Tebow stinks.

[bpwallace49]

BB doesn't always clamor over his Bronco players, but when he does, he goes balls deep.

 

[detlef]

I don't understand your position here. Are you saying that I willingly and often concede points?

 

I don't think that is your intent, but I may be mistaken. I can show you more than a few cases of Tebow making plays in the first half of games, including in his first start this year vs MIA, so that would seem to be what you are saying, unless you have no clue what you are talking about, which I guess would be the other possibility.

BB, taking things a bit literal, aren't you? I'm sure Tebow made "a few plays" in the first 3 quarters of the Dolphins game. But I'm guessing bushwacked was looking for more than the ocassional scramble or completed pass that buys them exactly one more series of downs before they punt. In big boy football, that's not called "making plays". Because you're actually not supposed to go 3 and out every time.

 

And yes, before you bother to mention it, I looked it up. Yes, Tebow did string together a whole "drive" in the first half. One that started on their 20 and ended on the Dolphin 26. That was "making plays".

 

Surely you're not denying the fact that Tebow doesn't exactly light it up in the first half of games. That, in fact, KC and Oakland games aside, he's downright anemic actually.

[bpwallace49]

BB, taking things a bit literal, aren't you? I'm sure Tebow made "a few plays" in the first 3 quarters of the Dolphins game. But I'm guessing bushwacked was looking for more than the ocassional scramble or completed pass that buys them exactly one more series of downs before they punt. In big boy football, that's not called "making plays". Because you're actually not supposed to go 3 and out every time.

 

And yes, before you bother to mention it, I looked it up. Yes, Tebow did string together a whole "drive" in the first half. One that started on their 20 and ended on the Dolphin 26. That was "making plays".

 

Surely you're not denying the fact that Tebow doesn't exactly light it up in the first half of games. That, in fact, KC and Oakland games aside, he's downright anemic actually.

 

That is squarely on the OC and receivers. But if I sprinkle in a "Tebow made some bad passes" then that mitigates the Tebow-mania . . . right?

[Azazello1313]

In big boy football, that's not called "making plays". Because you're actually not supposed to go 3 and out every time.

 

And yes, before you bother to mention it, I looked it up. Yes, Tebow did string together a whole "drive" in the first half. One that started on their 20 and ended on the Dolphin 26. That was "making plays".

 

That is squarely on the OC and receivers. But if I sprinkle in a "Tebow made some bad passes" then that mitigates the Tebow-mania . . . right?

 

44 pages and 7 wins in, and all you guys are left with is this pathetic semantic backpedalling.

[bushwacked]

If Tebow wins this weekend, BB and Az are going to make Menudo and Cowboyz1 seem objective.

[Ice1]

Sounds good Ice1.

 

I am going to do some serious Tebowing

[Big John]

When I signed up, the site made me pick 4 characters. Not sure why but it was just a week or so ago.

 

So I had to put a 1 at the end of my name to go through. Oh well!

3-character name that registered today

 

Edit: Wouldn't matter anyway as "Ice" was already taken.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Big John

[hooknladder]

......-i just don't get this thread. ....-i think Tebow is pretty good.

[Sunday Couch Potatoe]

Sounds good Ice1.

[isleseeya]

Sounds good Ice1.

 

[detlef]

44 pages and 7 wins in, and all you guys are left with is this pathetic semantic backpedalling.

So, you're on record for the following definition of "making plays".

 

When in the course of a three quarters of play (and let's remember, Bronco Billy said he was "making plays" during the first half of the Dolphins game"), you engineer drives of the following distances:

8 yards

30 yards

10 yards

54 yards

15 yards

1 yard

1 yard

9 yards

-3 yards

 

That is what the Broncos netted in every drive they had in the first 3 quarters of play. Hell,their first two in the 4th that netted 11 yards each.

 

How many effing "plays" can you possibly make if you gain more than 15 yards twice in 11 drives?

 

And this is why illustrations like this are important:

1) Because we hear drivel like "The Broncos are winning with defense and ball-control offense". Tell me, does that look like "ball control offense?'

2) Because it is rather obvious that Tebow's greatest strength is the 4th quarter. If we start pretending that he's actually effective prior to that, we may as well start talking about what a dual threat Tom Brady is. That's the thing about Tom Brady, he can kill you through the air, but if you try to cover all his WRs, he'll torch you with his feet.

