The country is broke, state and local govts broke

[gbpfan1231]

Where did these #'s come from?

Department of Public Instruction

[tazinib1]

What's a failed Soda? Pepsi One? Never been called that before.

 

Coke ZERO?

[Big John]

Coke ZERO?

Crystal Pepsi

[Yukon Cornelius]

Google QEO. read and learn ....

 

The Wisconsin Legislature enacted the Qualified Economic Offer (QEO) law in 1993. The QEO law - and the revenue controls that restrict the amount of money school districts can raise - were enacted in order to limit school spending. Those measures were combined with a commitment that the state would provide two-thirds of the costs of schools on a statewide average (this figure varies by community).

 

Under the QEO, school boards have the option of unilaterally limiting pay and benefits for K-12 teachers so long as the combined increase is 3.8%. The law allows school districts to avoid true collective bargaining regarding compensation and important school quality issues.

 

As rising health insurance costs have eaten up most of the 3.8% total compensation target, teacher salaries in Wisconsin have stagnated and even declined. As a result, Wisconsin teacher salaries fell 6.8% from 1997-98 to 2007-08, when adjusted for inflation. For 2007-08, Wisconsin's teacher salaries ranked 21th in the nation at $49,051, down from 20th the year before, and below the national average of $52,308.

[Yukon Cornelius]

I am not saying in relation to me or anyone else - I would find it hard to believe that anyone would not agree that those salaries show they are paid very well - also keep in mind for not a full year - now don't twist my words to say they don't work hard or that they don't put in extra time - I am sure most do.

 

Can you ever just read a post and take it for what it is? I posted some salary information and stated that it showed they are well paid (in my opinion). I was not ranting and not trying to compare it to myself.

 

You are correct that they have a system that benefits them later on and they have incredible job security - but those things are a big reason why WI is in trouble.

its not about pay momo

[bpwallace49]

Google QEO. read and learn ....

 

The Wisconsin Legislature enacted the Qualified Economic Offer (QEO) law in 1993. The QEO law - and the revenue controls that restrict the amount of money school districts can raise - were enacted in order to limit school spending. Those measures were combined with a commitment that the state would provide two-thirds of the costs of schools on a statewide average (this figure varies by community).

 

Under the QEO, school boards have the option of unilaterally limiting pay and benefits for K-12 teachers so long as the combined increase is 3.8%. The law allows school districts to avoid true collective bargaining regarding compensation and important school quality issues.

 

As rising health insurance costs have eaten up most of the 3.8% total compensation target, teacher salaries in Wisconsin have stagnated and even declined. As a result, Wisconsin teacher salaries fell 6.8% from 1997-98 to 2007-08, when adjusted for inflation. For 2007-08, Wisconsin's teacher salaries ranked 21th in the nation at $49,051, down from 20th the year before, and below the national average of $52,308.

 

That is some GREAT info right there.

[gbpfan1231]

its not about pay momo

First you say it is not about pay but the post by you above your last post is about pay.

 

It is about pay but you are right that it is not totally about pay. It is also about limiting the power of the unions. Maybe it is a power grab but Walker keeps saying that he IS going to seriously cut back what the state gives local governments in state aid. How are the local governments supposed to balance the budgets if they are losing this state aid? It is difficult to negotiate with the unions because a lot of the cases the people negotiating are on the same side.

 

This will give the local govts more ways to figure out how to balance the local budgets. You still may have areas like Waupon and Gillet who have already went ahead and passed things to totally contradict what Walker is doing. Gillett already passed wage increases for the employees to cover the cost of the pension and insurance adder. So now if Gillett loses state aid what are they going to do? They will now need to layoff or increase taxes to cover the loss in state aid PLUS the increase in wages.

 

I agree that Walker is busting the unions but in my opinion that will ultimately save money and that is what Wisconsin needs right now.

[Clubfoothead]

Wisconsinson should be proud of itself. It's not easy to top Arizona in Showtime Rotisserie factor.

 

Just like gb says, this is nothing more than the using the economy as an excue to bust the unions. What do we need unions for anyways? Well now that the right has decided to abort public education, I have a pretty good idea why we need unions. You people on the right out to be ashamed of yourselves. You aren't but you should be.

[gbpfan1231]

Wisconsinson should be proud of itself. It's not easy to top Arizona in Showtime Rotisserie factor.

 

Just like gb says, this is nothing more than the using the economy as an excue to bust the unions. What do we need unions for anyways? Well now that the right has decided to abort public education, I have a pretty good idea why we need unions. You people on the right out to be ashamed of yourselves. You aren't but you should be.

