Tipping Ettiquette

[H8tank]

Don't order steaks from apple bees and expect a Ruths Cris experience.

[wiegie]

Don't order steaks from apple bees.

I agree

[Bier Meister]

I agree

 

 

wiegie prefers the riblettes

[BeeR]

1. I always thought that 15% was the "norm" and anything above that was considered good(I usually tip 20%)

It is. But a lot of dorks who are or were "in the biz" are trying to hype 20% as standard. IMO they can have fun and go f- themselves; I tip 15% unless things are unusually good (I will round up sometimes for simplicities' sake and/or if it's a small total bill).

 

2. As far as I know the tip should NEVER be calculated with the tax included.

This is common with large groups (which isn't the case here) which I can live with, but should not be f-ing 20% - in fact that just happened to me today and the service was average and food half-arse. I won't be going back.

[BeeR]

I'm not looking for a discussion on the "correct" percent to tip, but perspective on how I should have handled the "Additional Tip" line.

I voted yes on the negative number; in fact great idea where were you earlier today

[AtomicCEO]

Don't order steaks from apple bees and expect a Ruths Cris experience.

I agree

wiegie prefers the riblettes

 

I went to Applebees the other day and said "Maybe I'll get a steak."

My wife said "You hate the steaks here."

"I do?"

"Yes... you usually get one, and then you complain that it's terrible."

"Oh."

 

I'm lucky to have her.

[wiegie]

wiegie prefers the riblettes

to an applebees steak? yes

[Retrograde assault]

I never have liked Applebees. Only formula I have for tips is, they give me the type of service I expect, they get tipped real good and if they don't, they don't. Basically, get the order right, be there when we need drinks and if the food isn't up to standards, get if fixed for us. And be friendly but don't hover over us. Do that and we will like each other.

[muck]

This has been an interesting thread to read...

 

Some stuff I frankly (and ashamedly) never really thought about ... like tipping more if my kids have a tougher night (which, admittedly, is VERY rare); frankly, I probably should pay more attention to what the wait staff is doing and let that reflect the tip more, but (in self-defense), we usually only go out as a family on Friday nights to family-oriented restaurants (where they expect people to show up with kids) and I'm usually wiped out from a very long week and am thankful to not have to think about anything for once (in fact, my wife will usually just order something for me so I don't have to think about it).

 

So, even though I really didn't want this to get into a "what % do you tip thread", but to set the record straight, I don't have any sort of fixed % ... what I do is that I will look at a bill (on a pre-tax basis generally) and figure out what 15% is, then will round to the nearest whole dollar on the entire bill on an after tax basis regardless of service ... unless it is really good or really bad ... and this usually results in a tip of 12-17% or so. Again, I should probably pay more attention to what is going on with the wait staff to tip up or down from the 15% level, but I don't. As a result of my inattention, I'm pretty sure I undertip as often as I over tip.

 

So, if I were left to my own devices at the restaurant that drove this thread initially, if the service would have been better and I could have picked a typical tip, it would have looked like this:

 

$40.00 for food / drink

 

$3.17 for taxes

 

$5.83 for tip

 

$49.00 total

 

I do the math in my head, so I'm not one of those calculator-watch geeks that figures out their exact tip. Oh, and I've tipped 25-30% before, intentionally, when I thought the wait staff did a great job (and paid attention to recognize it).

 

Oh, and I'm more likely to pick up the tab for everyone at my table than I am to plunk down a 20-25% tip. That, and if my meal goes particularly long, I'll estimate how many parties the staff didn't get to sit in their area for the extra time I was there and then increase the tip to reflect that by them continuing to serve me, they missed out on another tip.

 

I'm hardly a cheap bastard. IMO.

[The Holy Roller]

wiegie prefers the riblettes

 

Don't go there!

 

If God did a really good job that week I will leave more than my usual 10% in the offering plate. Just sayin'.

