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Vick Indicted

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If only this were predictable from the information known weeks ago. Had we only been able to extrapolate the future from the known facts we might have seen this coming. Too bad no one had the foresight to break down that information, analysis it as a criminal case, and predict this. Of course who could have done such a thing?

 

Had it been done I am certain no one would have continued to blindly sniff Vick jock or to have taken refuge, insultingly, in cliche`s about presumption of innocence or the like.

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A prosecutor will generall attempt to gain an indictment on the least amount of evidence as possible....that way they have a real strong case when it comes to the plea bargain game. That being said, Grand Jury testimony is sealed and secretive simply because damn near anything is admissable...even stuff a trial judge may throw out. And there is still one wrinkle that is interesting. Vick had to be offered the opportunity to go in front of the Grand Jury and state his case....however....if he would have done that he would have been open to the prosecutor being able to question him with much looser rules regarding objections from defense counsel. The fact he chose not to go isn't necessarily a guilt proving act....but it means his attorney felt it wasn't in his best interest. So you have that scenario as well.
I seem to remember another recent legal case where a prosecutor was able to get an indictment, albeit in state court, against a few other athletes. That grand jury apparently saw some compelling evidence against those guys too to return the indictment. Except for any real evidence was thrown out, disproved, or made otherwise worthless as to what really happened.

 

I'm not saying that there are similarities between Vick and the Duke lacrosse players (I personally think Vick is guilty and knew exactly what was going on and participated in it). I'm just using that as an example as to how skewed a grand jury indictment can be when only one side gets to argue their point.

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This is going to be an off-season that the Falcons will never forget. But at least they did secure Joey Harrington so they are not completely without a fallback. Schaub may be considered to have great potential but he did not know the new offensive scheme being installed and he hasn't really done all that much in his ever so brief appearances in Atlanta so far. I had previously said that I thought Vick would manage to get through this situation without any long-term or even real short-term effects but it appears I was wrong on that. A federal indictment isn't made lightly and as has been mentioned before, the last thing you want to be is the highest profile guy involved with something like this because then you become the trophy kill for the litigators. But it's also impossible to feel badly for Vick in any way, even if his involvement is at the lowest possible level because he simply did all this to himself.

 

It makes me wonder what Petrino is thinking now since he left his position of great success in college in order to inherit what will continue to be the biggest headache in the league. And I do feel badly for the Falcon fans and players because this will be the focus of the media until it is completely resolved. It is a sad day for all Falcons and I hope it comes to some conclusion quickly. Godell is going to drop the hammer on this one, he has to after what he already did to other players who were not indicted by the feds.

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The measure of a mans character is the people he surrounds himself with.

 

You can dispute the fine legal details about this situation all day long, but the writing is on the wall for Mike Vick's character. And defending it at this point says a lot about the character of the defender.

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I seem to remember another recent legal case where a prosecutor was able to get an indictment, albeit in state court, against a few other athletes. That grand jury apparently saw some compelling evidence against those guys too to return the indictment. Except for any real evidence was thrown out, disproved, or made otherwise worthless as to what really happened.

 

I'm not saying that there are similarities between Vick and the Duke lacrosse players (I personally think Vick is guilty and knew exactly what was going on and participated in it). I'm just using that as an example as to how skewed a grand jury indictment can be when only one side gets to argue their point.

 

You're not saying there are any similarities? Then why bring that up as a point of comparison?

 

There's a huge difference between a local prosecutor with a clear political agenda and the evidence being available for public consumption being immediately shaky right from the onset; and a federal case where evidence presented left little doubt that a crime had occurred, and also no doubt that Vick was connected to the venue. We won't even go into the local prosecutor's dragging of his feet in the case and the pointed implications of racism by him in the Feds going after Vick.

 

That you even sought to make any comparison between the two would indicate to me that you need to make yourself a bit more educated on each case.

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If only this were predictable from the information known weeks ago. Had we only been able to extrapolate the future from the known facts we might have seen this coming. Too bad no one had the foresight to break down that information, analysis it as a criminal case, and predict this. Of course who could have done such a thing?

 

Had it been done I am certain no one would have continued to blindly sniff Vick jock or to have taken refuge, insultingly, in cliche`s about presumption of innocence or the like.

 

:D

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:D

 

I'm pretty sure that is what the person I traded Crumpler to 3 weeks ago in my dynasty league is thinking......

 

(whew!)

