Tipping Ettiquette

[Cunning Runt]

This.

 

I don't want to know anything about why being a waiter or a restaurant owner is such a challenge, any more than my customers want to hear about how difficult my job is. They just want the job done. If they really wanted to be involved with all the challenges and BS, they'd do it themselves rather than hire me.

 

Give me a seat. Give me my drinks. Give me my food. Give me my check. If you have complications and challenges on top of these simple tasks, that seems like a massive breakdown of the dining experience that isn't my problem.

 

Yep.

[Cunning Runt]

QUOTE (Azazello1313 @ 4/13/09 11:13am)

may be slightly more true of women than of men....but really it just depends which type of either you chose to marry. I will say, however, I love the figure-it-to-the-last-penny type infinitely more than the d00sh who gets a 9 dollar burger, a 2.50 coke and gets his 12 bucks in there before anyone else looks at the bill.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but how exactly are the two people different? You love the "figure it to the last penny" type more than someone who got a $9 burger and a $2.50 coke and throws in $12 before any else looked at the bill? I don't get that at all. They know what they spent and they're paying their share - what difference does it make if anyone else had seen the bill first? Hopefully that person tipped on top of that $12, but your post doesn't say.

[Azazello1313]

QUOTE (Azazello1313 @ 4/13/09 11:13am)

may be slightly more true of women than of men....but really it just depends which type of either you chose to marry. I will say, however, I love the figure-it-to-the-last-penny type infinitely more than the d00sh who gets a 9 dollar burger, a 2.50 coke and gets his 12 bucks in there before anyone else looks at the bill.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but how exactly are the two people different? You love the "figure it to the last penny" type more than someone who got a $9 burger and a $2.50 coke and throws in $12 before any else looked at the bill? I don't get that at all. They know what they spent and they're paying their share - what difference does it make if anyone else had seen the bill first? Hopefully that person tipped on top of that $12, but your post doesn't say.

 

the point is, $12 bucks isn't their fair share. thought that was obvious, but maybe not for everyone.

[Cunning Runt]

And for my third and final post in this installment, let me tell you what my wife and I hate.....

 

Example - we were at a restaurant in Greektown (Chicago) with friends, but mainly only friends of one couple who were in turn friends with the other couples there. I think it was their engagement party and we were the out-of-towners whereas everyone else was local and all knew each other.

 

In any event, my wife and I consciously ordered on the cheap - splitting a dish, not drinking wine, etc.. because we didn't really care for the menu offerings and frankly we just didnt feel like dropping a ton of coin on dinner.

 

Everyone else though was going to town - appetizers, multiple bottles of expensive wine, etc... At the end, I was expecting my check for like $20 total, but no - one of the more outgoing folks said - "it's $x amount, let's just divide it up evenly". No one else objected since they were all probably pretty close in amount spent. And I didn't object 'since I didn't want to be the "tool" and nor embarrass my wife and her friend by being the "only tightass" in the bunch. But my $20 expected cost ended up over $100.

 

To this day that evening pisses me off. Rude as hell in my book.

[Cunning Runt]

the point is, $12 bucks isn't their fair share. thought that was obvious, but maybe not for everyone.

 

Well, it still isn't that clear to me unless you're saying $12 leaves them a little short due to the tip. I made that distinction in my original post.

 

Cause they're over on just the food.

[Azazello1313]

Well, it still isn't that clear to me unless you're saying $12 leaves them a little short due to the tip. I made that distinction in my original post.

 

Cause they're over on just the food.

 

12 bucks doesn't even cover the tax. geez, I guess we outed you here, mr. 12 bucks

 

huddle nation, take note: separate tabs if you ever meet up with CR.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Azazello1313

[Cunning Runt]

12 bucks doesn't even cover the tax. geez, I guess we outed you here, mr. 12 bucks

 

huddle nation, take note: separate tabs if you ever meet up with CR.

 

I get it now.