 

ETA: And let's be clear. This whole thing started because someone said BB is as likely to concede a point as Tebow is of making a play in the first 3 quarters of games. To which BB replied, "So you mean willingly and often?". In other words, the above not only illustrates "making plays" but making them "often".

Edited December 15, 2011 by detlef

[Ditkaless Wonders]

So, you're on record for the following definition of "making plays".

 

When in the course of a three quarters of play (and let's remember, Bronco Billy said he was "making plays" during the first half of the Dolphins game"), you engineer drives of the following distances:

8 yards

30 yards

10 yards

54 yards

15 yards

1 yard

1 yard

9 yards

-3 yards

 

That is what the Broncos netted in every drive they had in the first 3 quarters of play. Hell,their first two in the 4th that netted 11 yards each.

 

How many effing "plays" can you possibly make if you gain more than 15 yards twice in 11 drives?

 

And this is why illustrations like this are important:

1) Because we hear drivel like "The Broncos are winning with defense and ball-control offense". Tell me, does that look like "ball control offense?'

2) Because it is rather obvious that Tebow's greatest strength is the 4th quarter. If we start pretending that he's actually effective prior to that, we may as well start talking about what a dual threat Tom Brady is. That's the thing about Tom Brady, he can kill you through the air, but if you try to cover all his WRs, he'll torch you with his feet.

 

 

Those are not failed drives, they are heavy body blows setting up the opponent for the late round knock out.

[Menudo]

I just watched Sound FX on the NFL network, and they had Tebow mic'd for the game (of course). I came away even more of a fan than I was going in. The thing about the guy, is that he comes off 100% genuine. Before the game with his praying, talking to a young fan and firing up his teammates. Then during the game, the way he always stays composed and his interaction with the Bears players was cool to see. He always stays positive with his coaches and teammates, even when things go bad. All I've got to say is that if the worst the haters can say about you is that you pray too much, then, you've done something right. It certainly isn't Tebow's fault that the media shoves this stuff down our throat.

 

After watching the game and then seeing how composed this young man is, I have to say that I'm even more of a believer. I think the Broncos already have their QB of the future, and I think he will succeed. I don't think he knows how to do anything else.

[Ice1]

Embrace the Tebow... 15-20 in the 4th quarter against the Bears.....WOW. He is a top 5 QB in the entire league over the last quarter.... Not bad for a running back

[detlef]

Those are not failed drives, they are heavy body blows setting up the opponent for the late round knock out.

More like rope a dope.

[detlef]

I just watched Sound FX on the NFL network, and they had Tebow mic'd for the game (of course). I came away even more of a fan than I was going in. The thing about the guy, is that he comes off 100% genuine. Before the game with his praying, talking to a young fan and firing up his teammates. Then during the game, the way he always stays composed and his interaction with the Bears players was cool to see. He always stays positive with his coaches and teammates, even when things go bad. All I've got to say is that if the worst the haters can say about you is that you pray too much, then, you've done something right. It certainly isn't Tebow's fault that the media shoves this stuff down our throat.

 

After watching the game and then seeing how composed this young man is, I have to say that I'm even more of a believer. I think the Broncos already have their QB of the future, and I think he will succeed. I don't think he knows how to do anything else.

Could someone finally post a link to someone saying they don't like him because of how much he prays? Not, mind you, someone saying that's why people hat him. But someone actually saying they don't like him because he prays too much? Well, in actuality, a lot of people saying that? Because that's the implication. That "we" hate Tebow because he's too Christian. That "we" can't handle what a good guy he his. If, in fact, "we" are a few d-bags here and there, I think it's a lot to do about nothing.

 

Once again, I would be a perfect candidate for "we". I'm obviously not sold on his ability as a QB and I'm certainly not a big fan of religion. But I couldn't be happier that dude is as good as he is. And if he gets it from his faith, well that's nice to see. Especially considering how much hatred is spewed by people claiming faith. I think good people are great. And I'd rather be proven wrong by him than have him fail at his life's ambition.

[Square]

44 pages and 7 wins in, and all you guys are left with is this pathetic semantic backpedalling.

So officially you are against long verbose threads that are heavy on semantics and backpedalling? Is that your final answer?