[Cunning Runt]

pretty right on. det really covered everything on this topic. the only thing i'd change is that i don't think patrons should pay, go away unhappy and never come back. i think you need to step away fromt he table and talk to the manager. i've appraoched it like this:

 

me: this is my first time visiting your restaurant. i am in the industry and in turn am a fairly generous tipper. as the manager i'd like you to know that today i am tipping 5%. i rarely have tipped that low. i think that you need to know that x,y, and z occurred and while i usually like to give places a second chance, in this case i don't think i'll be returning.

 

 

or whatever... i think the establishment should know what they have done to lose your business. you don't have to make a hugh stink about it, but giving info is not a bad thing...plus it give the manager an opportunity to rectify the situation on some level. i completey agree with det in that check total should not dictate service (at least on the low side). in better restaurants everyone "should" be vip. yeah.... if you come in and make it obvious that you are spendign a lot of money...sure you should get better service, but there is a certain standard that all should get.

 

Why would you fee compelled to go out of your way to tell someone why you're not coming back. Seems like a complete waste of time to do that.

 

Unless you're expecting something in return, why bother.

[whomper]

I usually tip 20% on whatever the final number is. The math is easy and the people are happy and if it is a place we regularly go to I think the server you tipped remembers and treats you accordingly.

[billay]

Good read. It's funny the passion that can be aroused over an auto-grat, even when it's just a total of a few bucks. I do agree though, that instiutionalized, improper auto-grating is about as low as it gets on the restaurant "scumbag" scale. Either the manager is trying to sneak an extra few bucks to their staff without the customer noticing, or their are simply too stupid to notice their mistake. From the way you described it, Muck, it sounds like the computer atumatiucally calculated the tip on the check. If that's thecase, then the manager probably had to tell it to do so. Perfect reason to not go back. And I think you'd be perfectly jusatified to point it out to the manager. I doubt he even knows it.

 

It's also important to remember that the staff does not cook your food. They can be at fault if the food comes late (if they forgot to ring it in) but on the whold, the staff is helpless when it comes to getting the food to the table. Only in the nicest of restaurants does the staff have input in the kitchen about when the food should be out and can actually influence the kitchen in terms of what gets put in the wiondow first. Sometimes, when you meal has gone perfectly at a nice restaurant, the server has had to bend over backwards to make sure that it was so. A good seerver is akin to a good sports official. When the gavme is officiated well, you never even noticed the ref was there.

 

If its a restaurant that you frequent often, then I'd say tipping on the low end is certainly a bad move. If you tip 10-12% regularly, even when things go well, you are making a reputation for yourself among the staff. They know who you are. They know, when you set foot in the door that they are not going to get any money off of you (despite getting run around in circles by your kids). They will go through the motions on your table, but that's it. All in all, you will have a far less enjoyable experience.

 

I always reccomend over tipping at a restaurant which you visit frequently. You can reap benefits you would have never thought of. A good "tipping reputation" is worth it's weight in gold at your watering hole. Get a better table, quicker service, more plesant chit-chat. Random help that you would never have thought that a server would do for you. When a server knows that good service will land them 20-30%, they will go the extra mile for you.

 

It's also a good reason to go to nice restaurans, as opposed to chains. Even though you spend more money, at the high end, the return you get for your money in the experience can be that much higher. There are several reasons behind this. First, small, privately owend, upscale restaurants generally have a chef-owner. You cannot overestimate the impact this has. Not only is the owner playing an active role in his businesses success, but he's there constantly, interacting with every evel of the staff. Restaurant work is not easy, particularly as an owner. The profit margin is tiny, and the hours are long. If someone opens a restaurant, it's because they love the work. The other employees see this. They see an owner who cares and who works hard. It gives them pride in their job.

 

Servers also have a nose for the good tipping gigs, which are invariably the nicest restaurants in town. Servers who want to work at a restaurat with a good reputation, probably want to develop as a server as well. This means learning about food and wine. A knowledgeable server can bring alot to your meal, particularly if you like to polay around in the kitchen yourself.

