Tebow stinks.

[Azazello1313]

So, you're on record for the following definition of "making plays".

 

the black knight of the huddle.

[detlef]

Dude, all I did was comment on how impressed I was with Tebow, and you are trying to drag me into an argument. You can have it out with others, I'm not interested. I didn't accuse you of anything. I have friends who are Atheist, and it doesn't change my opinion of them one iota. Everyone is entitled to take in the data and come up with their own opinions or beliefs.

C'mon, you brought up the "if the worst thing a guy does is pray too much" bit. That sort of rekindles the bit about people not liking him because of his faith. And I think that's a tired and inaccurate point.

[detlef]

the black knight of the huddle.

Did you or did you not imply that I was getting caught up in semantics and/or backpedaling?

[Azazello1313]

Did you or did you not imply that I was getting caught up in semantics and/or backpedaling?

 

tis but a flesh wound!

[Menudo]

C'mon, you brought up the "if the worst thing a guy does is pray too much" bit. That sort of rekindles the bit about people not liking him because of his faith. And I think that's a tired and inaccurate point.

 

I think you are reading into it WAY too much.

[Ice1]

And why is it any crazier to assume that Tebow all of sudden "gets it" at the end of the game than it is that he is apparently making plays all game long and, finally, everyone else on the offense finally "gets it" enough to keep up with him at the end?

 

It seems to me that you are detractor and I have no issues with that but the reality is Tebow actually played a solid game last week and is certainly improving as evidenced by 6 straight wins.

 

Are you suggesting he is not getting better, can't get better, or is not worthy of being a QB at this level ?

 

Against the Bears he certainly played well. His 3rd down conversion was not great in the 1st 3 quarters but he should have been up 10 to nothing. WR's were dropping passes in bunches, 6 total, and they missed a chip shot FG.

 

What I see is a QB that is getting better at passing and not regressing in reads. What I see is a QB that is taking what the defense is giving him as the game goes on and amazing leadership weekly.

 

I see a QB with no fear and extreme will to win that is humble and realizes it takes an entire team effort to win and points that out weekly.

 

I see an athlete that is working hard and getting better at his trade. No doubt he could not be successful without 10 others on offense, the defense, and special teams but by the same token, they would not be succeeding without him. 1-4 no Tebow; 7-1 with Tebow.

 

The game at this level heats up in the 4th quarter as pressure increases greatly and I am sure most would rather see a QB step up here then play great for 3 quarters only to collapse and lose. He will have plenty of bumps in the rode along the way but I see a winner.

[Hugh 0ne]

Ya know, Ice1 seems to make some good points.

[whomper]

Ya know, Ice1 seems to make some good points.

 

 

I think thats a Jasson Garret alias

[Menudo]

I think thats a Jasson Garret alias

 

[whomper]

It doesnt matter what Tebow does now. Elway could never bench this kid . Ever. If he did people would suspect horse play for sure. Tebow is a rock star. Could you imagine drafting a rookie or bringing in a vet to replace him. They would never be given a chance by the fans. Tebow is the guy in Denver whether people like it or not

[Bronco Billy]

And why is it any crazier to assume that Tebow all of sudden "gets it" at the end of the game than it is that he is apparently making plays all game long and, finally, everyone else on the offense finally "gets it" enough to keep up with him at the end?

 

My point being, that Tebow has a rating well over 100 (107+ I think) in the 4th quarter and overtime. His completion percentage is over 60% in those situations. Couldn't there possibly be another reason why he sucks for 3+ quarters and then suddenly flips a switch and becomes a very good QB when the game is on the line; and then when the next game starts the same thing happens?

 

It just doesn't seem logical that the only reason for this is Tebow would forget how to play QB and be incompetent for so much of the game, and then at a moment's notice turn into a world beater, game after game after game - against widely various D schemes used by different teams to prevent DEN from scoring at the end.

 

What's your rationale for this?

