kcmast Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 But Houston could get a solid RB in Ricky with Morency & Wells as back-ups. They can then draft Young #1 and still have Miami's #1 for O-Line or D help. Plus if they could trade DD they could probably get picks or someone to help the O-line or D as well. Now I don't know all of the salary cap information with the two teams, but I don't see how this hurts Houston at all. They get a possible stud QB, a proven RB (with baggage no doubt) and an extra 1st round pick. Plus whatever they could get for DD. If they don't do this trade (if it will even be offered - I know this is just rumor now) they would get Bush, still have Carr, and then have to get O-line/D help somewhere else without the extra 1st rounder they could get from Miami. 1270458[/snapback] Good thing I kept reading because I was going to say the same thing. If Houston could pull that off they would be sitting nice. OL at #15 and with their 2nd round pick would have to land at least 1 starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Seems like a lot for the Dolphins to be giving up.Let the draft rumors begin. 1270270[/snapback] i agree. I think Carr is going to be a good QB, but Ricky, who they could easily keep very cheaply, or get some serious value for, AND a first rounder for him seems excessive... plus I predicted Ricky to CAR in the off season, so it's OBVIOUSLY not true. I mean, if i predicted, it MUST be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Miami wants no part of Ricky for the long haul, so its like giving up the #16 pick for Carr, which is very reasonable imo. I do not see Houston doing this to tell you the truth. Vince at #1 would be great, but HOuston needs OL, more than another RB. Wells and Morencey did a decent job in Davis absence, and its much easier to get a solid RB, than a proven OL. If Im Houston, I want the #1 and a solid OL for Carr, then use the Miami #1 pick to help their ragged defense. 1270411[/snapback] this is not true. It's not like giving up a 1st, just because they dont want Ricky. They could get serious value for Ricky. Or even keep him at a very cheap salary. I could see a first for Carr, and while I don't agree with it, I couldn't criticize the Phins for doing it, but throwing Ricky in is retarded. If I'm HOU, i'd jump all over this trade like a french hooker. Ricky, Vince, and still another 1st rounder? that's aces for '06 and beyond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Oh, but if I was Miami I would go a different route.Either by drafting a QB or going after Matt Schaub. 1270614[/snapback] there's about a zero % chance Schaub goes anywhere. Schaub is one of the 5 most important players on that team. Especially if Vickyboy gets hurt. Not to mention Vick's stock has PLUMMETED after his showing of his lack of heart, and abiltiy to win games anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Yea, Atlanta has already said that Schaub ain't going anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Miami wants no part of Ricky for the long haul, so its like giving up the #16 pick for Carr, which is very reasonable imo. I do not see Houston doing this to tell you the truth. Vince at #1 would be great, but HOuston needs OL, more than another RB. Wells and Morencey did a decent job in Davis absence, and its much easier to get a solid RB, than a proven OL. If Im Houston, I want the #1 and a solid OL for Carr, then use the Miami #1 pick to help their ragged defense. 1270411[/snapback] Yep, this is right on the money. Houston needs to bring in a couple of free agents to help with the O-line, and work on a couple of draft picks for the D-line. I've heard to many questions about the top O-lineman in the draft projected this year out of Virginia, D-Brickashaw (or something like that). It makes more sense to bring in a couple of proven veterans. The real key is bringing in a quality O-line coach that can teach them to block. Kubiak may want to run a similar Denver system, but until they get the right coaches in place, it just isn't going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 If there is a first involved, we better get a 2 or 3rd in return Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Cheezhead Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Give this a rest. First of all, Kubiak is already endorsing Carr; I doubt he would accept the job if he was told he'd have to coach Vince Young. Second, and more importantly, there's no way the Dolphins will be acquiring ANY QB until Scott Linehan's future is known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatman Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Man, I hope this happens (although I don't see it). I've got Ronnie Brown and Carr in my dynasty and this would help IMMENSELY... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatman Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 this is not true. It's not like giving up a 1st, just because they dont want Ricky. They could get serious value for Ricky. Or even keep him at a very cheap salary. 1270746[/snapback] I wouldn't say serious value...the guy is only one slip up away from being suspended again. He'd proved that he can still play, but I don't see his value as being that high. Any picks for him would have to be conditional, I would assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatman Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Or even keep him at a very cheap salary. 