 

Upscale restaurants also tend to retain more of their staff. You's see the same waiters, busboys, and hostesses there over a number of years. Tip a hostess at a restaurant like this $10-$20 bucks once a year, and always get a good table, and never wait. Hostesses at a restaurant are like thge quarterback of the football team. They have a lot of autonomy about who gets in the restaurant and when. If you are in good with the hostess, he/she will find a way to get you into the restaurant. Chain restaurants don;t keep the same managers over the course of a year, let alone their support staff.

[Bier Meister]

Why would you fee compelled to go out of your way to tell someone why you're not coming back. Seems like a complete waste of time to do that.

 

Unless you're expecting something in return, why bother.

 

 

it's not the "expecting something in return." for me it's letting them know where they've gone wrong. if they care about their restuarant, they would want to know and would want to change it. personally i want to know what i can do to retain customers. if someone walks away without saying anything about a complaint, there is a very slim opportunity to correct it.

[policyvote]

This has been fascinating to read. It's odd, because I'm only 27, but it seems like it's just been in my lifetime that tips went from 10% low end, 15% high end, to 15% being a "minimum", to anything below 20% being on the short side someone. That all having been said, I like to tip big, and 20% is definitely my baseline, not afraid to tip 25% or even 30% if it was outstanding service and/or my kids were obnoxious. It's a pain in the wallet, but I've worked for tips and that's a much bigger pain in the wallet,

 

One of the very few times I shorted a guy was at Texas Roadhouse, which is a very nice-for-a-chain-family-steakhouse chain family steakhouse. I took my wife, (then) two small kids, and my mother out on my birthday, because I love to eat a big steak on my birthday. Initial order-to-entree service is always quite slow there, but they have infinite in-shell peanuts and tasty rolls, so I usually don't mind the wait. Our server was very outgoing, funny, engaged, etc., but he was slow getting to us (we sat for almost ten minutes with no service whatsoever), and was slow getting our drinks. Our order came even later than usual (about 40 minutes after ordering), and it was brought by someone other than our server (FWIW, I DETEST this practice). The server showed up within seconds of the food being brought to see if everything was okay, but none of us had so much as picked up a fork yet. No trace of the server for another 40 minutes, during which time we discovered two of the orders were wrong and all our drinks (beer and pop, not just water) ran dry. When he finally came 'round, we'd all finished eating, but did tell him of the mistakes. He goes, "Oh, man, nobody told me!" Yeah dude, you weren't here. IIRC the final bill (I do tip post-tax) was a hair under $61, and I gave him $70 and asked for two back. Yeah, that was low, but for once I was trying to send a message.

 

While walking past us as we got ready to leave, dude slammed the change on table and muttered "there you go" without even looking at me. I felt bad to stiff him, but there's only so much bad service I can accept before I stop being willing to put over a fifth of the cost of the meal in my server's pocket.

 

Peace

policy

Edited April 13, 2009 by policyvote

[keggerz]

This has been fascinating to read. It's odd, because I'm only 27, but it seems like it's just been in my lifetime that tips went from 10% low end, 15% high end, to 15% being a "minimum", to anything below 20% being on the short side someone. That all having been said, I like to tip big, and 20% is definitely my baseline, not afraid to tip 25% or even 30% if it was outstanding service and/or my kids were obnoxious. It's a pain in the wallet, but I've worked for tips and that's a much bigger pain in the wallet, lol:

 

