forever in debt to mo lewis Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 hey balzac..sox signed miller to a one year deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 where's this being reported? DirtDogs doesn't seem to have it . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Tom Brady is God. 626910[/snapback]     Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 its on dirtdogs and espn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 got it. nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady12 Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Lots to Josh Gordon through, I was, sigh, working. First off....my Mom is 38 and lives in my basement  Secondly, bag on Tara all you want, I'll take sloppy 783rds from her all day.  Back to Peyton-Brady. Here is what we know:  Fact: Brady has 2 rings and 2 SB MVPs  Fact: Manning has 1 (plus this year) MVPs  Fact: Manning will have shattered season and lifetime records, I don't doubt it  Fact: Manning threw tons of INTs the first few years, Brady didn't  WHAT'S UNKNOWN: Who is better. Raw skills, it's Manning; better arm. Who's smarter? right now it's a landslide in favor of Brady as evidenced by his 4th quaretr comebacks.  Someone mentioned name another choke by Manning except last year's playoffs? well, seeing as he';s missed the playoffs in about half or more of his seasons, that may be hard to do. But how about his ROAD Playoff record? Let's dig up his QB rating and INTs, shall we?  I am fine with this FACT: Some of us would choose Brady to lead our team in January, others would choos Manning. It's OK to be different. But until you get 2 rings, you have no evidence unless you want to sound like Dan Marino fans!!!  In other news, Brady LED THE NFL 2 yrs ago in TD passes, has 24 this year (second in AFC...) and continues to throw out 3,500 yard seasons. Not bad for a "Dilfer". Morons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 I am fine with this FACT: Some of us would choose Brady to lead our team in January, others would choos Manning. It's OK to be different. But until you get 2 rings, you have no evidence unless you want to sound like Dan Marino fans!!!   627113[/snapback]      I didn't read this whole thread, but are you comparing Brady to Marino? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Now, can I ask advice as everyone ignores the advice forums? I'm in the SB and have to choose Favre @ Min or Volek vs Den. i started Volek last week. BOTH should be huge. Who is a better bet to throw for over 300 and have 1 or more TDs for OVER 30 yards? 626342[/snapback]    They are not ignored there, and hijacking a thread in the Pro Football forum is taboo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted the Bellhop Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 I think every player mentioned in this thread is a better QB than every member posting in this thread (and, yes, that includes the defensive players mentioned). Â Â Â Â End of discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted the Bellhop Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Let's hold off on annointing Brady the "next whatever".We don't have access to what is said into that helmet each time a play is called between Weis and Brady. Next year with a different offense coordinator will tell a lot about Brady's abilities. Â 625308[/snapback] Â Â Â Â Most insightful comment I've read up to this point ("this point" being where the original post was made ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted the Bellhop Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Real quick on the Joe Namath in the HOF tip. What QBs were already in the Hall when Broadway Joe was inducted? His stats and SB probably looked a lot more impressive in 1985 than they do post-Marino, Montana, Kelly, Favre, Warner, etc., etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 (edited) WHAT'S UNKNOWN: Who is better. Raw skills, it's Manning; better arm. Who's smarter? right now it's a landslide in favor of Brady as evidenced by his 4th quaretr comebacks. 627113[/snapback]     Uhmm, Peyton has more fourth quarter comebacks. And Manning runs the most complex offense in the NFL and doesn't have to wear a wristband with the plays on it like Brady.  Someone mentioned name another choke by Manning except last year's playoffs? well, seeing as he';s missed the playoffs in about half or more of his seasons, that may be hard to do. But how about his ROAD Playoff record? Let's dig up his QB rating and INTs, shall we?  627113[/snapback]     He has missed the play-offs twice. His rookie year, and the year Edge tore his ACL. That's two out of seven years. Guess what? Brady's missed the play-offs twice too! His rookie year, and 2002. So once again, you have no idea what you are talking about. As for his road play-off record, are you referring to the game winning drive into FG range in OT against Miami, when Vanderjagt missed the FG? Or the disaster at the Meadowlands where the whole team quit on him? Somehow, I don't think you saw either game. Remember, you brought this up:  Brady's first play-off game at HOME New England 16 Oakland 13 OT Brady: 32/52 for 312 yards 0 TD 1 INT 1 rushing TD Who can forget the "Tuck Rule" Game?  