The teachers calling in sick causing schools to be shut and the doctors providing fake paperwork to falsify that these teachers were sick and the fact that the dems left the state ILLEGALLY are things that I would be proud of.

 

Lets see - Signs calling Walker Hitler - people sleeping in the capitol building creating a mess (people are saying there is a stench when you walk in) - getting in peoples faces and screaming at them (one report mentioned a woman with small children actually slapping another women) - Man I would be proud to be one these people.

 

There is a chance to lower the interest rate on the debt - supposedly yesterday was the deadline but now it seems to be pushed out until Tuesday - doing this requires a vote - if it is not done WI will lose the opportunity to save $165 MILLION - if this does not happen it will lead to more layoffs - now we are talking about people losing jobs. If this happens man sure will make me proud.

 

Bottom line is WI is 3.6 million in the hole - something NEEDS to be done - we are already taxed like crazy in this state - it is time to reduce spending and what Walker is doing is trying to avoid mass layoffs. It sucks that we are in this position.

[WaterMan]

It's nice to see a Northern state try to dumb their kids down to our level here in South Carolina. That should equal the playing field for employment inside America.

[rocknrobn26]

Department of Public Instruction

 

I guess I should have asked:

What is included in the fringe package?

And/or how they came up w/ ~50% of salary?

[tosberg34]

The teachers calling in sick causing schools to be shut and the doctors providing fake paperwork to falsify that these teachers were sick and the fact that the dems left the state ILLEGALLY are things that I would be proud of.

 

Lets see - Signs calling Walker Hitler - people sleeping in the capitol building creating a mess (people are saying there is a stench when you walk in) - getting in peoples faces and screaming at them (one report mentioned a woman with small children actually slapping another women) - Man I would be proud to be one these people.

 

There is a chance to lower the interest rate on the debt - supposedly yesterday was the deadline but now it seems to be pushed out until Tuesday - doing this requires a vote - if it is not done WI will lose the opportunity to save $165 MILLION - if this does not happen it will lead to more layoffs - now we are talking about people losing jobs. If this happens man sure will make me proud.

Bottom line is WI is 3.6 million in the hole - something NEEDS to be done - we are already taxed like crazy in this state - it is time to reduce spending and what Walker is doing is trying to avoid mass layoffs. It sucks that we are in this position.

 

More like 3.6 BILLION.

[bushwacked]

Walker says his plan is needed to ease a deficit that is projected to hit $137 million by July and $3.6 billion by mid-2013.

The budget as it stands now is balanced, and Walker is under no legal obligation to make changes. But by mid-summer, the state could come up short on cash to pay its bills, largely because of a projected $169 million shortfall in its Medicaid program.

 

Walker argues the sweeping step is necessary to balance the budget not only over the next two years but into the future. School districts, cities, counties and other local governments need the flexibility, he says, to deal with more than $1 billion in state aid cuts Walker will announce Tuesday in his two-year budget plan.

 

That's certainly one way to tackle the problem, but it's not the only solution.

Walker has refused even to consider some of the other ways to raise the massive amount of money needed.

 

If Walker's concern was truly about the budget it seems as though (above and beyond implementing multiple cost savings measures and/or revenue generation) a pretty logical compromise would be to propose the cuts, but leave the ability for workers to keep their collective bargaining rights. It's blatantly obvious that balancing the budget isn't his priority. From the outside, it seems like he is either a hero for the anti-union crusade crowd or he is despised for playing partisan politics that mainstream Americans are sick of.

Edited February 26, 2011 by bushwacked

[gbpfan1231]

If Walker's concern was truly about the budget it seems as though (above and beyond implementing multiple cost savings measures and/or revenue generation) a pretty logical compromise would be to propose the cuts, but leave the ability for workers to keep their collective bargaining rights. It's blatantly obvious that balancing the budget isn't his priority. From the outside, it seems like he is either a hero for the anti-union crusade crowd or he is despised for playing partisan politics that mainstream Americans are sick of.

Why do these employees need bargaining rights? This is a serious question? Do federal employees have bargaining rights?

 

I don't get to bargain on anything but wage and that is really non-negoiable - especially the last few years.

 

Let me add... Before someone mentioned the conservatives are proud. Nobody should be proud of any of this. 3.6 BILLION is nothing to be proud of on either side.

Edited February 26, 2011 by gbpfan1231

[WaterMan]

 

[bushwacked]

Why do these employees need bargaining rights?

 

I don't know. But the more appropriate question is why do they need them taken away to balance the projected budget shortfall in 2013 (to which the correct answer is, they don't). Balancing the budget isn't Walker's priority, using that as ruse to make political hay is. He's a typical politician.

