Rovers Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I know two people who did this, the second one very recently. After some deep soul searching, I realised that I had no blame in it, but carried guilt nonetheless. It was that person's decision, not mine. People often seem to punish themselves when faced with such a loss. Finally, I've been able to not only rid myself of the guilt of thinking I had not done enough, but also realised that in the end, it may not have been the worst possible option for the person who wanted to cut their life short. The judgement that what they did was wrong was the source of my feelings of guilt. If I forget my values for a moment, who was I to judge what they did was wrong? I didn't know what it was like, what it meant to be .... that person. Only they could know that..... and the pain that became unbearable to them. So, I throw this one out there.... on the off chance that it might help someone else if they know someone who chose this as a final option. The first step in forgiving them is to refuse to judge them. Then, realise you aren't a super power, you did not have any control, and therefore realise that feelings of guilt are simply part of the greiving process. I haven't been around much, and this topic is part of the reason why. Bummer thread.... I know. Sorry about that, but if one other Huddler can use what I went through recently, and it helps, it's worth taking some pot shots for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Nice post Rovers. Good to hear from you again. Sorry about your experience, sounds like you are getting things figured out though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFFFreak Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 (edited) Good topic. Without having ever been very close to someone who has actually committed suicide (I have known a few, but not close and a couple personal that have made failed attempts) I know my reaction to it is that it is extremely selfish. The only exception is someone who is termanally ill, in severe pain and says their proper good-byes. There is help out there. I know there are many who are very damaged mentally for one reason or another, but I would argue that most people who commit this act have not gotten the proper help they need. I don't blame them for their decision as I understand that they cannot help how they feel and hence feel "helpless". However, if they have an iota of sense about them they should know that there is help out there. The internet has only raised awareness and helped for those who don't know where to start. And know that, unless you were the person who abused that person in a significant way at some point in their life, you should feel no blame. I know that you feel how you feel and cannot help that. but when you start to think about it and get some time away from it you need to realize, as you seem to have done, that it really isn't your fault. You cannot carry that around with you the rest of your life. Another reason why it's such a selfish act. Edited February 3, 2006 by TDFFFreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I know two people who did this, the second one very recently. After some deep soul searching, I realised that I had no blame in it, but carried guilt nonetheless. It was that person's decision, not mine. People often seem to punish themselves when faced with such a loss. Finally, I've been able to not only rid myself of the guilt of thinking I had not done enough, but also realised that in the end, it may not have been the worst possible option for the person who wanted to cut their life short. The judgement that what they did was wrong was the source of my feelings of guilt. If I forget my values for a moment, who was I to judge what they did was wrong? I didn't know what it was like, what it meant to be .... that person. Only they could know that..... and the pain that became unbearable to them. So, I throw this one out there.... on the off chance that it might help someone else if they know someone who chose this as a final option. The first step in forgiving them is to refuse to judge them. Then, realise you aren't a super power, you did not have any control, and therefore realise that feelings of guilt are simply part of the greiving process. I haven't been around much, and this topic is part of the reason why. Bummer thread.... I know. Sorry about that, but if one other Huddler can use what I went through recently, and it helps, it's worth taking some pot shots for. 1302106[/snapback] So sorry to hear this Rovers. It seems you have come to grips with it yet im sure it still weighs on you..We are here if you need anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziachild007 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Dang bud, sorry to hear about this. Not only for the persons who this happened to, but especially for you and any others that were close to them. I know a few people who have taken their lives before it was their time to go. And to be honest, the people I know did it for different reasons. Some were hurting physically and could not bear the everyday grind. Others were simply feeling emotional pain, but they too could not stand the pain. You or anyone in your position should not feel guilt, becasue something like this has happened. Like you said it was that persons choice and more than likely no amount of talking to was going to change their mind. Like you said it is easy for others to judge their actions once the act has been done. But we do not and can not understand what is going on in these people's lifes and what their thinking is. But, that being said, I personally think it takes so much more strength and courage for a person to live through the hard times, than it does for them to take their own life. Once again, sorry about your loss and you know how to find me if ya need me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 my obsession thread on suicide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I sympathise with ya Rovers. 2 cousins and a VERY close Highschool friend. I actually think Jim's death(highschool friend) was far more traumatic for me. Happend shortly after we graduated. He was epileptic and just couldnt deal with the seizures any more. I always think about him whenever we start talking about the old days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I'm sorry Rovers but it is good to see you here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Rovers, you, your friend, and his family will be in my prayers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrobn26 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Glad to see you back my very good friend. I'm gonna let this pot steep a little till I comment. I have some not so nice stuff going on right now and until I chill, my comments will be less than well thought out! Peace my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 glad to see you around, rovers. thanks for the words, too. i think the stuff about forgiveness and refusing to judge has universal application in how we learn to love others and come to grips with their shortcomings (or what we perceive to be their shortcomings). your example brings it home. good luck, man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 (edited) Yup. My favorite uncle clocked out when I was in junior high school. Brilliant guy. Eagle scout. Admitted to UC Berekely on scholarship. Just couldn't take the constant, unforgiving, and unrealistic pressure put upon him by his sadistic, buttplug of an alchohalic/addict father (my step-grand father). So my uncle killed himself by OD'ing with his dad's pain meds. I never blamed or judged my uncle; just missed him. Still do. Though, I do harbor a lot of resentment towards my (now deceased) step grandfather. That man wrought a pathy of misery that befouled all in its wake. That experience followed closely on the heels, by a matter of weeks, of my other grandfather being murdered. Pretty rough patch for me. Edited February 3, 2006 by yo mama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 So sorry to hear this Rovers. It seems you have come to grips with it yet im sure it still weighs on you..We are here if you need anything. 