an awful lot to me, the percents tipped out on. Once the summer gets going we will be selling more alcohol. Tipping out 10% of sales could be a killer real soon. Some of the servers that worked there last year keeps telling us to wait for the $200-$250 nights to start. But if I'm tipping out $100 on those nights, is it really worth it?

[detlef]

The percentages are based on sales in that department. So 7% of alcohol sales go to the bar tenders and 3% of food sales go to the runners. Servers get their own sodas, coffees, and any other non-alcohol drink, so those are not included in the sales tipped out on. I have been running right around 20% so far based on total sales, but have been selling a lot of coffee an hot chocolates since it's still chilly at night here.

It seemed like an awful lot to me, the percents tipped out on. Once the summer gets going we will be selling more alcohol. Tipping out 10% of sales could be a killer real soon. Some of the servers that worked there last year keeps telling us to wait for the $200-$250 nights to start. But if I'm tipping out $100 on those nights, is it really worth it?

Gotcha.

 

I'll just add that perhaps the most important thing for you to determine is whether or not the work your doing is worth the money you're talking home. That's really all that matters. My guess is that the restaurant has fine tuned the rates to make sure that they can not only attract waiters but also bartenders and runners. If you were keeping more of your tips, then maybe the runners wouldn't make jack and they'd have a high turnover. They could have less runners (or even do away with them) and you'd have less to tip out, but then they'd have to give you a smaller section or you'd get overwhelmed.

 

This can be a hard thing for servers to come to grips with but you're really just accepting tips on behalf of your whole support crew. It's not your money until you walk out with it. There's a website called waiterrant where waiters basically bitch about the industry and customers. One bartender did a bunch of private parties for his restaurant for a flat rate. He admitted that the money was good for the amount of time. Then he found out that the restaurant was charging the customer more for his services than they were paying him and flip out. A chorus of people are started chiming in about how sleazy this was. All I could think was that dude said the money was good for the work, so what's the big deal?

[Azazello1313]

You know, I think it's more important to you to sound clever, even if only to yourself, than it is to be relevant or correct.

 

 

[Azazello1313]

The percentages are based on sales in that department. So 7% of alcohol sales go to the bar tenders and 3% of food sales go to the runners. Servers get their own sodas, coffees, and any other non-alcohol drink, so those are not included in the sales tipped out on. I have been running right around 20% so far based on total sales, but have been selling a lot of coffee an hot chocolates since it's still chilly at night here.

It seemed like an awful lot to me, the percents tipped out on. Once the summer gets going we will be selling more alcohol. Tipping out 10% of sales could be a killer real soon. Some of the servers that worked there last year keeps telling us to wait for the $200-$250 nights to start. But if I'm tipping out $100 on those nights, is it really worth it?

 

it won't be 10% if what you said in the first part is correct. if you're tipping out 3% on food, 7% on booze and 0% on soft drinks and such...you wouldn't add those together to figure what you'll be paying out, because they aren't cumulative. you will actually be paying out an average of the three based on their proportion of your overall sales. probably under 5% unless you're slinging a lot of booze....and if you're slinging a lot of booze your overall take is going to be higher.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Azazello1313

[Bring Back Pat!!!]

it won't be 10% if what you said in the first part is correct. if you're tipping out 3% on food, 7% on booze and 0% on soft drinks and such...you wouldn't add those together to figure what you'll be paying out, because they aren't cumulative. you will actually be paying out an average of the three based on their proportion of your overall sales. probably under 5% unless you're slinging a lot of booze....and if you're slinging a lot of booze your overall take is going to be higher.

 

 

I'll be slinging a lot of booze, I know that already. Had a bill of $250 on a table of 8 guys, and it was close to $175 in alcohol, including three pitchers of sangria.

 

I'll have to see how things work out once we get into the warmer weather. Right now, we haven't had more than 8-10 tables on the patio at one time. Come summer, all 28 (including bar high tops) are generally full, plus a waiting list. That's when I'll know how this will work out.