One of the very few times I shorted a guy was at Texas Roadhouse, which is a very nice-for-a-chain-family-steakhouse chain family steakhouse. I took my wife, (then) two small kids, and my mother out on my birthday, because I love to eat a big steak on my birthday. Initial order-to-entree service is always quite slow there, but they have infinite in-shell peanuts and tasty rolls, so I usually don't mind the wait. Our server was very outgoing, funny, engaged, etc., but he was slow getting to us (we sat for almost ten minutes with no service whatsoever), and was slow getting our drinks. Our order came even later than usual (about 40 minutes after ordering), and it was brought by someone other than our server (FWIW, I DETEST this practice). The server showed up within seconds of the food being brought to see if everything was okay, but none of us had so much as picked up a fork yet. No trace of the server for another 40 minutes, during which time we discovered two of the orders were wrong and all our drinks (beer and pop, not just water) ran dry. When he finally came 'round, we'd all finished eating, but did tell him of the mistakes. He goes, "Oh, man, nobody told me!" Yeah dude, you weren't here. IIRC the final bill (I do tip post-tax) was a hair under $61, and I gave him $70 and asked for two back. Yeah, that was low, but for once I was trying to send a message.

 

While walking past us as we got ready to leave, dude slammed the change on table and muttered "there you go" without even looking at me. I felt bad to stiff him, but there's only so much bad service I can accept before I stop being willing to put over a fifth of the cost of the meal in my server's pocket.

 

Peace

policy

Edited April 13, 2009 by keggerz

[Big John]

cockroach

[TimC]

(FWIW, I DETEST this practice)

 

 

While walking past us as we got ready to leave, dude slammed the change on table and muttered "there you go" without even looking at me. I felt bad to stiff him, but there's only so much bad service I can accept before I stop being willing to put over a fifth of the cost of the meal in my server's pocket.

 

Peace

policy

 

Two points from your post I agree with 100%. I hate the waiter not bringing the food anymore. I find it very unprofessional for some reason.

 

And speaking of unprofessional, I tire of the wait staff ever showing emotions. I don't want to hear about their problems and I don't want them getting pissed if I don't treat them right because they aren't treating me right. I would fire any waiter than slammed the change on the table like that. A few weekd ago, I asked for 2 dollars back once because I needed toll money because I'd forgotten my Smart Tag and didn't have any other cash (since I usually use debit cards, but I'd misplaced it over the weekend). The tip was still decent but asking for the 2 dollars back irritated the waiter and I got the same crap. Of course, I haven't been back since because I didn't feel the need to tell the waiter that I needed toll money was all. If I managed a restaurant, I'd demand every waiter acted the same if you got no tip or 50% tip.

[Perchoutofwater]

1. I never leave a tip less than $5, unless I'm trying to make a point.

2. If it is just adults, I usually start at 15% as a baseline once the $5 threshold is broken, and will adjust up and down as service warrants.

3. If well behaved children are with me, and they don't make a mess, I start at 20% and adjust based on service.

4. If we have my SIL's kids with us 2,3, 8 year olds then I start at 25% and adjust from there. I do this because the kids are messy, so I look at it as sort of a clean up fee. Plus the 2 and 3 year old usually share a plate.

5. I hate automatic gratuity. If I get a bill with auto grat on it, that is all the waiter is going to get. Most places allow the waiters to waive auto grat, and I personally take auto grat as an insult. If I was going to tip 25% and get auto grat for 15%, that 15% is all the waiter is going to see.

 

I waited tables some in college, and can usually tell pretty easily what is the waiters fault and what is the kitchen's fault. I also tend to be a lot more lenient when I can see that my waiter got double or triple sat. However if service is bad, and it is obvious that it is the servers fault, I have no qualms about stiffing them. I've been known to leave 2 cents on the table for a tip when paying cash, just so the waiter would know I didn't forget. Most servers smoke, and nothing bothers me more than siting there with my glass empty while a server is taking a smoke break. Then they come back and bring your food that is cool, smelling like an ash tray. I've also been known for writing things on the tip line of credit care receipts like Tip: Stop Smoking.

[detlef]

This has been an interesting thread to read...

 

Some stuff I frankly (and ashamedly) never really thought about ... like tipping more if my kids have a tougher night (which, admittedly, is VERY rare); frankly, I probably should pay more attention to what the wait staff is doing and let that reflect the tip more, but (in self-defense), we usually only go out as a family on Friday nights to family-oriented restaurants (where they expect people to show up with kids) and I'm usually wiped out from a very long week and am thankful to not have to think about anything for once (in fact, my wife will usually just order something for me so I don't have to think about it).