 

Nah, I pay more than my fair share most times, and always at least my fair share. I honestly just wasn't getting what your point was. I'm a little slow today.

[Cunning Runt]

huddle nation, take note: separate tabs if you ever meet up with CR.

 

It's definitely my preference. I won't lie. I'll buy the first round though, and probably a few after that too.

[detlef]

This.

 

I don't want to know anything about why being a waiter or a restaurant owner is such a challenge, any more than my customers want to hear about how difficult my job is. They just want the job done. If they really wanted to be involved with all the challenges and BS, they'd do it themselves rather than hire me.

 

Give me a seat. Give me my drinks. Give me my food. Give me my check. If you have complications and challenges on top of these simple tasks, that seems like a massive breakdown of the dining experience that isn't my problem.

That's fine with me. Here's the deal though, nobody pretends to know what is going on in your business they way they seem to pretend to know about the restaurant biz. It seems like everyone who's ever cooked a batch of chili thinks they know what's going on in restaurants. Meanwhile just because you've plugged in a light doesn't seem to make anyone think they can wire a house.

 

Tim just illustrated this exact point. He doesn't want to know what's going on. He doesn't want to hear what's going on. He just want's his sammich. Oh, but he also is "certain" that he knows why restaurants have food runners and uses this faulty logic about an industry that he makes abundantly clear he knows nothing about as his reason for why he hates the practice.

 

Seriously, I would love it if people who don't understand the business just kept it that way. Come in, have a seat, order your food and drinks, enjoy their company and save their complaints for things that actually happened. However, topics like this turn into tutorials on the biz for one reason and one reason only, because people who don't know what is going on pretend to know what is going on. Then people who actually do have to step in and break it down for them.

 

Consider yourself lucky that you work in an industry that less people pretend to understand.

Edited April 14, 2009 by detlef

[Cunning Runt]

That's fine with me. Here's the deal though, nobody pretends to know what is going on in your business they way they seem to pretend to know about the restaurant biz. It seems like everyone who's ever cooked a batch of chili thinks they know what's going on in restaurants. Meanwhile just because you've plugged in a light doesn't seem to make anyone think they can wire a house.

 

Tim just illustrated this exact point. He doesn't want to know what's going on. He doesn't want to hear what's going on. He just want's his sammich. Oh, but he also is "certain" that he knows why restaurants have food runners and uses this faulty logic about an industry that he makes abundantly clear he knows nothing about as his reason for why he hates the practice.

 

Seriously, I would love it if people who don't understand the business just kept it that way. Come in, have a seat, order your food and drinks, enjoy their company and save their complaints for things that actually happened. However, topics like this turn into tutorials on the biz for one reason and one reason only, because people who don't know what is going on pretend to know what is going on. Then people who actually do have to step in and break it down for them.

 

Consider yourself lucky that you work in an industry that less people pretend to understand.

 

Please dude - just 'cause you own a restaurant, don't try to tell people how they should feel about their restaurant-experiences. Pretty f'ing arrogant if ya ask me.

[Big Country]

people who don't know what is going on pretend to know what is going on.

 

I believe they are called "consultants".

[whomper]

12 bucks doesn't even cover the tax. geez, I guess we outed you here, mr. 12 bucks

 

huddle nation, take note: separate tabs if you ever meet up with CR.

 

 

My friend used to do that to me when we gambled together on the same number. If we bet 100 and lost he calculated that he owed 50. never added the Vigs. Bastard

[Jackass]

And for my third and final post in this installment, let me tell you what my wife and I hate.....

 

Example - we were at a restaurant in Greektown (Chicago) with friends, but mainly only friends of one couple who were in turn friends with the other couples there. I think it was their engagement party and we were the out-of-towners whereas everyone else was local and all knew each other.

 

In any event, my wife and I consciously ordered on the cheap - splitting a dish, not drinking wine, etc.. because we didn't really care for the menu offerings and frankly we just didnt feel like dropping a ton of coin on dinner.