[detlef]

I'll be slinging a lot of booze, I know that already. Had a bill of $250 on a table of 8 guys, and it was close to $175 in alcohol, including three pitchers of sangria.

Friends of whomper's, I guess?

[jelap1]

I'll be slinging a lot of booze, I know that already. Had a bill of $250 on a table of 8 guys, and it was close to $175 in alcohol, including three pitchers of sangria.

 

Did these “guys” happen to live in the new TCU housing?

[TimC]

I didn't say it was wrong to have a food server...I said it was unprofessional. Most waiters say "I'll be taking care of you tonight." Ummmm, no you won't. Really, I'm here for the food more than the drink and bread and salad, but when it comes to the most important reason why I'm here, you decide to bail out on me. Why you gotta leave me at the most critical time for the most important thing?

[detlef]

I didn't say it was wrong to have a food server...I said it was unprofessional. Most waiters say "I'll be taking care of you tonight." Ummmm, no you won't. Really, I'm here for the food more than the drink and bread and salad, but when it comes to the most important reason why I'm here, you decide to bail out on me. Why you gotta leave me at the most critical time for the most important thing?

A) that's pretty much the same thing and Bee) It is quite simply not true. I hire a lawyer to do something for me and then come to find that he turns around and delegates some of the tasks to his assistant. Should I be pissed? Provided, of course, that what I need to get done, gets done? I mean, my attorney could have personally spent hours preparing boiler plate stuff but his time is better spent talking to myself and his other clients. Or are you under the impression that you're the only table that waiter is serving. Do we need to establish that?

 

That's the thing. Provided the restaurant knows what they're doing, running the food is among the most mundane and simple tasks that need to be done. Take this plate to that dude over there. That is precisely the sort of thing that a "professional" would delegate. Now, this same "professional" should not take advantage of the time freed up by this to go have a smoke and should spend that time helping guide both you and his other clients through their best food and drink choices and/or seeing that everything is going well. If he fails to do that, he's a bad waiter.

 

Again, that's not a fault of the system, that's a bunch of idiots screwing up an otherwise good system who would no likely give you better service if they didn't have food runners.

 

Oh, that and I'm sure any of the GMs of the top restaurants in the country, nearly all of whom employ this system would love to know that they're "unprofessional". Would you feel better if the waiter brought the two runners over at the beginning and said, "Hi, I'll be taking your order. These guys will be running your food, and, in the event that I'm otherwise busy and your drinks are up, any number of these other guys will be bringing them to you." Dude, the system is there to make it so you get your stuff as soon after it comes up as possible. Why is that bad?

Edited April 15, 2009 by detlef

[TimC]

If a restaurant is going to lower itself to having the waiter doing everything but the most important task and the reason that most diners are there....insuring the food is correct as ordered the first time, then, yes, I'd say it is unprofessional. Most of the really nice restaurants have the waiter/waitress at least escort the food server person and verify everything is okay. It is unprofessional when the waiter doesn't at least do this IMO.

 

I normally just tell them to beg for my forgiveness.

[detlef]

If a restaurant is going to lower itself to having the waiter doing everything but the most important task and the reason that most diners are there....insuring the food is correct as ordered the first time, then, yes, I'd say it is unprofessional. Most of the really nice restaurants have the waiter/waitress at least escort the food server person and verify everything is okay. It is unprofessional when the waiter doesn't at least do this IMO.

 

I normally just tell them to beg for my forgiveness.

So, just so I have this straight. It is more important that your order is brought to you by a specific person than you get your food in a timely manner, provided your order is correct? Because that's the trade-off. Not always, but in general.

 

Or, of course, you could just have a ton of waiters so nobody has anymore than two tables. That would mean the restaurant would have to subsidize the fact that they didn't make jack for tips and, thus would have to charge you more. Is it worth another $5 a plate for the comfy feeling of knowing you're being swaddled by the loving hands of one person? Or can you just be content unless something does, in fact, go wrong.