[nelsosi]

Couldn't there possibly be another reason why he sucks for 3+ quarters and then suddenly flips a switch and becomes a very good QB when the game is on the line; and then when the next game starts the same thing happens?

Yes. Defenses inexplicably change their approach on the last few possessions -- abandoning what has worked the rest of the game.

[STL Fan]

Yes. Defenses inexplicably change their approach on the last few possessions -- abandoning what has worked the rest of the game.

 

Bingo. The prevent defense. Designed to specifically give away the very things that are Tebow's strengths. The next D-coordinator that goes into prevent or 2-deep against the Broncos should be immediately fired.

[Ice1]

Bingo. The prevent defense. Designed to specifically give away the very things that are Tebow's strengths. The next D-coordinator that goes into prevent or 2-deep against the Broncos should be immediately fired.

 

Not really buying this.

 

The prevent defense is employed by pretty much every team when up by 2 scores late. It is basically moving the safeties back a few steps to ensure the ball stays in front and protects the sidelines forcing the ball inside.

 

Denver beat it by solid line blocking and putting more players in the pass pattern.

 

The prevent gets a bad name when things go wrong but it is designed to protect the deep pass and sideline. Since many think Tebow can't throw this should be a great defense. He simply is proving he can find the weakness and beat the defense.

 

Interestingly enough the Jets played a base defense with max blitz on several plays and he beat that defense too when needed.

 

Denver also beat the base defense of the Bears in overtime so blaming the prevent seems like a theory more then the real reason. BTW, on the TD pass the Bears certainly were not in a prevent as you can't even play it in the red zone given the small field space in which the teams are working. He beat the Bears there because he extended the play giving more time to find an open WR. When he scrambled right the defense collapsed in to stop him from running and he simply went over the top to a wide open Thomas.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Ice1

[STL Fan]

Not really buying this.

 

The prevent defense is employed by pretty much every team when up by 2 scores late. It is basically moving the safeties back a few steps to ensure the ball stays in front and protects the sidelines forcing the ball inside.

 

Denver beat it by solid line blocking and putting more players in the pass pattern.

 

The prevent gets a bad name when things go wrong but it is designed to protect the deep pass and sideline. Since many think Tebow can't throw this should be a great defense. He simply is proving he can find the weakness and beat the defense.

 

Interestingly enough the Jets played a base defense with max blitz on several plays and he beat that defense too when needed.

 

Denver also beat the base defense of the Bears in overtime so blaming the prevent seems like a theory more then the real reason. BTW, on the TD pass the Bears certainly were not in a prevent as you can't even play it in the red zone given the small field space in which the teams are working. He beat the Bears there because he extended the play giving more time to find an open WR. When he scrambled right the defense collapsed in to stop him from running and he simply went over the top to a wide open Thomas.

 

This makes it a TERRIBLE defense to run against Tebow. You're spending all your energy taking away the things that Tebow doesn't do well, which is the deep stuff. He can throw 6-yard passes fairly effectively, of course so can most High School QB's. Take away the things he does do well and force him out of his comfort zone. That's what teams do against him that works so well for three quarters. The Prevent gets a bad name because it is lazy coaching.

[STL Fan]

Not really buying this.

 

The prevent defense is employed by pretty much every team when up by 2 scores late. It is basically moving the safeties back a few steps to ensure the ball stays in front and protects the sidelines forcing the ball inside.

 

Denver beat it by solid line blocking and putting more players in the pass pattern.

 

The prevent gets a bad name when things go wrong but it is designed to protect the deep pass and sideline. Since many think Tebow can't throw this should be a great defense. He simply is proving he can find the weakness and beat the defense.

 

Interestingly enough the Jets played a base defense with max blitz on several plays and he beat that defense too when needed.

 

Denver also beat the base defense of the Bears in overtime so blaming the prevent seems like a theory more then the real reason. BTW, on the TD pass the Bears certainly were not in a prevent as you can't even play it in the red zone given the small field space in which the teams are working. He beat the Bears there because he extended the play giving more time to find an open WR. When he scrambled right the defense collapsed in to stop him from running and he simply went over the top to a wide open Thomas.