 

Everyone else though was going to town - appetizers, multiple bottles of expensive wine, etc... At the end, I was expecting my check for like $20 total, but no - one of the more outgoing folks said - "it's $x amount, let's just divide it up evenly". No one else objected since they were all probably pretty close in amount spent. And I didn't object 'since I didn't want to be the "tool" and nor embarrass my wife and her friend by being the "only tightass" in the bunch. But my $20 expected cost ended up over $100.

 

To this day that evening pisses me off. Rude as hell in my book.

 

I agree 100%. And when i order more than my fair share and the offer to split the bill comes up, i always offer to pay for what i ordered. As you stated, it seems rude as hell not to.

 

I will add, the couple times i have objected, i have felt like a complete tool - which is probably why i'm sensitive to it when i'm on the other end.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Jackass

[detlef]

Please dude - just 'cause you own a restaurant, don't try to tell people how they should feel about their restaurant-experiences. Pretty f'ing arrogant if ya ask me.

Maybe you should just stick to hoping guys get injured.

 

Very simply, if you don't want to hear about the industry, don't go onto a message board and pretend you know about it. I really don't care whether you want to spend your hard earned money going out only to diminish your own experience freaking out about whether the same person who took your order brought you your food. My suggestion, however, is that your money might be better spent if you actually try to enjoy yourself up to the point where something actually significant happens that stands in the way.

 

That's really it.

 

I just took exception to two guys who were quite opinionated about how my industry should work but, at the same time, didn't care to know how or why any of this goes on. You can have it both ways, I suppose, but not without getting called on it.

 

ETA. Seriously, is it arrogant to "love it" if people would just do as CEO and Tim seem to claim they want the deal to go down? That customers would just come in, order their food, and involve themselves with their own party rather than worry about what else it going on?

Edited April 14, 2009 by detlef

[Azazello1313]

Tim just illustrated this exact point. He doesn't want to know what's going on. He doesn't want to hear what's going on. He just want's his sammich. Oh, but he also is "certain" that he knows why restaurants have food runners and uses this faulty logic about an industry that he makes abundantly clear he knows nothing about as his reason for why he hates the practice.

 

I understand your point, but I also understand the other side. all most of us really want is to be seated, get a drink, have that drink kept full, and then order, eat a well-prepared meal, and leave in a timely manner. it is only when that process takes place in a less-than-satisfactory manner that we start paying attention to what's going wrong and speculating about why.

[detlef]

I understand your point, but I also understand the other side. all most of us really want is to be seated, get a drink, have that drink kept full, and then order, eat a well-prepared meal, and leave in a timely manner. it is only when that process takes place in a less-than-satisfactory manner that we start paying attention to what's going wrong and speculating about why.

I understand that as well and I'm also as guilty as the next for speculating why this or that is happening and, like others am wrong easily as often as I am right if it's a subject I know nothing about.

 

I bet the phrase, "It can't be that hard," is incorrectly uttered more often than any other because, well, it can be, regardless of the topic.

 

Perhaps my vitriol shouldn't have been directed at Tim because it's not as if he came back and insisted that his theory on why runners exist was right after I pointed out that it simply is not. Perhaps my issue should be with CEO (and the ambulance chaser for seconding his comment) who, in the middle of a thread riddled with comments where people who didn't understand the whole picture were making rather bold assumptions saying he really didn't want to hear about it.

 

I should also add that, as a restaurant professional, it is my ultimate goal that all you should have to worry about almost nothing throughout the evening other than ponder your choices and at no point have I ever implied that customers should tolerate bad service or bad food. Any insight that I try to shed on the inner workings should ever be mistaken as excuses for why things go wrong. Quite simply, things should not go wrong. Steaks should not be poorly cooked, people should not be abandoned by their server if they need something.