Edited April 15, 2009 by detlef

[TimC]

So, just so I have this straight. It is more important that your order is brought to you by a specific person than you get your food in a timely manner, provided your order is correct? Because that's the trade-off. Not always, but in general.

 

I would think someone making $2.50 an hour could multi-task.

[TimC]

Or, of course, you could just have a ton of waiters so nobody has anymore than two tables. That would mean the restaurant would have to subsidize the fact that they didn't make jack for tips and, thus would have to charge you more. Is it worth another $5 a plate for the comfy feeling of knowing you're being swaddled by the loving hands of one person? Or can you just be content unless something does, in fact, go wrong.

 

Oh, and to answer your edit. I already have. The reason for food runners is so restaurants can employ 2 waiters and 1 food runner instead of 4 waiters it would require to serve all the tables promptly without interfering with the other tables.

[detlef]

Oh, and to answer your edit. I already have. The reason for food runners is so restaurants can employ 2 waiters and 1 food runner instead of 4 waiters it would require to serve all the tables promptly without interfering with the other tables.

Carry on, I'm already embarrassed that I took the bait as it is. I need to salvage some degree of self-respect and spit out the hook.

Edited April 15, 2009 by detlef

[Jackass]

If a restaurant is going to lower itself to having the waiter doing everything but the most important task and the reason that most diners are there....insuring the food is correct as ordered the first time, then, yes, I'd say it is unprofessional. Most of the really nice restaurants have the waiter/waitress at least escort the food server person and verify everything is okay. It is unprofessional when the waiter doesn't at least do this IMO.

 

I normally just tell them to beg for my forgiveness.

 

Do you fall in love with your waiter when you first meet? Why would it matter who brought your food?

[TimC]

Do you fall in love with your waiter when you first meet? Why would it matter who brought your food?

 

I fall madly deeply in love. 9 out of 10 times it matters not. It matters because if something is wrong, the food server person can never fix it and must hunt down the waiter. It's like dealing with the middle man. Meanwhile, everyone is at the table wondering if they should start eating or not. By then, the whole meal is destroyed. And then if the waiter is over there taking 10 minutes for an order, your meal is ruined because they simply forgot the butter for your baked potato. (I know I'm being extreme, but it'd be easier to simply cut out the middle man, but most places want to save the salary.)

[Jackass]

I fall madly deeply in love. 9 out of 10 times it matters not. It matters because if something is wrong, the food server person can never fix it and must hunt down the waiter. It's like dealing with the middle man. Meanwhile, everyone is at the table wondering if they should start eating or not. By then, the whole meal is destroyed. And then if the waiter is over there taking 10 minutes for an order, your meal is ruined because they simply forgot the butter for your baked potato. (I know I'm being extreme, but it'd be easier to simply cut out the middle man, but most places want to save the salary.)

 

In top notch restaurants, this should not be an issue, as the food runner should be trained to handle any issue that might arise. If this is not your experience, maybe you should find some new and better restaurants.

[detlef]

I fall madly deeply in love. 9 out of 10 times it matters not. It matters because if something is wrong, the food server person can never fix it and must hunt down the waiter. It's like dealing with the middle man. Meanwhile, everyone is at the table wondering if they should start eating or not. By then, the whole meal is destroyed. And then if the waiter is over there taking 10 minutes for an order, your meal is ruined because they simply forgot the butter for your baked potato. (I know I'm being extreme, but it'd be easier to simply cut out the middle man, but most places want to save the salary.)

Must....re.....sist.....

 

4 waiters at $2.13 per hour

= $8.52 per hour labor cost

 

2 waiters at $2.13 per hour

1 runner at $5.00 per hour (paid more because they don't make as much tips)

= $9.26 per hour labor cost

 

This is an additional cost a restaurant will take on because they've determined over the years that this is the most efficient way to run a dining room, thus the best way to ensure that as many of their customers as possible are getting served in a timely and accurate manner. I suppose they've decided that more people want to get good service than feel a unique connection with one stranger for the duration of the evening. It is no surprise to me that many fail regardless because, well, there's a lot of bad restaurants out there.