 

So, even though I really didn't want this to get into a "what % do you tip thread", but to set the record straight, I don't have any sort of fixed % ... what I do is that I will look at a bill (on a pre-tax basis generally) and figure out what 15% is, then will round to the nearest whole dollar on the entire bill on an after tax basis regardless of service ... unless it is really good or really bad ... and this usually results in a tip of 12-17% or so. Again, I should probably pay more attention to what is going on with the wait staff to tip up or down from the 15% level, but I don't. As a result of my inattention, I'm pretty sure I undertip as often as I over tip.

 

So, if I were left to my own devices at the restaurant that drove this thread initially, if the service would have been better and I could have picked a typical tip, it would have looked like this:

 

$40.00 for food / drink

 

$3.17 for taxes

 

$5.83 for tip

 

$49.00 total

 

I do the math in my head, so I'm not one of those calculator-watch geeks that figures out their exact tip. Oh, and I've tipped 25-30% before, intentionally, when I thought the wait staff did a great job (and paid attention to recognize it).

 

Oh, and I'm more likely to pick up the tab for everyone at my table than I am to plunk down a 20-25% tip. That, and if my meal goes particularly long, I'll estimate how many parties the staff didn't get to sit in their area for the extra time I was there and then increase the tip to reflect that by them continuing to serve me, they missed out on another tip.

 

I'm hardly a cheap bastard. IMO.

Muck, if I may.

 

I honestly don't think you should spend any more energy than you do evaluating the service and actively adjusting your tip accordingly, short of perhaps being aware when or if your kids make a huge mess or cause a hassle. Though it sounds like that's not very often. Eating out should not be work for you because you're not getting paid. Like anything else, you can either make it a chore or not. You can drive around looking for the cheapest deal on a stereo or you can just roll up to the local place an be done with it. Either way is fine. Seriously, the last thing I would ever suggest is that someone waste any time scrutinizing their service and calculating their tip accordingly. You should simply be enjoying the company of your party.

 

However, if you're not prepared to make a point of fairly scrutinizing the service, then perhaps you owe the industry the benefit of the doubt and just tip the acceptable norm rather than go below it as often as you imply you do. Think about everything else you buy and the lack of control you have over the price. If you buy a lawnmower, you don't get to take it home and decide what you think it's worth and then go back and ask for a few bucks off because it cost you $350 but, having used it, you think it's really only worth $325. You just make a mental note that maybe that brand underdelivers for the money and move on. Next time you're in the market for a lawnmower, you keep that in mind.

 

Hell, even within the experience of the meal itself, everything but the service is set in terms of price. If the steak costs $20 and is well prepared but, when you think about it you realize that another place sells you an equivalent plate for $18, are you going to ask for a few bucks off? No. Again, you need to decide if something else made the experience worth the extra scratch or go get your steaks at the other place from now on. Service should be seen in a similar light.

 

I have no idea why the industry evolved to a situation where servers basically rely on customers for their wage, but I can assure you that restaurants don't make enough that they'd be able to afford to pay them a decent wage without raising prices. So, in short, the assumed cost of service at a restaurant is 15% and customers should, in good faith, be prepared to pay that unless they truly feel their server really failed them. As billay points out, many of the reasons people give for stiffing the server is not their fault, should be taken up with the manager, and could possibly result in some comped food. Either that or it's quite simply because the restaurant in question sucks and is basically incapable of doing any better. In that case, of course, you're just screwed, not unlike any number of times involving other goods and services.

 

So, it may not be your opinion that, as someone who admittedly tips below 15% as often as he doesn't, you're not a cheap bastard. But, at very least, you're shirking an unwritten obligation to compensate your server in a manner that pretty much every reasonable person has agreed upon.

[detlef]

Two points from your post I agree with 100%. I hate the waiter not bringing the food anymore. I find it very unprofessional for some reason.