 

This is certainly true, but it only happened because the Bears went in to prevent earlier and allowed the Broncos back in the game.

[bpwallace49]

This is certainly true, but it only happened because the Bears went in to prevent earlier and allowed the Broncos back in the game.

 

And completely blew a coverage that allowed a long pass to a completely wide open, standing still receiver.

[detlef]

My point being, that Tebow has a rating well over 100 (107+ I think) in the 4th quarter and overtime. His completion percentage is over 60% in those situations. Couldn't there possibly be another reason why he sucks for 3+ quarters and then suddenly flips a switch and becomes a very good QB when the game is on the line; and then when the next game starts the same thing happens?

 

It just doesn't seem logical that the only reason for this is Tebow would forget how to play QB and be incompetent for so much of the game, and then at a moment's notice turn into a world beater, game after game after game - against widely various D schemes used by different teams to prevent DEN from scoring at the end.

 

What's your rationale for this?

Why do I have to have one? I take it your rationale is that they operate better in the two minute offense? Are you implying that they should do that all game long? Do you realize how few QBs can pull that off and that those are typically technicians like Manning and Brady?

 

Honestly, I'm just going to back away for a while. Az has become totally useless to argue with, you're pretending that he's making plays all game long, and, really, did anything happen this weekend that either side could expect to sway the other? They won, so the "he's a winner" camp are going to be satisfied. That happened because the opponent was held to very little points and despite an offense that did virtually nothing for the first 3.5 quarters of play, so those of us who are convinced that, if the D was playing only average, as opposed to excellent, the less-than-average offense would be exposed aren't seeing anything that changes that.

 

So, until there's something truly new, there's really nothing left to discuss. The jury remains out, and the only thing that you and I disagree on, really, are his chances at this point.

[delusions of grandeur]

Denver also beat the base defense of the Bears in overtime so blaming the prevent seems like a theory more then the real reason.

You mean when Barber fumbled at their 33, and they got exactly 2 first downs on 8 plays before handing it over to Prater for a 51-yarder to win it? Not to take too much away from the one time in the game where Tebow succeeds, but it's not like he was just running up and down the field on the Bears. Quite the opposite other than when they went to a prevent defense with guys like 25 yards off the line of scrimmage, keeping everything in front of them.

 

Det, you probably aren't even going to want to bother with this thread next week either.... Even if Tebow plays awful all game and they lose, then you'll get the excuse that BB laid out a long time ago, that even good teams lose to the Pats; But say they win, even if it's almost purely by NE's mistakes like CHI this week, then we'll never hear the end of it. I've never seen such selective memories, and it's pointless anyway when BB continues to play both sides of the argument to still claim he was right, no matter whether Tebow fails or succeeds..

 

I agree, I ain't even gonna bother either, until/if Tebow proves he can put a good game together versus anyone (doesn't even have to be a good team), and I'll come back here and eat crow that maybe he can continue to improve to a franchise QB; Until then, this hype has just gone beyond ridiculous.

Edited December 15, 2011 by delusions of granduer

[Bronco Billy]

Bingo. The prevent defense. Designed to specifically give away the very things that are Tebow's strengths. The next D-coordinator that goes into prevent or 2-deep against the Broncos should be immediately fired.

 

The Bears didn't play a prevent D. They played a 4 across line with a deep 2 S. That's why Tebow beat the D on the Thomas TD. Tebow climbed the pocket, broke contain on the extend to the right, and when that isolated the CB on the edge, forced the CB to choose between run support or maintaining coverage.

[stevegrab]

I just watched Sound FX on the NFL network, and they had Tebow mic'd for the game (of course). I came away even more of a fan than I was going in. The thing about the guy, is that he comes off 100% genuine. Before the game with his praying, talking to a young fan and firing up his teammates. Then during the game, the way he always stays composed and his interaction with the Bears players was cool to see. He always stays positive with his coaches and teammates, even when things go bad. All I've got to say is that if the worst the haters can say about you is that you pray too much, then, you've done something right. It certainly isn't Tebow's fault that the media shoves this stuff down our throat.

