Danskman Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I just watched it again, and Artest definitely got the wrong guy. Hard to tell who really threw the cup, but it looks like the guy in the blue shirt and white hat next to guy Artests grabs. Artest never hits the dude with the glasses, and is held back by the guy in the blue shirt/white hat, who then proceeds to hit him twice in the back of the head). At this point Artest turns around and defends himself. I really don't fault Artest for hitting this guy, I don't care who you are, noone would do anything different. Artest then moves back to the court and is confronted by fatty#1 who comes at him with his arms raises in "fighting position". Again, I have a hard time faulting Artest for reacting to that the way he did. Emotions are flying at a superhigh, you get back to the court and an idiot fan gets in your face to fight you. You stop, signal a cop for help??? A player should never enter the stands and a fan should never get on the court, but what happened last tonight was unique. Players got assaulted from the stands while on the court and fans got assaulted while on the court. Pacers #20 Jones got hammered by a fat fan from the back. Unbelievable. I mean what does a player do in that situation? Now what I do find disgraceful was Jacksons actions. Yes, he was defending his boy, but he never seemed to want to stop, like Artest. O'Neil's sucker punch needs major suspension, no excuse for attacking fatty#2. Wallace has to bare a lot of responsibilty for all this. His actions were of a sore loser. Yes, you got fouled hard (happens to Shaq every night) and probably happens to yourself all season, but shoving Artest in the face and provoking a fight is ridiculous. You should know fans would overreact too when they see you act like this. Yes, you didn't like the way Artest was lying on the table, but still no excuse to throw the towel. And the last thing I find absolutely ridiculous was the actions of the fans when the Pacers players tried to leave the arena. Again, pro player or not, any human would have a hard time staying calm when you are "assaulted" like that. I think the league needs to look at this incedent and take everything into consideration before handing down suspensions and fines. Many people are to blame for this. What occured and what provoked it. I do think Artest is crazy, but I just hate when people are "sentenced" based on reputation only and not "facts". The Detroit police needs to look at tape, indentify individuals in the stands and procecute accordingly and the pistons need to ban these individuals for ever attending a Pistons game in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Those two knuckleheads can claim they went onto the floor to get away from violence in the stands, and claim that were were not given adequate protection by the stadium security. Do I believe that? Of course not..... they were part of the mob problem, for sure. They will have a case, if they are willing to lie.... and I bet that they will! 566223[/snapback] I wouldn't be so sure: every ticket has disclaimers about proper site behavior, and you can bet there is some type of 'out' legally that the Piston can use because the fan went onto the court. Further, IMO it happened at a point where it looked like it was about to become a 200 to 15 fight. Those 3 Pacers at that point had every right to fight their way off the court during that melee. The Mob tried to rule last night, and hopefully they'll be prosecuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I just watched it again, and Artest definitely got the wrong guy. Hard to tell who really threw the cup, but it looks like the guy in the blue shirt and white hat next to guy Artests grabs. Artest never hits the dude with the glasses, and is held back by the guy in the blue shirt/white hat, who then proceeds to hit him twice in the back of the head). At this point Artest turns around and defends himself. I really don't fault Artest for hitting this guy, I don't care who you are, noone would do anything different. Artest then moves back to the court and is confronted by fatty#1 who comes at him with his arms raises in "fighting position". Again, I have a hard time faulting Artest for reacting to that the way he did. Emotions are flying at a superhigh, you get back to the court and an idiot fan gets in your face to fight you. You stop, signal a cop for help??? A player should never enter the stands and a fan should never get on the court, but what happened last tonight was unique. Players got assaulted from the stands while on the court and fans got assaulted while on the court. Pacers #20 Jones got hammered by a fat fan from the back. Unbelievable. I mean what does a player do in that situation? Now what I do find disgraceful was Jacksons actions. Yes, he was defending his boy, but he never seemed to want to stop, like Artest. O'Neil's sucker punch needs major suspension, no excuse for attacking fatty#2. Wallace has to bare a lot of responsibilty for all this. His actions were of a sore loser. Yes, you got fouled hard (happens to Shaq every night) and probably happens to yourself all season, but shoving Artest in the face and provoking a fight is ridiculous. You should know fans would overreact too when they see you