The country is broke, state and local govts broke

[Yukon Cornelius]

You might be able to get out of the cesspool in the south, but you can't move the cesspool to the north.

[Azazello1313]

that's because they are to dumb to get a job in the north...

 

there aren't any jobs in the north

[TimC]

there aren't any non-union freeloading jobs in the north

 

Fixed

[gbpfan1231]

that's because they are to dumb to get a job in the north...

????

[MikesVikes]

????

 

At least when he does it, it's intentional.

[rocknrobn26]

RR, why don't you re-read the part you actually put in bold. When I say local, do you think I mean IL? Hmmm, reading comprehension?

 

I missed that word. Sorry...mea culpa, mea culpa, mea máxima culpa.

So if teaching is so easy w/ all the time off that anyone would hope to have, then do it! Become a teacher. 50% attrition in the first 5 years pretty much confirms to me the grass ain't as green as you make it to be.

What are you trying to prove w/ all the comparisons? That teachers have it made? I've worked in several different occupations and teaching was always the hardest.

In 30 years I took 2 summers off. The rest I worked, many summers just to keep creditors off my back.

I didn't enter this thread to argue. I simply wanted to state facts as a member of a profession that is very close to me and dispel any inaccuracies.

I admire all good teachers. I think I was one. I hope that all in it today get as much pleasure out of it that I did. God Bless them all!

Keep grinding your axe trying to get "Perch-Postles" (sorry whomp) to follow you. Enjoy the fairytale that you created, i.e. that you and most others have to work harder than teachers. Bottom line is, comparing different professions is ridiculous and proves nothing.

BTW...give your calculator a 3 month vacation. It earned it.

[Perchoutofwater]

I missed that word. Sorry...mea culpa, mea culpa, mea máxima culpa.

So if teaching is so easy w/ all the time off that anyone would hope to have, then do it! Become a teacher. 50% attrition in the first 5 years pretty much confirms to me the grass ain't as green as you make it to be.

What are you trying to prove w/ all the comparisons? That teachers have it made? I've worked in several different occupations and teaching was always the hardest.

In 30 years I took 2 summers off. The rest I worked, many summers just to keep creditors off my back.

I didn't enter this thread to argue. I simply wanted to state facts as a member of a profession that is very close to me and dispel any inaccuracies.

I admire all good teachers. I think I was one. I hope that all in it today get as much pleasure out of it that I did. God Bless them all!

Keep grinding your axe trying to get "Perch-Postles" (sorry whomp) to follow you. Enjoy the fairytale that you created, i.e. that you and most others have to work harder than teachers. Bottom line is, comparing different professions is ridiculous and proves nothing.

BTW...give your calculator a 3 month vacation. It earned it.

 

I've not said that they are over paid, as a matter of fact I said I did not think they were over paid. I was just pointing out to some that contrary to what many would have you believe they are not underpaid either. That was the only thing that I was trying to prove, and I think I did a pretty good job of proving it.

 

As, to going out and teaching, I've considered doing it many times, and have often said I will probably do it later in life. If the economy doesn't improve significantly in the near future, I may go out and do it a lot sooner than I originally planned to. I admire good teachers, and know quite a few. I haven't been ragging on the profession, just trying to clear up some misconceptions with regard to their compensation.

[bpwallace49]

I've not said that they are over paid, as a matter of fact I said I did not think they were over paid. I was just pointing out to some that contrary to what many would have you believe they are not underpaid either. That was the only thing that I was trying to prove, and I think I did a pretty good job of proving it.

 

As, to going out and teaching, I've considered doing it many times, and have often said I will probably do it later in life. If the economy doesn't improve significantly in the near future, I may go out and do it a lot sooner than I originally planned to. I admire good teachers, and know quite a few. I haven't been ragging on the profession, just trying to clear up some misconceptions with regard to their compensation.

 

Who said they were underpaid again?

[Brewer]

Can someone explain again why the ability of teachers to collectively bargain needs to be eliminated in order for the state to reduce their deficit?

[bushwacked]

Oooppss

[bpwallace49]

Can someone explain again why the ability of teachers to collectively bargain needs to be eliminated in order for the state to reduce their deficit?

 

Because Walker wants to eliminate lengthy negotiation barriers when he slashes the school system funding the next few years. It isnt just about the money this year (which the unions conceded) it is about cutting them back even more in the next few years.

 

That, and cutting off at the knees a traditional opponent of Republican candidates. It helps pave the way to less opposition when Republicans run for office in the future by gutting a source of support.

[Ursa Majoris]

Can someone explain again why the ability of teachers to collectively bargain needs to be eliminated in order for the state to reduce their deficit?