 

This latest bit got sidetracked when something that many good restaurants do to ensure good and prompt service was assumed to be one of the elements of poor service. That's really all. I don't doubt for a second that many of you have had crappy service tons of times. I have myself.

 

Though, I'd like to add that I don't find it remotely surprising that most of these stories involve chains. Billay made the point very well. If you want good food and service, stay away from chains. Generally speaking, of course.

Edited April 14, 2009 by detlef

[Cunning Runt]

Maybe you should just stick to hoping guys get injured.

 

Very simply, if you don't want to hear about the industry, don't go onto a message board and pretend you know about it. I really don't care whether you want to spend your hard earned money going out only to diminish your own experience freaking out about whether the same person who took your order brought you your food. My suggestion, however, is that your money might be better spent if you actually try to enjoy yourself up to the point where something actually significant happens that stands in the way.

 

That's really it.

 

I just took exception to two guys who were quite opinionated about how my industry should work but, at the same time, didn't care to know how or why any of this goes on. You can have it both ways, I suppose, but not without getting called on it.

 

ETA. Seriously, is it arrogant to "love it" if people would just do as CEO and Tim seem to claim they want the deal to go down? That customers would just come in, order their food, and involve themselves with their own party rather than worry about what else it going on?

 

Two things dumbass:

 

1. I never professed to know anything about it other than to tell you that you come across very arrogant telling people "dumber" than you how to act/feel about something that you have the ultimate wisdom on. You're an idiot if you don't see that.

 

2. Get over the ijnury thing already. Am I supposed to be ashamed or something?

 

My God - you're so dense sometimes.

[detlef]

Two things dumbass:

 

1. I never professed to know anything about it other than to tell you that you come across very arrogant telling people "dumber" than you how to act/feel about something that you have the ultimate wisdom on. You're an idiot if you don't see that.

 

2. Get over the ijnury thing already. Am I supposed to be ashamed or something?

 

My God - you're so dense sometimes.

Yes, you should be ashamed.

[Cunning Runt]

Yes, you should be ashamed.

 

Oh.... okay.

[cre8tiff]

Oh.... okay.

 

In huddle world, you haven't even reached half-life on the injury thing. Sorry dude. Such is life amongst the inmates.

[H8tank]

Everyone else though was going to town - appetizers, multiple bottles of expensive wine, etc... At the end, I was expecting my check for like $20 total, but no - one of the more outgoing folks said - "it's $x amount, let's just divide it up evenly". No one else objected since they were all probably pretty close in amount spent. And I didn't object 'since I didn't want to be the "tool" and nor embarrass my wife and her friend by being the "only tightass" in the bunch. But my $20 expected cost ended up over $100.

 

Wow, you're a pushover.

 

No way I let anyone push me around like that. I bet you have small hands.

[whomper]

Wow, you're a pushover.

 

No way I let anyone push me around like that. I bet you have small hands.

 

 

In vegas you and I drank together for an hour. You had 38 beers. I had 5. We split it down the middle. Then we cuddled

[H8tank]

In vegas you and I drank together for an hour. You had 38 beers. I had 5. We split it down the middle. Then we cuddled

 

At least we know who has big hands.

[bpwallace49]

Having been in the industry well . . . forever . . I have worked every aspect from kitchen to server to bartender to GM to private club Chief Operating Officer.

 

1.) Most servers make less than minimum wage. Why? Because it is EXPECTED that tips make up the difference. Unless you work in a major metropolitan city and work at a high end establishment (or even a chain like Ruth Chris or Morton's) you are struggling to get by. Tipping less than 15% is just screwing the person that is working their butt off in a dead-end job at a chain restaurant. Dont be a jackass, tip at least 15%.

 

2.) If your food is prepared incorrectly, either the kitchen cooked it incorrectly (which is NOT the servers fault) or it was entered incorrectly by the server (which you will probably never know if it is the case or not). Either way, DONT take it out on the server, just dont go there again. Trust me, they wont miss your $40 checks once a month.