 

And speaking of unprofessional, I tire of the wait staff ever showing emotions. I don't want to hear about their problems and I don't want them getting pissed if I don't treat them right because they aren't treating me right. I would fire any waiter than slammed the change on the table like that. A few weekd ago, I asked for 2 dollars back once because I needed toll money because I'd forgotten my Smart Tag and didn't have any other cash (since I usually use debit cards, but I'd misplaced it over the weekend). The tip was still decent but asking for the 2 dollars back irritated the waiter and I got the same crap. Of course, I haven't been back since because I didn't feel the need to tell the waiter that I needed toll money was all. If I managed a restaurant, I'd demand every waiter acted the same if you got no tip or 50% tip.

You guys need to get over the deal with someone else bringing the food. In many cases, it's just simply the best way to provide prompt service and allows the waiters to remain on the floor, in their section, and attending to their customers. Mind you, the restaurant should have systems in place to insure that the food runners know who's getting what dish (rather than saying, "who had the crabcakes?") and the server should make a point of coming by within minutes of every having had a bite to check on things.

 

ETA: I should also add that some of the most prestigious dining rooms in the country operate in this manner.

 

However, it is rather arbitrary to get pissed off that the person who took your order doesn't bring your food.

 

As for waiters being pissy about tips. I'll fire a guy for that and have. Some hyper entitled little prick actually followed a table out and complained about a tip (that was barely below 15% btw). I followed him out, heard this, fired him on the spot, and made a point of apologizing to the customer.

Edited April 13, 2009 by detlef

[SheikYerbuti]

Some hyper entitled little prick actually followed a table out and complained about a tip (that was barely below 15% btw). I followed him out, heard this, fired him on the spot, and made a point of apologizing to the customer.

 

Holy damn that's ballsy.

[policyvote]

You guys need to get over the deal with someone else bringing the food. In many cases, it's just simply the best way to provide prompt service and allows the waiters to remain on the floor, in their section, and attending to their customers. Mind you, the restaurant should have systems in place to insure that the food runners know who's getting what dish (rather than saying, "who had the crabcakes?") and the server should make a point of coming by within minutes of every having had a bite to check on things.

 

However, it is rather arbitrary to get pissed off that the person who took your order doesn't bring your food.

 

Ah, but see, that's exactly why I don't like it. Food Bringer Guy has no relationship to the table, rarely knows who ordered what entree, let alone remember what sides went with what, special orders, etc.--and then it seems like it's up in the air as to whether the server knows if the food's been served. The server has to swing by and check if all the items are as they ordered, how everything tastes, etc. Basically, for me, outside of the theoretical speed advantage, all having Food Bringer Guy bring the food does is introduce a wealth of possibilites for stuff to go wrong . . . I'd rather wait a few extra minutes and have the person who's "taking care of me tonight" get the chance to actually take care of me.

 

Peace

policy

[Cunning Runt]

it's not the "expecting something in return." for me it's letting them know where they've gone wrong. if they care about their restuarant, they would want to know and would want to change it. personally i want to know what i can do to retain customers. if someone walks away without saying anything about a complaint, there is a very slim opportunity to correct it.

 

Well, I get why you personally would want to know - you're in the "biz".

 

But if you're a paying customer with no ties whatsoever to either the restaurant, or the "biz", and you have no interest in going back to the place, why would anyone make a special effort to tell someone unless they expected something back? Why wouldn't you just walk out and not return?

[TimC]

Det, as Policy said, I can't count how many times the guy bringing the food comes and we ask for something like a drink refill or something is wrong with the order and he says, "Let me get your waiter" (which takes several minutes at the least) and all of a sudden I have another person in the layer of issues. I only need one person in my life when I go to dinner, don't I?

 

This is obviously a ploy by the restaurant manager to cut staff. You could have 4 waiters to deal with a restaurant. But no, in order to save the $3.00 an hour (if that), the manager decides to have 2 waiters and someone to bring food resulting in chaos.