No, but smashing unions is very much on the agenda for the Republican puppetmasters standing behind this whole shindig.

[yo mama]

Can someone explain again why the ability of teachers to collectively bargain needs to be eliminated in order for the state to reduce their deficit?

Because only Republicans can fix the budget, and unions make it harder for Republicans to get elected.

[borge007]

Because only Republicans can fix the budget, and unions make it harder for Republicans to get elected.

[Brewer]

Because Walker wants to eliminate lengthy negotiation barriers when he slashes the school system funding the next few years. It isnt just about the money this year (which the unions conceded) it is about cutting them back even more in the next few years.

 

That, and cutting off at the knees a traditional opponent of Republican candidates. It helps pave the way to less opposition when Republicans run for office in the future by gutting a source of support.

Has Walker provided an estimate as to how much money school districts will save by avoiding lengthy negotiations? Seems like he should leave the school budgets to the locally elected board members.

 

Imagine that.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[Azazello1313]

Can someone explain again why the ability of teachers to collectively bargain needs to be eliminated in order for the state to reduce their deficit?

 

All government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public-personnel management. The very nature and purposes of government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people.

[Brewer]

No, but smashing unions is very much on the agenda for the Republican puppetmasters standing behind this whole shindig.

So, Walker's plan is to smash the teachers union, quit midway through his term, make the talk show and speaking engagement rounds and get his own reality show to make millions? Brilliant!

[rocknrobn26]

I've not said that they are over paid, as a matter of fact I said I did not think they were over paid. I was just pointing out to some that contrary to what many would have you believe they are not underpaid either. That was the only thing that I was trying to prove, and I think I did a pretty good job of proving it.

 

Then what are you implying with this:

So, in take home pay a high school teacher is 156% of that of the average bachelor’s degree, 66.8% of that of the average masters degree, and 104% of an RN, while only working 92.6% of the time of the average worker.

Never mind, don't answer. It means nothing.

 

As, to going out and teaching, I've considered doing it many times, and have often said I will probably do it later in life. If the economy doesn't improve significantly in the near future, I may go out and do it a lot sooner than I originally planned to. I admire good teachers, and know quite a few. I haven't been ragging on the profession, just trying to clear up some misconceptions with regard to their compensation.

 

Do it for a living for a few years then we'll talk.

[bpwallace49]

Has Walker provided an estimate as to how much money school districts will save by avoiding lengthy negotiations? Seems like he should leave the school budgets to the locally elected board members.

 

Imagine that.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

To my knowledge he has not provided numbers as to how eliminating their right to collectively bargain will save money in the future. He has stated how much the deficit is in the next few years, and keeps repeating that they need "flexibility" when negotiating/dictating to unions in the future.

[tosberg34]

All government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public-personnel management. The very nature and purposes of government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people.

 

Right on.

 

I still don't know why the resident lefties on this forum don't get it.

[tosberg34]

Has Walker provided an estimate as to how much money school districts will save by avoiding lengthy negotiations? Seems like he should leave the school budgets to the locally elected board members.

 

Imagine that.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Removing collective bargaining is one of the tools municaplities and school districts can use to get their budgets in line. Walker has not provided an estimate because won't unleashed the full budget until March. But even if he doesn't provide an estimate then, does it really matter? Ending collective bargaining is the right thing to do.

 

Let me ask you this: If you have a Democrat on one side of the table and a union lackey on the other negotiating over wages, benefits, etc... that are being paid for by the taxpayers, who represents the taxpayer? Certainly not the Democrat.

[Brewer]

All government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public-personnel management. The very nature and purposes of government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people.

So I should be able to walk in to the local school and tell them how to run it, or should every decision be put to public vote? We elect school boards to make decisions for the district. If they make poor decisions we don't elect them again. Can you provide an example specific to teacher/school board negotiations?

My understanding is that the Wisconsin Association of School Administrators actually opposes Walkers law.

[Azazello1313]

Right on.

 

I still don't know why the resident lefties on this forum don't get it.

 

that quote you're applauding was from FDR, by the way.

[bpwallace49]

What is truly amazing to me is how they have managed to pit the middle class against itself. When times are tough people start looking for convenient scapegoats, and apparently teachers, nurses, etc are easy targets. The jealously of the "who represents the taxpayer" is laughable when all these people ALSO pay taxes, just like you.

 

Instead of a rising tide lifting all boats, it is how many people can I drag with me as I am drowning.

[borge007]

So, Walker's plan is to smash the teachers union, quit midway through his term, make the talk show and speaking engagement rounds and get his own reality show to make millions? Brilliant!

Thank you Sarah Palin for that idea!