 

3.) Food runners are a way of life and how exceptional restaurants function. While some chains try to emulate the system, they fail to train their food runners properly and they are unable to get you another drink or extra bleu cheese for your buffalo wings. regardless, it is good system, just poorly executed too often. "Dont hate the player, hate the game"

 

4.) The tip should NEVER include what tax is. Ever.

 

5.) Auto-gratuity happens because the server that is taking care of your huge party usually cannot take any other tables during that time. because they need to earn a living too, it helps to take the enormous cheapskate factor out of the equation, and they can earn a living that night. I make it a point to let my servers know I am in the industry BEFORE the order is taken so they know what the score is. If they "choose" to put on an automatic gratuity, then they run the risk of getting only that. if they dont, and let their service speak for itself, they almost ALWAYS get at least 30% from me. Also, most computer systems require a manager to add that "automatic" gratuity. If they didnt think they was a possibility of getting stiffed, they might not have that added.

 

6.) Food service is not an exact science, and you will NEVER get 100% satisfaction. Especially when cooking meat to order, you will always have inconsistencies. It is how a restaurant REACTS to a mistake that separates a bad experience from a good one. I have had horrible experiences at restaurants and ALWAYS let the manager know because how else will they get better? maybe the server sucks, maybe they have a crappy cook working the broiler, but if they dont its wrong, they cant fix it.

 

7.) Avoid most chain restaurants. With the exception of Mortons, Ruth Chris, Legal Seafood and some others, their check averages are low, which means they do not get the best quality of servers. (They can make more $$ for the same job somewhere else). As someone else said, "dont go to Applebee's and expect Ruth Chris Steakhouse food and service". Come to think of it . . . dont go to Applebee's at all. That place SUCKS.

 

8.) On the subject of tipping again, most servers dont egt to pocket that whole 6 bucks you may have left. They may also have to pay a portion (or "tip out") other positions such as food runners, bussers, bartenders (on alcohol sales) and maybe even a hostess. So that amount you leave gets spread around to others that did NOT screw up your steak.

 

9.) Kids at your table mean

-They usually make a mess

-The table will be more demanding

-The server will not be able to take other tables at the same time

-Your check average will be lower because you probably wont screw around with extra courses and alcohol.

-So you should tip AT LEAST 20% if your table fits into any of these categories. I

I tip extra for the clean up and if they are very timely on getting my family (with 3 young kids) out ASAP. But that is just me.

 

NONE OF THIS EXCUSES BAD SERVICE!!!

 

But keep in mind that your server may have other things going on besides your daughters refill of a kiddie cocktail with extra cherries. If the server stinks like they just had a cigarette, then it is the SERVERS fault and feel free to "punish" them accordingly. If a food runner brings your food, the kitchen prepared it wrong, or the bartender light-poured your gin and tonic, dont punish the person that is doing their best to make sure you have a good time.

 

I dont know why servers have a portion of their wages generated from tips. I ahve worked at private clubs that were "cash free" and the servers made more per hour plus tips. It is supposed to guarantee consistent service all the way around and avoid preferential treatment of certain tables. teh issues are someone always wants to give more and mess up the system.

 

If I won the lottery, I would be tipping over $100.00 on every time I ate out. Because for all the crap service people have to take, they need the money more than I do . . . .

 

Soapbox rant over . . . . nufced

Edited April 14, 2009 by bpwallace49

[detlef]

Wow, you're a pushover.

 

No way I let anyone push me around like that. I bet you have small hands.

I have to agree here. There's no way that nobody else at the table noticed that you two weren't going off along with everyone else but it shouldn't be up to them to speak up for you. A simple, "we just had two apps. How 'bout we kick in (a number that very safely covers your dishes, drinks, and tips plus enough that nobody could accuse you of short-arming) and you all split the rest." You'll still pay more than your fair share but won't get raped.

 

Anyone who has a problem with that is an ass.