1270746[/snapback] I'd agree with this, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I can't see Miami making this deal. Trading a 2nd rounder for Feeley was a colossal blunder, so I'm sure Saban will be much more careful about dealing their draft picks. I think Carr would be a major upgrade over Frerotte, and I'd be happy to see him in a Phins uniform, but not at that price. Plus, Ricky has a lot of value IMO. Given how many top RBs have been getting injured (Deuce, Priest, Ahman, etc.), any team would love to have a durable guy like Ricky, and I believe they'd pay a nice price for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egret Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 The Lions will trade Joey Harrington to the Phins for a 2nd rounder and Ricky. We'll even throw in a side of Charles Rogers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 The Lions will trade Joey Harrington to the Phins for a 2nd rounder and Ricky. We'll even throw in a side of Charles Rogers. 1271581[/snapback] SOLD!!! Saban will turn that ballerina you all call a QB into a man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbmcdonald Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 this is not true. It's not like giving up a 1st, just because they dont want Ricky. They could get serious value for Ricky. Or even keep him at a very cheap salary. 1270746[/snapback] I disagree with this. There is no way phins get serious value for Ricky. First, career expectancy for RBs is the shortest of all positions in the NFL (4 to 5 year average), much shorter than QBs, then you add to that the additional Ricky baggage. If they get a deal that works financially, and some value, they do it. Carr was a #1 pick only 4 years ago. More than one QB has been taken #1 that has been a total flop. 8 QBs were taken #1 in the 20 years prior to Carr. Vick, Couch, Manning, Bledsoe, George, Aikman, Testaverde & Elway. Of the 8, I say only 3 are clearly better than Carr. Also, at least with Carr you do not yet know if you have a QB that is going to always fold in the play-offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Wings Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 If Feely was worth a 2nd surely Carr is worth a 1st. 1270562[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giants56 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Don't overrate Ricky Williams value. It's been proven that in this day and age RBs don't have monster value in trades. Add to that several quality free agents, a couple other backs on the trade market and 4 highly ranked backs in the draft (that I know of: Bush, White, Williams, Maroney) and you have a situation where I don't think his trade value will be real high with other options available, his age and risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I wouldn't say serious value...the guy is only one slip up away from being suspended again. He'd proved that he can still play, but I don't see his value as being that high. Any picks for him would have to be conditional, I would assume. 1271219[/snapback] I disagree with this. There is no way phins get serious value for Ricky. First, career expectancy for RBs is the shortest of all positions in the NFL (4 to 5 year average), much shorter than QBs, then you add to that the additional Ricky baggage. If they get a deal that works financially, and some value, they do it. Carr was a #1 pick only 4 years ago. More than one QB has been taken #1 that has been a total flop. 8 QBs were taken #1 in the 20 years prior to Carr. Vick, Couch, Manning, Bledsoe, George, Aikman, Testaverde & Elway. Of the 8, I say only 3 are clearly better than Carr. Also, at least with Carr you do not yet know if you have a QB that is going to always fold in the play-offs. 1271812[/snapback] Don't overrate Ricky Williams value.It's been proven that in this day and age RBs don't have monster value in trades. Add to that several quality free agents, a couple other backs on the trade market and 4 highly ranked backs in the draft (that I know of: Bush, White, Williams, Maroney) and you have a situation where I don't think his trade value will be real high with other options available, his age and risk. 1272892[/snapback] You guys have some valid points. Perhaps he wouldn't be worth what I was thinking, but he would definitely fetch something worthwhile. To throw him away is asinine. MIA might get the most value simply keeping him with that huge settlement he owes, and/or working for minimum wage... I think to a team like CAR, that will not get a high draft pick, but needs a valid starting, can-stay-mother-f'ing-healthy RB, he'd fetch a nice chunk of something. Perhaps a late 2nd rounder...not sure Fox is willing to gamble on the "Ricky factor" though. Actually, now with IND not gonna win the SB, Edge is more likely to be a free agent, perhaps Fox would grab him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I disagree with this. There is no way phins get serious value for Ricky. First, career expectancy for RBs is the shortest of all positions in the NFL (4 to 5 year average), much shorter than QBs, then you add to that the additional Ricky baggage. If they get a deal that works financially, and some value, they do it. Carr was a #1 pick only 4 years ago. More than one QB has been taken #1 that has been a total flop. 8 QBs were taken #1 in the 20 years prior to Carr. Vick, Couch, Manning, Bledsoe, George, Aikman, Testaverde & Elway. Of the 8, I say only 3 are clearly better than Carr. Also, at least with Carr you do not yet know if you have a QB that is going to always fold in the play-offs. 1271812[/snapback] just out of curiousity(sp.?) .....only 3 of these better than Carr???Which 3 would that be??