Manning's first play-off game at HOME Tennesse 19 Indianapolis 16 Manning: 19/42 227 yards 0 TD 0 INT 1 rushing TD   Brady's second play-off game AT Pittsburgh 17 New England 24 Brady: 12/15 115 yards 0 TD 0 INT Brady left this game due to injury. Patriots scored on a punt return, and a blocked FG return and a TD pass from Bledsoe.  Manning's second play-off game AT Miami 23 Indianapolis 17 OT Manning: 17/32 194 yards 1 TD 0 INT Led the Colts within FG range in OT. Vanderjagt missed it. Colts defense allowed Lamar Smith 209 yards on 40 carries.   Brady's third play-off game Super Bowl XXXVI New England 20 St. Louis 17 Brady: 16-27 145 yards 1 TD 0 INT Brady picks up a MVP trophy that anyone who watches that game knows belongs to Ty Law.  Manning's third play-off game AT N.Y. Jets 41 Indianapolis 0 Manning: 14/31 137 yards 0 TD 2 INT Jets get ball first. Score TD. Colts get ball drive for FG. Vanderjagt misses. Jets take over kick FG. Colts fumble ensuing kick-off. Jets score another TD. Colts are down 17-0. Manning has touched the ball one time. Colts receivers drop 8 balls in that game and fumbled leading to another easy Jet TD. Blame anyone you want to, but that team gave up after the first quarter. Manning's INT's did not come until late second half.   Brady's fourth play-off game HOME New England 17 Tennessee 14 Brady: 21/41 201 yards 1 TD 0 INT  Manning's fourth play-off game HOME Indianapolis 41 Denver 10 Manning: 22/26 377 yards 5 TD 0 INT   Brady's fifth play-off game HOME New England 24 Indianapolis 14 Brady: 22/37 237 yards 1 TD 1 INT  Manning's fifth play-off game AT Kansas City 31 Indianapolis 38 Manning: 22/30 304 yards 3 TD 0 INT   Brady's sixth play-off game Super Bowl XXXVIII New England 32 Carolina 29 Brady: 32/48 354 3 TD 1 INT  Manning's sixth play-off game AT New England 24 Indianapolis 14 Manning: 23/47 237 yards 1 TD 4 INT  Brady has played and won 3 home games and 2 neutral site wins. He has only one road play-off game, and he left that game injured. Manning has played 2 home games going 1-1. He has played 4 road play-off games going 1-3. It really is amazing to see the parallels as each QB grew. Yet Brady's team won, several times in spite of him not making huge plays. Yet Manning did not. Luckily, Brady could rely on extraordinary defense and special teams to help win games. Manning could not. To Brady's credit, when his team needed that FG to win, he got them there. And HIS FG kicker made the kick. So yeah, find me the other game besides #6 where Manning blew it. Now compare Manning and Brady's career stats. You really don't have a clue, brady12, as you've shown throughout this thread. Edited December 23, 2004 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted the Bellhop Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 I hate to butt in, but it looks like Brady's got the better average rating there, so I'm not sure "don't compare" is appropriate. Peyton's INTs killed him his first year. 626404[/snapback]     Peyton was also drafted to be the savior of a team with the 1.1 pick. We all know about Brady's draft position. Some may see that as a plus for Brady in this argument. ("Look he came in with no expectations and now is the best QB in the league"). It's easy to look at Brady today and forget how helpful a year on the bench, out of the limelight is (not to mention a supporting cast that didn't earn the #1 overall pick).  This brings me back around to the year between the Super Bowls. If you've read any of ESPN The Mag's 1,842 stories on Brady since the first Super Bowl, you'd know he wasn't himself that year. The pressure of being the Super Bowl MVP (and all the frills that go with it) got to him. Some may see that as a negative for Brady ("Whiny Rosie O'Donnell! I wish I had those problems, now go win!"). I see it as something he overcame to win SB MVP #2.  The guy's great, hands down. Montana-esque? Not yet. Manning-esque? I say the two are different but equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 common now brady12...you really going to resort to namecalling? Â facts are contextual. they are surrounded by other facts. A. smith also has 2 sb rings. so does the holder and punter. you are still missing the point that manning was asked to do more for his team, hence the early int's. that seemed to correct itself pretty quickly. a coach can only assess talent and use his weapons as they are meant to be used....... while he might be handcuffed in ne's scheme...manning could have attained those rings as well, however i am certain there is no way brady could have had manning's success in indy's offense... Â you say that brady is a "smarter" qb. i wouldn't dispute that he is a bright guy, but are there not different criteria/standards/types of intelligence. brady is in a high % passing attack and makes quick reads once the ball is snapped. Manning is frequently making adjustments on the line and still has to make reads once the ball is snapped. Â as you say brady is 2nd in the AFC in td's......well the guy in 1st has doubled his output and the exact guy we are making comparisons to. Â no one is saying brady is a bad qb...in fact most of us give him praise. it's the hyperbole by NE fans (some) that sparks this debate year after year............