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This is going to be an off-season that the Falcons will never forget. But at least they did secure Joey Harrington so they are not completely without a fallback. Schaub may be considered to have great potential but he did not know the new offensive scheme being installed and he hasn't really done all that much in his ever so brief appearances in Atlanta so far. I had previously said that I thought Vick would manage to get through this situation without any long-term or even real short-term effects but it appears I was wrong on that. A federal indictment isn't made lightly and as has been mentioned before, the last thing you want to be is the highest profile guy involved with something like this because then you become the trophy kill for the litigators. But it's also impossible to feel badly for Vick in any way, even if his involvement is at the lowest possible level because he simply did all this to himself.

 

It makes me wonder what Petrino is thinking now since he left his position of great success in college in order to inherit what will continue to be the biggest headache in the league. And I do feel badly for the Falcon fans and players because this will be the focus of the media until it is completely resolved. It is a sad day for all Falcons and I hope it comes to some conclusion quickly. Godell is going to drop the hammer on this one, he has to after what he already did to other players who were not indicted by the feds.

 

Yeah, I do feel bad for Atlanta fans. This has all the makings of a disastrous losing season for the Falcons.

 

The Falcons need to distance themselves from this immediately IMO. There has to be a way to suspend Vick with pay or some such so that he is not at camp or playing until the issue is resolved. This will be a hugh distraction for the players.

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Yeah, I do feel bad for Atlanta fans. This has all the makings of a disastrous losing season for the Falcons.

 

The Falcons need to distance themselves from this immediately IMO. There has to be a way to suspend Vick with pay or some such so that he is not at camp or playing until the issue is resolved. This will be a hugh distraction for the players.

 

I agree they should cut and run fast, but I wonder if they won't wait and see if the league won't drop the hammer first.

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Yeah, I do feel bad for Atlanta fans. This has all the makings of a disastrous losing season for the Falcons.

 

The Falcons need to distance themselves from this immediately IMO. There has to be a way to suspend Vick with pay or some such so that he is not at camp or playing until the issue is resolved. This will be a hugh distraction for the players.

 

I think you are right and that is one of the most interesting tacts on this - the Falcons need to decide their course of action ASAP just to get back to business. They cannot allow this to be any more of a distraction than it will be. But it appears to be moving quickly, more so than anyone expected. This could not come at a worse time really, right before camp will open and the Falcons have to learn their new scheme. Blank is on his way back from Africa according to one article and I would suspect that a decision will be made very fast to at least set this issue to the side of the team just in the interest of the other 52 players that will be on the roster (or will it be 53?). I would expect that Vick at the least will be suspended somehow by the team and he will not be in camp which is huge given the new offense being installed.

 

Owens was a media circus last year but he was a nit compared to Vick getting a federal indictment. This will be cause celebre until the season starts.

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Owens was a media circus last year but he was a nit compared to Vick getting a federal indictment. This will be cause celebre until the season starts.

 

Yeah, this is huge. This is a PR nightmare now for the league and the Falcons, and the quicker they can whisk him away the better.

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Looks like I'm not going to have to haul the kids up to the Vikes game one this season to watch that most exciting player in the NFL. Assuming the wife would even allow the kids to watch a dog killa, that is.

 

That was the one game that would've been a "must go" to for the last few years, maybe since the last time Vick was in town. We were at that game when Vick ran in a TD in OT. Luckily we escaped the Metrodome unscathed since the Kid had his Vick jersey on and was celebrating the play.

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I'm really disappointed in ESPN's coverage of the Vick fiasco. Talk about sniffing jock straps. That about covers it. The fact that they continue to say that he shouldn't be suspended is alarming.

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I just wanted the privelage to post in this thread. Nothing good to add just like 95% of the posts in here. :D

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I had previously said that I thought Vick would manage to get through this situation without any long-term or even real short-term effects but it appears I was wrong on that. A federal indictment isn't made lightly and as has been mentioned before, the last thing you want to be is the highest profile guy involved with something like this because then you become the trophy kill for the litigators.

 

Yep, I had sincerely thought that Vick wouldn't end up feeling the heat on this whole deal... but with a felony indictment before a Federal Grand Jury, my new assumption is that he is toast.

 

At some point you have to think now that Vick is going to miss playing time because of this... which is bad for him no matter how the Falcons do in his absence. If Vick misses playing time and the Falcons stink, then it's his fault for allowing his off-field douchebaggery get in the way of the team's success. If Vick misses playing time and the Falcons do well, then they will have proven that they don't need him anymore.