act like this. Yes, you didn't like the way Artest was lying on the table, but still no excuse to throw the towel. And the last thing I find absolutely ridiculous was the actions of the fans when the Pacers players tried to leave the arena. Again, pro player or not, any human would have a hard time staying calm when you are "assaulted" like that. I think the league needs to look at this incedent and take everything into consideration before handing down suspensions and fines. Many people are to blame for this. What occured and what provoked it. I do think Artest is crazy, but I just hate when people are "sentenced" based on reputation only and not "facts". The Detroit police needs to look at tape, indentify individuals in the stands and procecute accordingly and the pistons need to ban these individuals for ever attending a Pistons game in the future. 566253[/snapback] Sounds like a pretty fair and accurate assesment of the situation to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 There will never be an indefinite suspension because that would mean an undetermined amount of time. They will likely get suspensions, but they will be of a determinate length, I'm certain. 565757[/snapback] Ok, I stand corrected here piratesownninjas...ESPN just announced that Artest, Jackson, O'Neil and Wallace were given "indefinite" suspensions by the NBA. They also said that they are only indefinite for now, until the NBA can further investigate the events of last night and come up with concrete suspensions, and they said that could happen as early as tommorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danskman Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Ok, I stand corrected here piratesownninjas...ESPN just announced that Artest, Jackson, O'Neil and Wallace were given "indefinite" suspensions by the NBA. They also said that they are only indefinite for now, until the NBA can further investigate the events of last night and come up with concrete suspensions, and they said that could happen as early as tommorrow. 566333[/snapback] I'm glad they acted quickly and included Wallace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 OK, so Hook, Turf, and whoever else was saying I was an idiot for saying there would be indefinate suspensions... Now that Stern has suspended all of them, including Ben Wallace indefinatley... What now... Me 1; You guys, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Another thing... Once you are thrusted into the public spot light, you have to play by different rules... You have to be careful what you do... ESPECIALLY when it comes to every day regular fans... How many times do you think the broncos have had beers dumped onto them while playing the raiders? It happens more than not, but most athletes are smart enough to know that you can't react in the manner that the three pacers did. Once a fan goes onto the court its open season... I agree, but you can't go into the stands. Doug Christie saw the tape and said the same thing I've been saying... Spree was suspended indefinatley for atticking PJ Carlisimo... Jackson, ONeil and Artest wont play for a while... And the Pacers being "men" So after Artest slugged the guy walking on the court, O'Neil goes and hits him while he's down... The guy got what he deserved, but O'Neil is not a man. 565730[/snapback] Dude - enough. Are you serious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 This year, another knucklehead ran onto the field at Shea Stadium. He didn't assault or hurt anyone, but got THREE months in jail for it. That was the LAST guy to run on the field this year. I hate it when someone is used to set an example, but in this case, I think the authorities have to come down hard on everyone involved to send a clear message..... do this, and you go to jail, period. This goes for the three Pacers, and EVERY single person they can identify on tape. There were some good shots of fans throwing things at the players on thier way to the locker room. Every last one they can catch? Jail. The guy in the hat? 6 months, if I had my way, and the same for the fat guy in the sweat shirt who was punching Jones. It worked quite nicely at Shea, and it ought to be done at football games too, where it is a common occurance. These people comitted criminal acts, and should be treated as criminals. What Wallace did, well, it was an over reaction, but I understand it was a very rough game, and there were things that went on before the hard foul. I have seen players shove each other what, 100 times? Sure, he should get a few games, but I can't blame Wallace for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 What Wallace did, well, it was an over reaction, but I understand it was a very rough game, and there were things that went on before the hard foul. I have seen players shove each other what, 100 times? Sure, he should get a few games, but I can't blame Wallace for this. 566520[/snapback] Completely agree, Rovers. What Wallace did, while not very smart, is the same thing that has happened numerous times in the NBA without fans ever getting involved. Sometimes the players fight, but not the fans. Ben is to blame for his actions on the court, the idiot fan is to blame for starting the melee, but more importantly the Pacer players are to blame for entering