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady12 Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Â Manning's first play-off game at HOMEÂ Tennesse 19 Indianapolis 16 Manning: 19/42Â 227 yards 0 TD 0 INT 1 rushing TD Â Manning's third play-off game AT N.Y. Jets 41 Indianapolis 0 Manning: 14/31 137 yards 0 TD 2 INT Â Manning's sixth play-off game AT New England 24 Indianapolis 14 Manning: 23/47 237 yards 1 TD 4 INT Â 627295[/snapback] Â Â Â Â Â CaptainHook, I am VERY impressed at the knowledge/facts you dug up. Sadly thefacts speak for themselves. Yes, Peyton can toss 5 TDs vs the likes of a Denver (bad d last year) or KC....but look at the three duds above. Â I agree, Ty Law (or Vinatieri) deserved SB 36 MVP, and yes I watched...I was there (and I was at SB 38). Â If I have the top FFL pick next year, I take Peyton. If I'm in the NFL playoffs and I'm a head coach, I take Brady. There's no way I can be convinced otherwise. Only guys that compare to him (7-0 in OTs, etc.) were the vintage Favres, Elways and Montanas. CLUTCH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 (edited) but look at the three duds above.  627460[/snapback]     Then you didn't pay attention very well. Brady's first 5 play-off games were "duds", but his team still won despite that. Edited December 23, 2004 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 (edited) Then you didn't pay attention very well. Brady's first 5 play-off games were "duds", but his team still won despite that.  627484[/snapback]     Exactly. He was never asked to carry the load until the second half of the last season's SB. And he threw a critical pick halfway through the fourth quarter that led to a game-tying TD. IMO, Delhomme (20 yds/completion, 3 TDs, 0 INTs) did a better job that game than Brady (11 yds/completion, 3 TDs, 1 INT).  Had Kasay not shanked the kickoff out of bounds late in the 4th, Carolina very well may have won. Edited December 23, 2004 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Tom Brady is God. 626910[/snapback]     In that case, I guess I am an athiest, as I do not believe in him.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 In that case, I guess I am an athiest, as I do not believe in him.   627640[/snapback]      I'm still a Bledsoe guy at heart - he got hosed. Not a big fan of Colosso-Nerd Brady, but he did "lead" the squad to 2 SBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Not a big fan of Colosso-Nerd Brady, but he did "lead" the squad to 2 SBs. 627898[/snapback]     Change "lead" to "follow" and we can agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Change "lead" to "follow" and we can agree.  627938[/snapback]     fair enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady12 Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Stunned to see PATS fans pining for Bledsoe. Look, I was a Drew fan and still have a Drew jersey (in mothballs...) but seriously, Drew was cut from the same cloth as Marino and Manning - pocket passers, statues if you will, with great arms. BUT I will say he was waaay inferior than Manning and Marino because he was a lock for the critical INT.  Brady was a 6th round pick. At Michigan, Griese was ahead of him as starter and then the whole (dumb) state wanted Drew Henson  I hated Henson. He is another DUMB QB IMO, and this will be proven out if he ever has an NFL career. I also saw plenty of Navarre and can say he too was made decent by great WRs. Brady was different. Watch the Orange Bowl vs Alabama from 2000 or the Penn State comeback in 1999. You saw that Brady was SMART and special.  I wish Drew well, and no athlete has EVER left Boston with more class. He is a hero in many ways, but I seriously question the football mind of ANYONE that would choose Bledsoe over Brady. If you asked NFL coaches, it would be 32-0. If you ask fans from other states outside New England and Washington it's 99% pro Brady. Yet loyalists who only remember 500 yard games and 5 TD passes vs the likes of Miami or Minnesota will still choose Bledsoe. CRAZY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 (edited) I wish Drew well, and no athlete has EVER left Boston with more class. He is a hero in many ways, but I seriously question the football mind of ANYONE that would choose Bledsoe over Brady. If you asked NFL coaches, it would be 32-0. If you ask fans from other states outside New England and Washington it's 99% pro Brady. Yet loyalists who only remember 500 yard games and 5 TD passes vs the likes of Miami or Minnesota will still choose Bledsoe. CRAZY 628069[/snapback]     Who said they'd take Drew over Brady? I just liked him better b/c I think Brady's a giant tool. The guy gets on my nerves, but he's obviously been a better fit for the Pats. Edited December 23, 2004 by Balzac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeegiebo Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 I think Brady's a giant tool. The guy gets on my nerves 628087[/snapback]     Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Exactly. 628107[/snapback]     I can't put my finger on it, but he's the type of guy you'd see at a bar and be like, "I can't stand that guy . . . I don't even know him, but I know I can't stand him."  Way I see it - Brady's more of a Cosmopolitan drinker, while Drew would belly up and order 3 Guinesses. I can dig the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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