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I'm really disappointed in ESPN's coverage of the Vick fiasco. Talk about sniffing jock straps. That about covers it. The fact that they continue to say that he shouldn't be suspended is alarming.

 

I saw a quick clip of Len Pasquarelli talking about Vick... the tone was disturbing... it was as if he was saying that Vick will be a hero to be able to overcome this "adversity" in the upcoming season. :D

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I'm really disappointed in ESPN's coverage of the Vick fiasco. Talk about sniffing jock straps. That about covers it. The fact that they continue to say that he shouldn't be suspended is alarming.

:D

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If you want to hear the right story, turn on Colin Cowherd right now. He's been ripping away like a chainsaw.

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A good legal summary from ESPN. IMO, Vick is screwed. Am I lawyer? No. But I play one on TV...

 

A grand jury indicted Atlanta Falcons' quarterback Michael Vick on Tuesday, which at least partially answers one question that has lingered since the news first broke about an alleged dogfighting operation on property owned by Vick in Virginia: Was Vick involved? Obviously, we know now that investigators believe he was.

 

There are plenty of football-related issues still to be resolved about Vick's future with the Falcons and the NFL, but those might be the least of his concerns right now. Questions about his legal future abound at the moment. Here are some answers.

 

What do these federal charges mean for Michael Vick?

 

Vick is in real trouble. He is up against the might and majesty of the U.S. government with all of its agents, all of its investigative techniques, and all of its skilled prosecutors. If he has any doubts about the power and skill of the forces arrayed against him, he can call Scooter Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Cheney, or he can call Lord Conrad Black, the disgraced media mogul now facing time in a federal penitentiary. If he still isn't convinced, he can call Jeff Skilling, the zillionaire Enron CEO who is now residing in a federal pen. All three of them hired brilliant (and expensive) lawyers. All three thought they could explain their way out from under federal charges. And all three were convicted. Vick can, and probably will, hire some of America's best defense lawyers, but they will face a serious battle.

 

Would Vick be sent to jail if he is convicted?

 

Yes. It's hard to imagine any other outcome. The charges are serious, and the evidence against Vick presented at trial will be nasty. The government's case includes evidence that Vick and his cohorts "tested" pit bulls for ferocity. If the dogs failed the test, the indictment charges, they were executed by hanging or drowning. In one case, with Vick present, the indictment says a dog was slammed to the ground until it was dead. In another incident, a dog was soaked with a hose and then electrocuted. Those aren't the sort of transgressions that lead to probation and community service. It's the kind of behavior that results in punishment, and the punishment will be jail time.

 

What is the next step for Vick?

 

Vick will now watch to see which of his three co-defendants will be the first to make a deal with federal prosecutors. Each of them will think seriously about turning on Vick and offering testimony against him in return for less time in jail. Vick obviously is the prime target of the government effort. Prosecutors and agents will be willing to talk with his co-defendants about a deal if they are willing to help prove the case against Vick. The government indictment discloses four witnesses who have already agreed to testify against him. If all three of his co-defendants join these four witnesses against Vick, he and his lawyers might suggest that he, too, should talk to the government about a deal that would minimize his time in jail.

 

Vick is charged with "conspiracy" and violations of the "Travel Act." What does that mean?

 

The conspiracy charge will make things extra difficult for Vick and his lawyers. Under federal laws, the conspiracy charge allows federal prosecutors to link Vick to things that occurred even if he was not present. If the prosecutors can connect the four defendants, then crimes committed by one of them can be used to add to the evidence against the others. It's a tricky legal procedure that prosecutors love and defense lawyers detest. The Travel Act is a device invented by Robert F. Kennedy when he was Attorney General in the early '60s. It was designed for use against organized crime and made it easier to prove cases against hoodlums. In the sports world, it was used most recently in the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics bribery scandal. Federal prosecutors charged the Utah organizers under the Travel Act and proved millions of dollars in bribes. Vick, however, can take some hope from the fact that U.S. District Judge David Sam found the organizers not guilty of violating the Travel Act, even though there was powerful evidence of bribery.

 

What was Vick's role in the dogfighting conspiracy described in the indictment?

 

According to the indictment, Vick was in the middle of everything from beginning to end. He purchased a vacant piece of property for $34,000, the indictment says. He then had sheds built for training dogs and staging fights and a fence erected to shield the operation from view. And finally, the indictment says, he had a two-story frame house with a basketball court put up as a residence for the people taking care of the dogs. If you believe the indictment, the Vick property had everything anyone could want in a dogfighting operation.

 

When would Vick's trial begin?