the stands. If they would have showed restraint there would have been no news. Of course, then we wouldn't have had this lively discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Cheezhead Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 In all of this, I forgot about O'Neal. He is absolutely dead to rights guilty of assault for blind siding that idiot on the court who was still getting off the ground. One of the reasons the idiots on the court have a solid case is that they never threw a punch, but were hit by three different Pacers. Those boys will be getting some serious cash. 566191[/snapback] If you're going to say something this ignorant, at least don't act condescending in your other posts. "Absolutely dead to rights guilty of assault"? Skrappy is right -- you don't need physical provocation to assault a trespasser. The act of trespassing is considered enough of a threat to warrant "self defense". I hate to tell another "story" here, but I also had a childhood experience regarding the trespassing/assault issue. Our house backed a huge dirt field, which neighborhood kids turned into a bike park with ramps and jumps and such. I knew most of the BMX kids from school and one of them was complete punk -- we didn't get a long. He knew where I lived and, one day, he and his buddies started throwing dirt chunks into our pool while my friends and I were swimming. I stood up on a chair and had some words with the kid over our concrete-block wall, which prompted the kid to approach our backyard. My stepdad heard the yelling from the kitchen and came outside right as the punk kid was climbing our backyard wall. The kid got up and straddled the wall and said a few more things to me. My stepdad walked over and punched the kid right in the kidney area, which caused him to fall off the fence onto the dirt and start crying. Of course, it was friggin' hilarious to me, but I knew cops would be at our door sometime that day. Sure enough, about an hour later, two patrolmen rang the doorbell. After my stepdad told them the same story the kid did, the cops told him that he was within his rights to knock the kid off his wall. In fact, one of the cops told my stepdad that if the kid had "accidentally fallen" into our backyard, he could have beat him senseless. Personally, I'm glad there are laws like this. If I'm at home and I encounter a burglar in my living room, there's no way I wait for him to throw the first blow. And if I'm an NBA player SUPPOSED to be out of harm's way on the court, I wouldn't hesitate to knock out a trespassing fan, whose intentions are dubious at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrison4mvp Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 How about coming to the agreement that it was the fans fault, ron artests fault, stephen jacksons fault, jermains fault and ben wallaces fault. They're all to blame in this incident. It is obviously HORRIBLE for the Nba, and did anyone hear about that fight in college football today, they blamed it on being pumped from the piston game, sports are falling apart as we know it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Swiss Cheezhead, simply because we disagree is no reason to say: If you're going to say something this ignorant, at least don't act condescending in your other posts. "Absolutely dead to rights guilty of assault"? Skrappy is right -- you don't need physical provocation to assault a trespasser. The act of trespassing is considered enough of a threat to warrant "self defense". Perhaps you did not understand the meaning of my post, or did not read it in it's entirety. O'Neal does NOT OWN the floor, does he? That is the first difference in the comparison of this incident to your story. First, I do happen to think that on the face of it, O'Neal did assault that guy. He was not a threat, at that point. He was in fact being restrained by a securty gaurd when O'Neal hit him. Watch the tape again. In any case, what I DID say, was that this knucklehead had an assault case, and it's easy that it's a lock. All they have to say is that they fled the stands to escape the violence, claim that security was inadequate to protect them and then they were assaulted. Now, why do you feel the need to call me ignorant and condescending? Why can't we just discuss it without the name calling? I will not respond in kind, I hate when discussions turn into name calling fests. I have not taken sides on this whole thing, I've just talked about my take on it. There is plenty of blame to go around. Should I apologise because we don't agree? I think not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 OK, so Hook, Turf, and whoever else was saying I was an idiot for saying there would be indefinate suspensions... Now that Stern has suspended all of them, including Ben Wallace indefinatley... What now...Me 1; You guys, 0 566351[/snapback] I never said that they weren't going to get indefinite suspensions, I said as of last night, they hadn't been handed out yet. You said that they would be suspended indefinitely, implying that it would be career-ending. I said that was not what "indefinite" means. It means they are suspended until the league determines a length. You are still wrong, because you think indefinite means forever, LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackshi17 