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebdog Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Carr sucks. He obviously doesn't have the best supporting cast and gets pressured like no one else, but after four years what has he shown? Ya, he looks like the prototypical QB, but I've yet to see it translate into anything of value. Can he even read a defense or look-off his receivers? Has one player ever been given so much time to show his worth? Even I could get the ball to Andre Johnson more than he does. (Yes, i have AJ in my dynasty league) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbmcdonald Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 just out of curiousity(sp.?) .....only 3 of these better than Carr???Which 3 would that be??? 1272970[/snapback] First the statement was based on the assumption that the QBs that are still active, have full careers that more or less track what they have done to date. The three? Manning, Aikman & Elway. Ultimately you have to wonder how history will assess Manning’s value to his team, if he is never able to win in the play-offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziachild007 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Carr sucks. He obviously doesn't have the best supporting cast and gets pressured like no one else, but after four years what has he shown? Ya, he looks like the prototypical QB, but I've yet to see it translate into anything of value. Can he even read a defense or look-off his receivers? Has one player ever been given so much time to show his worth? Even I could get the ball to Andre Johnson more than he does. (Yes, i have AJ in my dynasty league) 1273481[/snapback] For one, he has shown that he is one tough SOB and is very persistant. Its really hard to see any success when he is having to run for his life the whole time and rarely has a chance to play with a lead. Yes, he can read a defense, but doesn't look off his receivers because he rarely has a chance to look that far down field due to the pressure he gets. Joey Harrington has recieved just as much time to prove his worth as Carr has. If you can do such a great job, what are you doing wasting your time on a football message board. GO GET AN AGENT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 First the statement was based on the assumption that the QBs that are still active, have full careers that more or less track what they have done to date. The three? Manning, Aikman & Elway. Ultimately you have to wonder how history will assess Manning’s value to his team, if he is never able to win in the play-offs. 1274123[/snapback] This is a ridiculous statement looking at that group. Bledsoe, Testaverde and Vick are clearly superior QBs compared to Carr to date. Testaverde is 6th all time in pass attempts, completions, and Pa Yards, and 8th all time in pass TDs. Bledsoe is 5th all time in attempts, completions, 7th all time in yards, and 13th all time in TDs, plus he's still active. Vick has actually QB'd his team to a winning record, made the playoffs, and won playoff games. Carr will never even sniff Bledsoe or Testaverde's numbers, and at this rate it's unlikely he will ever sniff a winning record as a qB or the playoffs. The only thing he has on Tim Couch is that he hasn't finished his rookie contract yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 For one, he has shown that he is one tough SOB and is very persistant. Its really hard to see any success when he is having to run for his life the whole time and rarely has a chance to play with a lead. Yes, he can read a defense, but doesn't look off his receivers because he rarely has a chance to look that far down field due to the pressure he gets. Joey Harrington has recieved just as much time to prove his worth as Carr has. If you can do such a great job, what are you doing wasting your time on a football message board. GO GET AN AGENT! 1274196[/snapback] Now this I can get behind. Carr could possibly be a successful Qb in different circumstances. Let's actually see him do that before someone starts putting him in the category of some of the NFL's all time passing leaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 This is a ridiculous statement looking at that group. Bledsoe, Testaverde and Vick are clearly superior QBs compared to Carr to date. Testaverde is 6th all time in pass attempts, completions, and Pa Yards, and 8th all time in pass TDs. Bledsoe is 5th all time in attempts, completions, 7th all time in yards, and 13th all time in TDs, plus he's still active. Vick has actually QB'd his team to a winning record, made the playoffs, and won playoff games. Carr will never even sniff Bledsoe or Testaverde's numbers, and at this rate it's unlikely he will ever sniff a winning record as a qB or the playoffs. The only thing he has on Tim Couch is that he hasn't finished his rookie contract yet. 1274235[/snapback] my thoughts exactly when I read the first idiotic statement... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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