1302120[/snapback] Yeah, what he said. It seems many of the folks here have experience of suicide. You're in the right place for good people to share with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 (edited) do you think that if these people could see the pain that they caused, they would feel bad and wish they hadnt.....or was it a reason they did do it...hence the selfish explanation. Edited February 3, 2006 by dmarc117 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFFFreak Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 (edited) do you think that if these people could see the pain that they caused, they would feel bad or was it a reason they did do it...hence the selfish explanation. 1302210[/snapback] I think many of the people who commit an act of suicide generally do not or can't think of those that they will hurt. Maybe if they knew, it would change but that may come with the therapy that I am recommending that they get. Messy, fuzzy emotional thinking is usually what leads them to suicide in the first place. Edited February 3, 2006 by TDFFFreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sores Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 my obsession thread on suicide 1302126[/snapback] Yup....I am saddly intimately familiar with this subject. I was pretty open about it in this previous thread....if you have any other questions, or whatever, pm me. In the meantime, good luck and stay strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Bill Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I admire your courage in speaking out Rovers, and it sounds like you've begun the road to healing. I know I've mentioned before my brother committed suicide when I was 20. He shot himself in the head. He had tried 3 other times previous to that attempt over the course of my childhood. I can remember being quite young the 1st time he tried, and as a result, he was institutionalized at St. Charles Hospital in Toledo, OH. That would have been in the late 60's. I remember him telling me that he had to endure shock therapy. You know, bite down on the rubber strap, while they zap the hell out of you. And I know on some level he blamed my parents for that. He was never the same after that. Still, in many ways he was a good man. I can remember him visiting people in nursing homes, just so they would have someone to talk to. To this day I believe he was bipolar, but knowledge of that condition by the medical field back then either didn't exist, or wasn't detected by the doctors he saw. The month before he shot himself, he was giving clear signals that he was about to try to kill himself again. Isolation, erratic behavior, there's nothing to live for...that kinda' stuff. But no matter how much any of us spoke with him, it was already too late. He had withdrawn too far within himself to come out of it. And based on his previous experience with shock therapy, he had no trust for doctors or professional help. After the fact, I think all of us shared guilt. You always question what you could have done that might have made a difference. 27 years later I still miss him. He was my only brother. But now I'm left with the feeling that it wasn't my, or anyone else's fault in my family for what happened. I still feel sad that someone who was a very kind and caring person, had to leave this world in such a tragic way. And if the knowledge of mental illness that exists today, was present back then, he'd probably still be with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_bone65 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I have been there as well with my brother, that story is in my obsession thread as well. You will be in my thoughts and prayers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Good post Rovers. Thanks for sharing... hope to see you around more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Yes, my brother in law. I wasn't close as lived far away but did send out warnings to relatives that they didn't sense. That was very hard on them and many did feel guilty. Taking your life always hurts those around you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apathy Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I'm sorry for your loss Rovers. It's been years since I had to deal with the loss of somebody to suicide, but I still remember having strong feelings of anger and sadness about the act and the loss. It sounds like you have come to grips with some feelings and I wish you and everyone involved best wishes and prayers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Sorry for your loss Rovers. That is perhaps the most difficult loss to deal with. All our thoughts are with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Sorry Rovers. I've had 2 close friends call it quits. One, my roomate/friend/bandmate while in the air force decided to drink drano. He lived for 2 weeks in critical condition then died. The other mixed pain killers with alcohol. Very sad and hard to identify warning signs in some cases. I know you will find the strength to make it through. Take care. brent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Finally, I've been able to not only rid myself of the guilt of thinking I had not done enough, but also realised that in the end, it may not have been the worst possible option for the person who wanted to cut their life short. The judgement that what they did was wrong was the source of my feelings of guilt. If I forget my values for a moment, who was I to judge what they did was wrong? I didn't know what it was like, what it meant to be .... that person. Only they could know that..... and the pain that became unbearable to them. 1302106[/snapback] I'm glad that you came to the realization that it wasn't your fault. Thinking that you can stop someone from making that choice is not a good thing to do. Those that wish to end their life are going to do so no matter what influence is applied from the outside. As you pointed out... one has no idea what it is like to be that person. I've been very close to two people that have made that choice. Guilt never entered into it for me... but anger sure did. At least for awhile. Then, like you, I realized that it was their choice. Now it is just sadness. It's tough my friend. But keep in mind that you are part of the Huddle community and that we are here for you through thick and thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrobn26 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 So sorry for your loss, my friend. I lost a cousin to suicide 25+ years ago. He was, if I recall around 19yo. There's no explaining it, but a loss none the less. It seems as if you have come to grips with the situation and that is good. Keep the memories and let go of the anger and guilt. Peace, my very good friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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