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 If you're going to say something this ignorant, at least don't act condescending in your other posts. "Absolutely dead to rights guilty of assault"? Skrappy is right -- you don't need physical provocation to assault a trespasser. The act of trespassing is considered enough of a threat to warrant "self defense". I hate to tell another "story" here, but I also had a childhood experience regarding the trespassing/assault issue. Our house backed a huge dirt field, which neighborhood kids turned into a bike park with ramps and jumps and such. I knew most of the BMX kids from school and one of them was complete punk -- we didn't get a long. He knew where I lived and, one day, he and his buddies started throwing dirt chunks into our pool while my friends and I were swimming. I stood up on a chair and had some words with the kid over our concrete-block wall, which prompted the kid to approach our backyard. My stepdad heard the yelling from the kitchen and came outside right as the punk kid was climbing our backyard wall. The kid got up and straddled the wall and said a few more things to me. My stepdad walked over and punched the kid right in the kidney area, which caused him to fall off the fence onto the dirt and start crying. Of course, it was friggin' hilarious to me, but I knew cops would be at our door sometime that day. Sure enough, about an hour later, two patrolmen rang the doorbell. After my stepdad told them the same story the kid did, the cops told him that he was within his rights to knock the kid off his wall. In fact, one of the cops told my stepdad that if the kid had "accidentally fallen" into our backyard, he could have beat him senseless. Personally, I'm glad there are laws like this. If I'm at home and I encounter a burglar in my living room, there's no way I wait for him to throw the first blow. And if I'm an NBA player SUPPOSED to be out of harm's way on the court, I wouldn't hesitate to knock out a trespassing fan, whose intentions are dubious at best. 566630[/snapback] Where the hell did you grow up somewhere in the "axis of evil"? Somewhere there a bunch of cops who need the law explained to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 After Michael Jordon retired, is there anyone in the NBA left who can be a role model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Why is Gallagher not in jail? How many counts of assault has he committed? The next time I get a piece of watermelon on my face because of this so-called comedian, I'm going to defend myself by punching him into tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackshi17 Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Why is Gallagher not in jail? How many counts of assault has he committed? The next time I get a piece of watermelon on my face because of this so-called comedian, I'm going to defend myself by punching him into tomorrow. 566841[/snapback] Just be sure you do it in "SwissCheesehead" home town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egret Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Have you ever seen what happens to people that run out on the field in pro football by security or even players? Fat boys should consider themselves lucky. In my opinion, Detroit fans were acting like fools and they got what they deserved. 566203[/snapback] There's a big difference between tackling somebody and punching them in the face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azhir Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 I just watched it again, and Artest definitely got the wrong guy. Hard to tell who really threw the cup, but it looks like the guy in the blue shirt and white hat next to guy Artests grabs. Artest never hits the dude with the glasses, and is held back by the guy in the blue shirt/white hat, who then proceeds to hit him twice in the back of the head). At this point Artest turns around and defends himself. I really don't fault Artest for hitting this guy, I don't care who you are, noone would do anything different. Artest then moves back to the court and is confronted by fatty#1 who comes at him with his arms raises in "fighting position". Again, I have a hard time faulting Artest for reacting to that the way he did. Emotions are flying at a superhigh, you get back to the court and an idiot fan gets in your face to fight you. You stop, signal a cop for help??? A player should never enter the stands and a fan should never get on the court, but what happened last tonight was unique. Players got assaulted from the stands while on the court and fans got assaulted while on the court. Pacers #20 Jones got hammered by a fat fan from the back. Unbelievable. I mean what does a player do in that situation? Now what I do find disgraceful was Jacksons actions. Yes, he was defending his boy, but he never seemed to want to stop, like Artest. O'Neil's sucker punch needs major suspension, no excuse for attacking fatty#2. Wallace has to bare a lot of responsibilty for all this. His actions were of a sore loser. Yes, you got fouled hard (happens to Shaq every night) and probably happens to yourself all season, but shoving Artest in the face and provoking a fight is ridiculous. You should know fans would overreact