Edited February 26, 2011 by bushwacked

[gbpfan1231]

I don't know. But the more appropriate question is why do they need them taken away to balance the projected budget shortfall in 2013 (to which the correct answer is, they don't). Balancing the budget isn't Walker's priority, using that as ruse to make political hay is. He's a typical politician.

The reason stated for why they should be taken away is to give local govts the ability balance the local budgets with more options. He has stated that he will be reducing stated aid by a lot when he introduces his budget. I have heard that an example would be to let the local govt choose to use the existing benefit provider or shop it out to bids - from what I hear the mandated benefit provider is more expensive than what could be had if you shopped it out.

 

I am sure there are some truths to giving more options to local govts but there is also truth to what you say that he is a politician so there are always other motives at play.

[tosberg34]

I don't know. But the more appropriate question is why do they need them taken away to balance the projected budget shortfall in 2013 (to which the correct answer is, they don't). Balancing the budget isn't Walker's priority, using that as ruse to make political hay is. He's a typical politician.

 

Not sure if you've read all the posts in this thread, but if you go back and re-read mine and click on the links you'll see how removing collective bargaining can save money.

 

And to answer a previous question of yours, the public unions never should have been given collective bargaining privileges in the first place. So taking away something they never should have had is the right thing to do. Federal employees don't have bargaining privileges as well. Where has your outrage been for them? Life will go on without CBP (Collective Bargaining Privileges). It has for 88% of American workers. The left is really making it sound like it is the end of the world - but it's really not.

 

What I also like about this is that the Gubment no longer will take the union dues out of employees checks(why were we even doing this in the first place?) and employees can opt out of the union as well.

Edited February 26, 2011 by tosberg34

[gbpfan1231]

Not sure if you've read all the posts in this thread, but if you go back and re-read mine and click on the links you'll see how removing collective bargaining can save money.

 

And to answer a previous question of yours, the public unions never should have been given collective bargaining rights in the first place. So taking away something they never should have had is the right thing to do. Federal employees don't have bargaining rights as well. Where has your outrage been for them? Life will go on without CBR. It has for 88% of American workers. The left is really making it sound like it is the end of the world - but it's really not.

 

What I also like about this is that the Gubment no longer will take the union dues out of employees checks(why were we even doing this in the first place?) and employees can opt out of the union as well.

Out of sight out of mind.

 

Listening to conservative radio out of Milwaukee you would have heard a lot of calls from teachers in the union that were saying that they did not like the fact that they were forced to join the union and pay dues and have a portion of those dues spent to support the dems. That can be said from the other side also where the unions that supported Walker gave money that came from people that probably did not support Walker.

[The Holy Roller]

Dear Bushwacked:

I am here publicly proclaiming that I must agree with you in this thread.

There. I said it. And...it doesn't hurt at all!? Well I be danged!

[Ursa Majoris]

Out of sight out of mind.

 

Listening to conservative radio out of Milwaukee you would have heard a lot of calls from teachers in the union that were saying that they did not like the fact that they were forced to join the union and pay dues and have a portion of those dues spent to support the dems. That can be said from the other side also where the unions that supported Walker gave money that came from people that probably did not support Walker.

What about businesses that donate to political parties I don't agree with? How will I avoid them spending shareholder (my) money on that? And before you say "don't invest in them", how is one supposed to avoid it when one's holdings are in mutual funds?

[rocknrobn26]

I guess I should have asked:

What is included in the fringe package?

And/or how they came up w/ ~50% of salary?

 

Or post the link please.....

[bushwacked]

Dear Bushwacked:

I am here publicly proclaiming that I must agree with you in this thread.

There. I said it. And...it doesn't hurt at all!? Well I be danged!

 

Everyone will come to agree with me at one time or another.

 

I'm almost sure the end result by Walker will have the most unintended effect (whether the bill passes or not). While most Americans are leery of unions, the benefits of union members, and their present purpose........ the more publicity and agenda progress Walker gets, the more sympathy unions will ultimately get. Why do public workers need collective bargaining rights? I guess because there are people like Scott Walker who want to take them away while not being honest enough to admit the intended purpose is to stop unionization.

Edited February 27, 2011 by bushwacked

[MikesVikes]

I was talking with my daughter about this today. Didn't realize that Wisconsin state reps get lifetime benefits if they serve two years. Maybe they should look within to save some taxpayer dollars.

[Perchoutofwater]

What about businesses that donate to political parties I don't agree with? How will I avoid them spending shareholder (my) money on that? And before you say "don't invest in them", how is one supposed to avoid it when one's holdings are in mutual funds?

 

That is a cop out. You could changes funds pretty easily, if you wanted too. There is a big difference and you know it. It is much easier to change funds or investment vehicles all together, than you can professions.