 

The federal courthouse in Richmond, Va., is the home of the nationally recognized "rocket docket." Cases move quickly in Richmond, more quickly than in any other courthouse in the federal system. Vick's lawyers will be looking for delays and for time to prepare a defense, but the trial likely would begin in a matter of four to six months.

 

Are the federal authorities in Richmond tough on crime?

 

Ask Ralph Sampson, the former NBA star. He fell behind in child support payments to seven children that he had with four women, the kind of thing that is ordinarily worked out in a settlement. But instead of a settlement, Sampson found himself charged with felonies in federal court. And then, very quickly, he found himself in jail for two months on a child support charge. Yes, they're tough on crime in Richmond, and they might be particularly tough on crimes involving the torture and killing of dogs.

 

ESPN.com's Lester Munson is a Chicago lawyer and journalist who has been reporting on investigative and legal issues in the sports industry for 18 years.

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And Broncos, you're a good kid, but you're way off base here, and way out of your league. Being a Vick fan has completely clouded your rational thought process, and trying to pawn it off as your interpretation of the law isn't working. Take a deep breath, have yourself a nice bowl of Fruit Loops, and find yourself a new hero. I hear Tarvaris Jackson is available.

 

+1

 

It'd be nice if Broncos didn't go down the same path as Water Turd.

 

We won't even go into the local prosecutor's dragging of his feet in the case and the pointed implications of racism by him in the Feds going after Vick.

 

And of course, this has nothing to do with race. It's about culture. But you'll never hear that argument because the race card holds too much power. And sadly, many of the morans who were dancing in the streets when O.J. was acquitted will be blindly sticking by Vick, regardless of the evidence against him.

Edited by Bill Swerski

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I'm really disappointed in ESPN's coverage of the Vick fiasco. Talk about sniffing jock straps. That about covers it. The fact that they continue to say that he shouldn't be suspended is alarming.

By and large, ESPN is the creature of major league sports, a puppet that says what it thinks it's masters want to hear. As a critically functioning entity, it ceased to exist years ago.

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A prosecutor will generall attempt to gain an indictment on the least amount of evidence as possible....that way they have a real strong case when it comes to the plea bargain game. That being said, Grand Jury testimony is sealed and secretive simply because damn near anything is admissable...even stuff a trial judge may throw out. And there is still one wrinkle that is interesting. Vick had to be offered the opportunity to go in front of the Grand Jury and state his case ....however....if he would have done that he would have been open to the prosecutor being able to question him with much looser rules regarding objections from defense counsel. The fact he chose not to go isn't necessarily a guilt proving act....but it means his attorney felt it wasn't in his best interest. So you have that scenario as well.

 

BTW, I am in no way an attorney.....I was pre-law and have a hankoring for following cases.

 

 

Not sure what you are saying here in the bolded part above....but the Feds are under no obligation to let Vick come in and testify in front of the Grand Jury. They don't even have to let him know what's going on.

 

You are correct on the part that just about anything is admissible though, as there won't be anyone in the room do defend the '"other side". Pretty much all the testimony will be what the prosecutors want the Jury to hear, there's no "defense" or rebuttal whatsoever in front of a Grand Jury. They hear what the prosecutors want them to hear and then are asked to come back with an indictment or no indictment.

 

I'm not a lawyer either, but I did serve on a Federal Grand Jury for a year, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn while doing so. :D

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I'm really disappointed in ESPN's coverage of the Vick fiasco. Talk about sniffing jock straps. That about covers it. The fact that they continue to say that he shouldn't be suspended is alarming.

 

I just heard on ESPN radio that the suspension is coming. Sorry no other details or exact info. But they said that Vick will be suspended.

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I just heard on ESPN radio that the suspension is coming. Sorry no other details or exact info. But they said that Vick will be suspended.

 

on ESPN's First Take, they read a statement from the commish's office saying that the legal process will take it's course before there is a response from the league. Maybe just blowing smoke up everyone's a$$ but, I think, unfortunately, Goodell will take a wait & see approach instead of just dropping the hammer on this POS Vick

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I just heard on ESPN radio that the suspension is coming. Sorry no other details or exact info. But they said that Vick will be suspended.

 

Mark Schlereth was on NFL Live yesterday saying that if Pacman Jones was suspended when he was never even charged, then Schlereth couldn't understand why Vick would not be suspended when he is under indictment.

 

But yes, some guys on ESPN were handling this with kid gloves. I think that they want to protect their investment in airing the NFL games and it's "most exciting" player.

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