[Menudo]

Could someone finally post a link to someone saying they don't like him because of how much he prays? Not, mind you, someone saying that's why people hat him. But someone actually saying they don't like him because he prays too much? Well, in actuality, a lot of people saying that? Because that's the implication. That "we" hate Tebow because he's too Christian. That "we" can't handle what a good guy he his. If, in fact, "we" are a few d-bags here and there, I think it's a lot to do about nothing.

 

Once again, I would be a perfect candidate for "we". I'm obviously not sold on his ability as a QB and I'm certainly not a big fan of religion. But I couldn't be happier that dude is as good as he is. And if he gets it from his faith, well that's nice to see. Especially considering how much hatred is spewed by people claiming faith. I think good people are great. And I'd rather be proven wrong by him than have him fail at his life's ambition.

 

I think you are getting just a 'tad' defensive here. I know that YOU are simply arguing his abilities as a QB, but, if you don't think his praying and faith have some rooting against him, or at least annoyed by him, than you are being naive. I don't have any links for you, so, I guess I don't have proof, but, based on facebook posts, general comments I've heard, etc. I'm confident that it is true in some cases.

[detlef]

I think you are getting just a 'tad' defensive here. I know that YOU are simply arguing his abilities as a QB, but, if you don't think his praying and faith have some rooting against him, or at least annoyed by him, than you are being naive. I don't have any links for you, so, I guess I don't have proof, but, based on facebook posts, general comments I've heard, etc. I'm confident that it is true in some cases.

No, honestly, I don't think I'm the one being defensive. I live in a country that is nearly 80% Christian and yet I'm often reminded of how picked on Christians are. Reminded by Christians, that is. When society opposes faith-based legislation, that's apparently an attack on religion. When people doubt Tebow, it's because they hate him for being Christian.

 

So, really, I'm not seeing it and I have a ton of friends who are atheist. I'm not hearing it from them either. Every-single-time I hear it, I hear it from someone who is alleging it happens. At what point am I allowed to call BS? Because here's the evidence at hand: I'm not seeing it happen and a group who has illustrated that they're predisposed to pretend they're being attacked is saying it's happening. Sounds a whole lot like someone is crying wolf.

 

ETA: For the record, the last time someone asked this, Az smugly referenced a search that showed how many times "Jesus" and "Tebow" were used in the same post in Huddle threads. And half of them were because Bronco Billy was exclaiming "Jesus Christ!" in frustration because someone didn't agree with him.

Edited December 15, 2011 by detlef

[Bronco Billy]

BB, taking things a bit literal, aren't you? I'm sure Tebow made "a few plays" in the first 3 quarters of the Dolphins game. But I'm guessing bushwacked was looking for more than the ocassional scramble or completed pass that buys them exactly one more series of downs before they punt. In big boy football, that's not called "making plays". Because you're actually not supposed to go 3 and out every time.

 

And yes, before you bother to mention it, I looked it up. Yes, Tebow did string together a whole "drive" in the first half. One that started on their 20 and ended on the Dolphin 26. That was "making plays".

 

Surely you're not denying the fact that Tebow doesn't exactly light it up in the first half of games. That, in fact, KC and Oakland games aside, he's downright anemic actually.

 

I'm not sure why you are feeling the need to stick your nose into this. bushwhacked was being a bag of dicks and I called him on it, no more. He was utilizing some over-the-top hyperbole to attempt to score points, like he often does when his positions are weak. He's far from alone in doing so in this thread or in regularly using this kind of tactic, but he decided to take aim at me and I fired back. He still hasn't answered, which also was expected, as is his continued mischaracterization of my position above.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Bronco Billy

[detlef]

I'm not sure why you are feeling the need to stick your nose into this. bushwhacked was being a bag of dicks and I called him on it, no more. He was utilizing some over-the-top hyperbole to attempt to score points, like he often does when his positions are weak. He's far from alone in doing so in this thread or in regularly using this kind of tactic, but he decided to take aim at me and I fired back. He still hasn't answered, which also was expected, as is his continued mischaracterization of my position above.

Um, here's the breakdown:

 

He said you're as likely to concede a point as Tebow is to make plays in the early parts of games.

 

You implied that must mean you concede points "willingly and often" if we were comparing this to Tebow making plays. Well, that and anyone who would suggest otherwise about Tebow didn't know what he was talking about and specifically referenced the Miami game. In other words, Tebow must be making "making plays often" in the early parts of games, including the Miami game.

 

So I looked it up and am curious if any reasonable person would look at the production I showed and describe that as "often making plays".

