Tipping Ettiquette

[TimC]

note:

 

i am surprised that not only are you guys not gaulking over the new female huddler, but are in the process of chasing her away.

 

Hey babe, do you like Corvettes, Hall & Oates and Star Trek? Preferrably all at the same time.

[Azazello1313]

Hey babe, do you like Corvettes, Hall & Oates and Star Trek? Preferrably all at the same time as a tiny little weenus.

 

go timmay.

[TimC]

go timmay.

 

"She" wants me. Like there are girls on the innernets.

[muck]

What is gaulking?

 

I always thought it was gawking...

 

...alas, I just got back from tipping 3.48% for lunch. I think my servant was pleased.

[Big John]

What is gaulking?

 

I always thought it was gawking...

Bier types like Yukon spells.

[bpwallace49]

...alas, I just got back from tipping 3.48% for lunch. I think my servant was pleased.

 

Best post in this overblown thread . . .

[Bier Meister]

What is gaulking?

 

I always thought it was gawking...

 

 

WHAT?! unprecidented! a huddler making an issue out of a typo or misspelling? i'm glad you were able to ultimately figure it out. i wouldn't want you to miss the meaning with that gawd awefull spelling.

[detlef]

...alas, I just got back from tipping 3.48% for lunch. I think my servant was pleased.

 

 

Best post in this overblown thread . . .

Though doesn't "alas" imply some degree of regret? Muck? Do you have something you need to get off your chest?

[bpwallace49]

Though doesn't "alas" imply some degree of regret? Muck? Do you have something you need to get off your chest?

 

Or out of your wallet?

[Azazello1313]

Worse. He's a gawd-danged pot smoking hippie food runner. God, food runners suck.

 

I figured out what the bp stands for. bread pirate wallace.

[tazinib1]

I figured out what the bp stands for. bread pirate wallace.

 

[darin3]

I figured out what the bp stands for. bread pirate wallace.

Are you sure that's bread?

[bpwallace49]

I figured out what the bp stands for. bread pirate wallace.

 

"bread pirate"?

 

niiiice.

[TimC]

I figured out what the bp stands for. bread pirate wallace.

 

And 49 indicates how many pennies Muck tips him on a $14.08 check.

[McBoog]

I'm way late in the conversation and see that it has deteriorated pages ago, but my

 

I am insulted that a gratuity is added to ANY bill. The presumption that the service will be acceptable before provided is rude and not professional. A tip is something that should be earned, not expected or demanded!

 

I have tipped as much as 30% for truly outstanding service at an expensive restaurant (the bill was just under $200 for three people and I left $60) and I have no qualms about leaving ZERO as well. I have told managers that if they add 15% (for example), that is all they are going to get assuming the service meets that requirement. If I am not permitted to change that number down, we go somewhere else, but I will NEVER go higher. If an employer is paying their employees lower, based on the fact that they know they will earn tips, this too is BS if they are adding the gratuity to "watch out" for their peeps. Raise your prices and pay your employees with the mentality that they will be OK if they get nothing. Hire crappy servers and they get crappy tips! Hire and TRAIN good servers, they get great tips and attract repeat customers. This whole "adding it in" thingy is a way of reducing the responsibility and effort of the establishment toward assuring good customer service.

 

I worked my way through college as a bartender (and was the lead bartender for two years), and we also would serve food at the bar (I would be responsible for placing and serving that order). I NEVER believed I deserved a tip and always worked my hardest to EARN one. My wife has worked in and managed hair salons for two decades. Tips were always considered "the cream". Never expected or planned for in the budgeting.

 

Self-entitlement and a belief that you are "owed" something for nothing in return, especially up front, is destroying this country as we know it. This is my one little way of maintaining control over my little piece of that attitude.

[bpwallace49]

Mcboog-

 

Excellent points across the board. I do not know how or why the whole tipping atmosphere was created or established strictly for the food service industry, but it is what it is.

 

I run private country clubs. Some clubs I have ran had a strict no tipping policy and paid their waiters a fair wage and benefits as a result. restaurants cant/wont do this because it will negatively impact their profit margin, so the main onus for compensation comes from the client/customer, not the corporation. Works well for clubs, but clubs will never attract the top server talent available because they can make more at the steakhouse down the street.

[TimC]

Does any restaurant out there offer benefits? I really don't know if they have health/life insurance like other places for their full-time employees? I'm guessing they are too small to do so.

 

ETA: Even the chains like Outback? I'm guessing they could pool their resources across the state or country to have enough employees to offer some benefits. Or are they more like Wal-Mart?