too when they see you act like this. Yes, you didn't like the way Artest was lying on the table, but still no excuse to throw the towel. And the last thing I find absolutely ridiculous was the actions of the fans when the Pacers players tried to leave the arena. Again, pro player or not, any human would have a hard time staying calm when you are "assaulted" like that. I think the league needs to look at this incedent and take everything into consideration before handing down suspensions and fines. Many people are to blame for this. What occured and what provoked it. I do think Artest is crazy, but I just hate when people are "sentenced" based on reputation only and not "facts". The Detroit police needs to look at tape, indentify individuals in the stands and procecute accordingly and the pistons need to ban these individuals for ever attending a Pistons game in the future. 566253[/snapback] Out of all the 200 something posts in this topic , this is exactly what i think, artest does deserve maybe a 6-10 game suspension, but Jackson and Oneal i think we're rediculous, i have no respect at all for those woosies, but i think the Detroit fans were the worst in this brawl, epecially while the pacers getting off the court throwing all the beer bottles at the players. And one more thing, Where were the rest of the detroit players other than the 2 wallaces, and RIP, did the camera's not show them? I was just wondering what their reactions were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00bie Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 After reading thru all of this, my thoughts were similiar to that of Rovers... The guy that Artest first grabbed was quoted saying "....grabbed me and pushed me down by the throat and asked if I threw beer at him...". I'm not sure about you people, but I would consider this assault. Think about it for a second, if somebody grabbed you and pushed you down by your throat what would you consider it? A friendly greeting? What would Artest do just go around "grabbing random people and pushing them down by their throat" until he found the guilty culprit? Complete nonsense in my opinion. Artest needed to be the bigger "man" in this situation, and he failed miserably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 (edited) I never said that they weren't going to get indefinite suspensions, I said as of last night, they hadn't been handed out yet. You said that they would be suspended indefinitely, implying that it would be career-ending. I said that was not what "indefinite" means. It means they are suspended until the league determines a length. You are still wrong, because you think indefinite means forever, LOL. 566733[/snapback] No, I went on to say that Artest would be out the season, but I would like for it to be career ending... Me 2 Hook 0... But its cute, your saying that I was implying things while I said that indefinate would be the season... Oh, and just to save you time hook, lol rofl lmao, lmfao or whatever else stupid abbreviations you have to put in here. Edited November 22, 2004 by piratesownninjas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrappy1 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 But its cute, your saying that I was implying things while I said that indefinate would be the season... 569591[/snapback] No offense, but the season is not really indefinite...it's 73 more games. Indefinite = having no exact limits; not limiting or specifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 No, I went on to say that Artest would be out the season, but I would like for it to be career ending... Me 2 Hook 0... But its cute, your saying that I was implying things while I said that indefinate would be the season... Oh, and just to save you time hook, lol rofl lmao, lmfao or whatever else stupid abbreviations you have to put in here. 569591[/snapback] go back and check. You said career long suspensions. You said the suspensions would be indefinite. They were. For a day. You also said that Jackson and O'Neal would get indefinite suspensions. Your definition (now) of indefinite, was season long. They didn't. I will admit to being surprised about Artest's penalty. But I'm sure you know, the NBAPA is challenging them. Oh, and here you go. . .lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Artest's actions can not be defended... Steven Jackson going up there and throwing punches as well... Jermain Oneil... it doesnt matter... Life Times bans 565710[/snapback] nope. no life time bans. 3. Maxwell 10 games for getting into a verbal altercation in the stands, Spreewell indefinate suspension for attacking Carlisimo... Attacking fans, at least this year. 565734[/snapback] only Artest got it for this year Jackson and O'Neil, by your standards were not attacked... So how does that work out?I'll bet each and every one of you 50 bucks that there will be three Indefinate suspensions, along with lifetime bans for the fans who fought. 565747[/snapback] Do you need the address to send the 50 bucks, 'cause the suspensions are no longer indefinite. O'Neal (25 games) and Jackson (30) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Artest gone for the year. Good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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