 

What are we missing here Bronco? Certainly many of us didn't actually see the game, so I'm sure there's something. How many plays did Tebow actually make while he was engineering drives, nearly all of which netted 15 yards or less?

[Bronco Billy]

What are we missing here Bronco? Certainly many of us didn't actually see the game, so I'm sure there's something. How many plays did Tebow actually make while he was engineering drives, nearly all of which netted 15 yards or less?

 

Why don't you do the research and tell all of us? And make sure to identify where it was Tebow's failure to perform that caused a drive to stall, and when it was the result of another factor, so that we all can quantify exactly how badly Tebow is playing in the first half before he miraculously improves at the end of the game, suddenly "gets it" and leads the team down the field for winning scores, only to completely forget how to do this the following week until the game is again on the line.

[MTSuper7]

Why don't you do the research and tell all of us? And make sure to identify where it was Tebow's failure to perform that caused a drive to stall, and when it was the result of another factor, so that we all can quantify exactly how badly Tebow is playing in the first half before he miraculously improves at the end of the game, suddenly "gets it" and leads the team down the field for winning scores, only to completely forget how to do this the following week until the game is again on the line.

 

The quarterback is largely blamed when the offense doesn't move the ball because the quarterback touches the ball on every single play. That being said, certianly things like penalties, dropped passes, fumbles, missed blocking assignments and even chitty playcalling are all factors. If the Broncos do struggle to move the ball for 2 or 3 quarters, Tebow is only one reason. But he's such a huge target that he gets 100% of the blame. And if I weren't too lazy to do it, I'd probably see plenty of examples where he failed to connect on a throw because he made a poor pass or poor read. But there are probably of plenty of non-Tebow issues as well. I think BB is simply pointing out that you can't place 100% of the offensive struggle on Tebow.

[detlef]

Why don't you do the research and tell all of us? And make sure to identify where it was Tebow's failure to perform that caused a drive to stall, and when it was the result of another factor, so that we all can quantify exactly how badly Tebow is playing in the first half before he miraculously improves at the end of the game, suddenly "gets it" and leads the team down the field for winning scores, only to completely forget how to do this the following week until the game is again on the line.

You're making it more complicated than you have to. Every QB is subjected to the following issues that are out of his control: Players drop passes, players besides him commit penalties, O-lineman miss blocks, players besides him fumble the ball, coach calls a dumb play, and so on. Yet, on average, QBs tend to make enough plays that their best drive over the course of three quarters, is better than one that was simply good enough that it should have (but didn't) yield 3 pts.

 

So, I'm basically operating under the assumption that Tebow is no more or less subject to badness around him than your typical NFL QB. You're always quick to point out how many good passes are dropped, yet I also see plenty of errant passes that guys make great plays on. That and the fact that I've seen enough football to know that WRs dropping passes is not unique to the Broncos.

 

And why is it any crazier to assume that Tebow all of sudden "gets it" at the end of the game than it is that he is apparently making plays all game long and, finally, everyone else on the offense finally "gets it" enough to keep up with him at the end?

Edited December 15, 2011 by detlef

[Menudo]

No, honestly, I don't think I'm the one being defensive. I live in a country that is nearly 80% Christian and yet I'm often reminded of how picked on Christians are. Reminded by Christians, that is. When society opposes faith-based legislation, that's apparently an attack on religion. When people doubt Tebow, it's because they hate him for being Christian.

 

So, really, I'm not seeing it and I have a ton of friends who are atheist. I'm not hearing it from them either. Every-single-time I hear it, I hear it from someone who is alleging it happens. At what point am I allowed to call BS? Because here's the evidence at hand: I'm not seeing it happen and a group who has illustrated that they're predisposed to pretend they're being attacked is saying it's happening. Sounds a whole lot like someone is crying wolf.

 

ETA: For the record, the last time someone asked this, Az smugly referenced a search that showed how many times "Jesus" and "Tebow" were used in the same post in Huddle threads. And half of them were because Bronco Billy was exclaiming "Jesus Christ!" in frustration because someone didn't agree with him.

 

Dude, all I did was comment on how impressed I was with Tebow, and you are trying to drag me into an argument. You can have it out with others, I'm not interested. I didn't accuse you of anything. I have friends who are Atheist, and it doesn't change my opinion of them one iota. Everyone is entitled to take in the data and come up with their own opinions or beliefs.