Edited April 22, 2009 by TimC

[bpwallace49]

Does any restaurant out there offer benefits? I really don't know if they have health/life insurance like other places for their full-time employees? I'm guessing they are too small to do so.

 

ETA: Even the chains like Outback? I'm guessing they could pool their resources across the state or country to have enough employees to offer some benefits. Or are they more like Wal-Mart?

 

Most do not to hourly servers. There is a ton of turnover and administration costs are high. Some DO offer the opportunity to purchase insurance, but do not help subsidize those benefits like in most other industries. Managers get medical benefits as part of compensation.

 

Smaller stand-alones (I am sure detlef can answer on this one) dont simply because the costs are astronomical for small-scale employers.

[detlef]

I'm way late in the conversation and see that it has deteriorated pages ago, but my

 

I am insulted that a gratuity is added to ANY bill. The presumption that the service will be acceptable before provided is rude and not professional. A tip is something that should be earned, not expected or demanded!

 

I have tipped as much as 30% for truly outstanding service at an expensive restaurant (the bill was just under $200 for three people and I left $60) and I have no qualms about leaving ZERO as well. I have told managers that if they add 15% (for example), that is all they are going to get assuming the service meets that requirement. If I am not permitted to change that number down, we go somewhere else, but I will NEVER go higher. If an employer is paying their employees lower, based on the fact that they know they will earn tips, this too is BS if they are adding the gratuity to "watch out" for their peeps. Raise your prices and pay your employees with the mentality that they will be OK if they get nothing. Hire crappy servers and they get crappy tips! Hire and TRAIN good servers, they get great tips and attract repeat customers. This whole "adding it in" thingy is a way of reducing the responsibility and effort of the establishment toward assuring good customer service.

 

I worked my way through college as a bartender (and was the lead bartender for two years), and we also would serve food at the bar (I would be responsible for placing and serving that order). I NEVER believed I deserved a tip and always worked my hardest to EARN one. My wife has worked in and managed hair salons for two decades. Tips were always considered "the cream". Never expected or planned for in the budgeting.

 

Self-entitlement and a belief that you are "owed" something for nothing in return, especially up front, is destroying this country as we know it. This is my one little way of maintaining control over my little piece of that attitude.

Your argument has a serious hole in it. On one hand, you think it is outrageous that a restaurant would not give you the opportunity to decide what the service is worth. This is an understandable stance but it should again be noted that in nearly every other transaction, we aren't given this luxury. When you get your car fixed, for instance, you pay parts and labor and neither is negotiable. You don't pay for the parts and some of the labor and then decide on how much of the balance they deserve. None the less, waiter compensation is what it is and I'm not crying for them because, in general it works out fine enough. By and large, waiters are not being screwed by the way the system is set up. However...

 

On the other hand, you seem to be OK with restaurants simply raising their prices and paying their waiters enough to make tipping truly optional. How exactly is this any different than simply tacking on an auto grat? In both cases, the server is only motivated by simply doing a good job for doing a good jobs sake because in both cases they are assured compensation. In both cases, the cost of that employee is being passed on to you, it's just that one is less transparent than the other.

 

So what is it?

 

I've said before that I am no fan of the tipping system but simply realize that it would not be remotely worth the battle to unilaterally raise my prices, pay the waiters more, and explain to people that there's really no net change in the cost of their meal. I didn't invent the rules, I just play by them.

Edited April 22, 2009 by detlef

[detlef]

Does any restaurant out there offer benefits? I really don't know if they have health/life insurance like other places for their full-time employees? I'm guessing they are too small to do so.

 

ETA: Even the chains like Outback? I'm guessing they could pool their resources across the state or country to have enough employees to offer some benefits. Or are they more like Wal-Mart?

 

 

Most do not to hourly servers. There is a ton of turnover and administration costs are high. Some DO offer the opportunity to purchase insurance, but do not help subsidize those benefits like in most other industries. Managers get medical benefits as part of compensation.

 

Smaller stand-alones (I am sure detlef can answer on this one) dont simply because the costs are astronomical for small-scale employers.

I've actually been researching this lately, as a rule, small places like mine typically don't. From what I'm discovering, if I offer it at all, I have to offer it to any full-time employee (not just managers) and, in my case, that would be the vast majority of my employees. Further, I'm obligated to bear a significant portion of the cost of doing so. I can't just invite them to buy into group coverage on their own dime. Or at least, it doesn't seem that way.

 

If this is the case, then I'm afraid that I won't be able to afford it.