 

After watching the game and then seeing how composed this young man is, I have to say that I'm even more of a believer. I think the Broncos already have their QB of the future, and I think he will succeed. I don't think he knows how to do anything else.

 

I saw the NFL Replay version of the game and it still bugs me how he does all this stuff thanking the Lord for stuff, like he would really care what Tebow is doing. Doesn't sound like a humble guy. People have told me "Well he has actually come out and said that he knows God doesn't follow what he does." So then why say these things

 

A piece of his press conference piece inserted after Barber fumbled "I might have thanked the Lord when he did that. I said the Lord had something to do with it now." Of course he laughs and chuckles while saying that (apparently to avoid the criticism). Then there was the screaming when they won, and "Thank the Lord" statement. Why keep saying these things if he doesn't really believe it? I have no problem with the "I want to thank God for giving me these talents." But the rest gets really annoying to me (and I'm not some anti-religious person.)

 

 

I believe, that if his team (defense & ST) can keep them in the game for 3Qtr or more, then they have a chance to come back at the end with some Tebow magic. Provided the other team makes mistakes and there's a ton of luck. At least that is what happened against CHI (and in some of the other games).

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I am very much looking forward to this weekend's game. It should give some indication of how talented Denver's defense is. Frankly it has been difficult to get a read on that when they have been playing mostly teams with average offenses when healthy, but which have been far from healthy when the Broncos have faced them.

 

Also, new England has allowed other opponents a fair amont of offensive opportunity. With a few games now under his belt it will be intersting to see if Tebow can move that offense with greater consistency.

[Bronco Billy]

You mean when Barber fumbled at their 33, and they got exactly 2 first downs on 8 plays before handing it over to Prater for a 51-yarder to win it? Not to take too much away from the one time in the game where Tebow succeeds, but it's not like he was just running up and down the field on the Bears. Quite the opposite other than when they went to a prevent defense with guys like 25 yards off the line of scrimmage, keeping everything in front of them.

 

Det, you probably aren't even going to want to bother with this thread next week either.... Even if Tebow plays awful all game and they lose, then you'll get the excuse that BB laid out a long time ago, that even good teams lose to the Pats; But say they win, even if it's almost purely by NE's mistakes like CHI this week, then we'll never hear the end of it. I've never seen such selective memories, and it's pointless anyway when BB continues to play both sides of the argument to still claim he was right, no matter whether Tebow fails or succeeds..

 

I agree, I ain't even gonna bother either, until/if Tebow proves he can put a good game together versus anyone (doesn't even have to be a good team), and I'll come back here and eat crow that maybe he can continue to improve to a franchise QB; Until then, this hype has just gone beyond ridiculous.

 

You know, I really don't mind that you tell everyone - including me - what my opinion is. I just wish you'd be even a little accurate every once in a ####ing while.

[Square]

Tom Brady, after living a full life, died. When he got to heaven, God was showing him around. They came to a modest little house with a faded Patriots flag in the window. "This house is yours for eternity Tom, said God. "This is very special; not everyone gets a house up here." Tom felt special, indeed, and walked up to his house.

 

On his way up the porch, he noticed another house just around the corner. It was a huge 3-story mansion with Orange and Blue sidewalks and driveways, a 50 foot tall flagpole with an enormous Broncos logo flag waving, a swimming pool in shape of a horse, a Broncos logo in every window, and a Tim Tebow jersey on the front door.

 

 

Tom looked at God and said "God, I'm not trying to be ungrateful, but I have a question. I was an all-pro QB, I won 3 Super Bowls, and I even went to the Hall of Fame."

 

 

God said "So what's your point Tom?"

 

 

"Well, why does Tim Tebow get a better house than me?"

 

 

God chuckled, and said "Tom, that's not Tim's house, it's mine."

[stevegrab]