[bpwallace49]

If you are a massive corportaion like Lettuce Entertain You or the Darden group you can afford to get full time, typically longer tenured servers and bartenders benefits as you have a larger group to draw from.

 

The other issue is balancing your turnover and training costs versus the costs of skyrocketing health care premiums. If you are in a small stand along restaurnat with a small demographic, all it takes is one employee to get cancer and the next year your premiums will be so high that you are forced to drop coverage.

 

It is illegal for insurance companies to DENY coverage because you ahve sick people and a small amount of particpants to distribute risk, but the can, do, and WILL raise your monthly premiums by 300+% so you "voluntarily" drop coverage.

 

Another "awesome" part of our health care system . . .

[westvirginia]

If you are a massive corportaion like Lettuce Entertain You or the Darden group you can afford to get full time, typically longer tenured servers and bartenders benefits as you have a larger group to draw from.

 

The other issue is balancing your turnover and training costs versus the costs of skyrocketing health care premiums. If you are in a small stand along restaurnat with a small demographic, all it takes is one employee to get cancer and the next year your premiums will be so high that you are forced to drop coverage.

 

It is illegal for insurance companies to DENY coverage because you ahve sick people and a small amount of particpants to distribute risk, but the can, do, and WILL raise your monthly premiums by 300+% so you "voluntarily" drop coverage.

 

Another "awesome" part of our health care system . . .

 

Yeah because the owners and investors of the health insurance companies should be forced to lose money...

[bpwallace49]

Yeah because the owners and investors of the health insurance companies should be forced to lose money...

 

Never said they were forced to lose money "oh ye of no reading comphrension".

 

It is simply the way the system is set up, and it surely doesnt benefit small businesses . . .

[McBoog]

Your argument has a serious hole in it. ...

 

On the other hand, you seem to be OK with restaurants simply raising their prices and paying their waiters enough to make tipping truly optional. How exactly is this any different than simply tacking on an auto grat? In both cases, the server is only motivated by simply doing a good job for doing a good jobs sake because in both cases they are assured compensation. In both cases, the cost of that employee is being passed on to you, it's just that one is less transparent than the other.

 

So what is it?...

 

No holes from MY perspective. You want me to eat at your joint, don't force me to tip up front. Simple.

 

By you raising your prices, you now have more at stake in the type of service and the training required to provide the service YOU as the OWNER demand. You will be more vigilant of what the servers are doing and how they are acting and YOU will realize that YOU have more at stake in how they represent you.

 

If the quality of your product is the same as the guy next door, there are still many of us that would be willing to pay some more for better service and a feeling that "you want me there". The better service still results in nice tips for the servers and they in turn are doubly rewarded. This is a BIG reason why cops like local joints (usually) as opposed to chain type eateries. They are known by name and greeted when they walk in and their presence is appreciated. As a LEO, I have NEVER accepted a free meal, though offered one often. I just like the fact that I know the owner and he/she is happy to see me when I walk in. This is ALWAYS a 20%er. No question.

 

An auto grat means the servers get it without trying. You are basically "hiding" the cost of your doing business by forcing me to pay your employees while having no say in their actual work ethic and attitude. I'm just making you more responsible for what happens inside YOUR digs. Also, you avoid paying higher taxes on the "actual" profit of the meal and are forcing the employee, who has to declare this "extra" income, to pay your taxes on their salary.

 

Even when I pay with plastic, I prefer to leave a tip in cash. Then it is in the court of the server to do the right thing with declaring the income. Some of these folks (a lot of them!?!?) don't make enough to matter much anyway, and they are the ones YOU penalize by declaring these wages for them, reducing their short term capitol until they file for a refund.

 

BUT, it really all boils down to the first line of this post, "You want me to eat at your joint, don't force me to tip up front. Simple."

 

All of this is moot, obviously, if you are the owner of the Krusty Krab.

[McBoog]

If you are a massive corportaion like Lettuce Entertain You or the Darden group you can afford to get full time, typically longer tenured servers and bartenders benefits as you have a larger group to draw from.

 

The other issue is balancing your turnover and training costs versus the costs of skyrocketing health care premiums. If you are in a small stand along restaurnat with a small demographic, all it takes is one employee to get cancer and the next year your premiums will be so high that you are forced to drop coverage.

 

It is illegal for insurance companies to DENY coverage because you ahve sick people and a small amount of particpants to distribute risk, but the can, do, and WILL raise your monthly premiums by 300+% so you "voluntarily" drop coverage.

 

Another "awesome" part of our health care system . . .

 

I thought there were companies that would let you pool your employee base with that of other small businesses, forming a sort of coalition. I know I've seen them advertised.