mroban Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Now that's just funny. I have had Julius Jones on my team for the last 3 years. The first year was the only year I didnt make the playoffs in my league. The 2nd season, I was floundering with JJ but had Larry Johnson on my roster as a keeper. When Priest Holmes went down, I never had to play JJ again and ran the table in my league. Thanks Larry. With JJ starting I lose in the first round of the playoffs. Last season I kept Julius (again) and ended up trading him after 3 weeks when it became apparent that he wasnt going to be effective as a fantasy RB. Not saying he isnt talented -- I think he is and thats why I kept him for three years. But he has been given opprotunities and has been outplayed by MBIII despite his advantage in the speed and explosiveness department. MB has been the more complete back and has deserved his playing time. New coach? Sure, we have no clue what will happen next. I suspect it will play itself out on the field. If JJ gets hurt again or proves ineffective in certain other key situations MBIII will probably put up some very good numbers again this year with JJ being a "starter" but used more situationally. If JJ shows he can carry the load, who knows? We just dont know. Its pure conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 White, dammit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 From fantasy football index: Barber was actually one of the worst backs at converting short yardage last year. he converted only 14 out of 26 carries when the team needed 1 yard to either score or keep a drive alive. Interesting ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 White, dammit! Finally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturphy Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Finally So...this whole "Black" "White" thing.. Are you saying that there are two endings to this story and we don't know which will happen yet? As in, we're all experts in August? Or, is this merely some sort of long standing twisted inside joke? Or, D: None of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 (edited) Interesting ... I was surprised. And for those asking for data on other players, it wasn't provided, unfortunately. And from what i saw last year, if there was one player who was worse, it was JJ, so possibly it wasn't entirely the runners fault, whether it was the play calling or OL issues. Edited August 8, 2007 by Jackass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 And I'm assuming you drafted JJ right? And Alex has MB on his roster. As soon as KC trades LJ to Dallas it won't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Cheezhead Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Keg, What generally happens late in games, when a team has the lead. When do RB's generally gain bigger chunks of their rushing yards? Thsoe 2 questions sum up Marion Barber. Now why was Barber in the game in the first place, well that is simple. Parcells perceived Jones to have a fumbling problem, and he gave those carries to Marion Barber. For those not following along The numbers say, Barber was used late in games to salt the game away, when the team had the lead. He gained big chunks going at a worn out defense, while Jones played the first 3.5 quarters against the fresher legs. The thing is Dallas needs to know what they have at the position, to determine if Arkansas RB Darren McFadden will be the pick with the Browns 1st round choice they acquired via trade on draft date. Barber is not a feature back. He isnt fast, nor elusive, and certainly isnt the answer early in games, when the D is fresh. Jones will be used more this yr, or so Phillips has stated, and they are planning on finding out if he is the long term answer at the position, or if they need to look outside the roster for the feature back next yr. Even if it were true that MB3 got most of his yards in the 4th quarter when the 'Boys had a lead, don't you have to account for those tired defenders knowing they're facing a running play? I mean, in that scenario, MB3 averaged 5+ YPC against 8- and 9-man fronts -- which would be impressive in its own right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Even if it were true that MB3 got most of his yards in the 4th quarter when the 'Boys had a lead, don't you have to account for those tired defenders knowing they're facing a running play? I mean, in that scenario, MB3 averaged 5+ YPC against 8- and 9-man fronts -- which would be impressive in its own right. Look at Troy Hambricks yards per carry the last yr Emmitt was in Dallas. Then look at his yards the next yr as the starter. Everyone said Emmitt needed to go, as Hambrick was ready to take the job. How did that work out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 As soon as KC trades LJ to Dallas it won't matter. Id love for this to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Look at Troy Hambricks yards per carry the last yr Emmitt was in Dallas. Then look at his yards the next yr as the starter. Everyone said Emmitt needed to go, as Hambrick was ready to take the job. How did that work out? ummm i dont think that Swiss or myself are saying that Barber should be the starter...just saying that he has outperformed JJ with the chances he is given...my main point is that Barber presents very nice upside should JJ get injured(he has missed 23% of his games 11/48)....and all i have done is posted stats that continually contradict what you and some other homers are saying....this has nothing to do with the Hambrick/Emmitt debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 (edited) ummm i dont think that Swiss or myself are saying that Barber should be the starter...just saying that he has outperformed JJ with the chances he is given...my main point is that Barber presents very nice upside should JJ get injured(he has missed 23% of his games 11/48)....and all i have done is posted stats that continually contradict what you and some other homers are saying....this has nothing to do with the Hambrick/Emmitt debate. The name of this post is why isnt MB3 starting. We have been giving reasons why he isnt and won't start, and now you are saying you dont even disagree he should be starting, but are throwing out numbers we all know happened last yr. I think its fairly common knowledge Barber makes a nice upside if JJ gets hurt, just like any backup if the starter gets hurt. We all know what happened here last yr, I am not arguing with those facts. I have said many times, those circumstances were under Parcells, and Parcells isnt here. But you keep throwing out those numbers which are as relevant as my Hambrick vs Emmit arguement. Edited August 9, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 So...this whole "Black" "White" thing.. Are you saying that there are two endings to this story and we don't know which will happen yet? As in, we're all experts in August? Or, is this merely some sort of long standing twisted inside joke? Or, D: None of the above. It merely denotes arguing for the sake of arguing. That neither side will see the other and it is just arguing to argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 The name of this post is why isnt MB3 starting. We have been giving reasons why he isnt and won't start, and now you are saying you dont even disagree he should be starting, but are throwing out numbers we all know happened last yr. I think its fairly common knowledge Barber makes a nice upside if JJ gets hurt, just like any backup if the starter gets hurt. We all know what happened here last yr, I am not arguing with those facts. I have said many times, those circumstances were under Parcells, and Parcells isnt here. But you keep throwing out those numbers which are as relevant as my Hambrick vs Emmit arguement. correct the name of this post is why isnt MB3 starting...i added stats that showed when he got 10 carries in a game the boys won 9 of those games...i then went on to summize that maybe they should get him at least 10 carries/game. What has been stated by you and a few others are things that you say you saw while watching the games and as I dug I found those statements to not be true so i posted stats to disprove those statements. and just because a starter gets hurt it doesnt mean that the backup is going to have nice upside....but my point is that due to JJs "fragility" that barber does have nice upside and I have posted stats to back that up... I guess what bothers me most is that the info being given by homers is based on a perception of the games that they saw last yr but they dont match up to what the stats say. If there is blind homerism that is one thing but to say. Player X got most of his yards on 3rd downs and then to look at the stats and see that isnt true well all that does is make it less likely that outsiders are going to take those homer insights with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 It merely denotes arguing for the sake of arguing. That neither side will see the other and it is just arguing to argue. sorry & done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 It merely denotes arguing for the sake of arguing. That neither side will see the other and it is just arguing to argue. I disagree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 I disagree... White. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 I disagree... nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 correct the name of this post is why isnt MB3 starting...i added stats that showed when he got 10 carries in a game the boys won 9 of those games...i then went on to summize that maybe they should get him at least 10 carries/game. What has been stated by you and a few others are things that you say you saw while watching the games and as I dug I found those statements to not be true so i posted stats to disprove those statements. and just because a starter gets hurt it doesnt mean that the backup is going to have nice upside....but my point is that due to JJs "fragility" that barber does have nice upside and I have posted stats to back that up... I guess what bothers me most is that the info being given by homers is based on a perception of the games that they saw last yr but they dont match up to what the stats say. If there is blind homerism that is one thing but to say. Player X got most of his yards on 3rd downs and then to look at the stats and see that isnt true well all that does is make it less likely that outsiders are going to take those homer insights with a grain of salt. This is like saying if a RB gets 100 yards, the team wins 85% of their games. So why not just run the player until he gets 100 yards. Its got an 85%chance of winning right? Wrong. Everything that happens in a game determines the outcome, not just one stat here or there. one long run by barber in fewer carries can skew his numbers considerably. When the player is in the game, the down and situation, as well as the score of the game, and the opponent. All these are factors. Contrary to what many think, Barber was not a great short yardage back, and there have been numbers to support that. Parcells had no rhyme or reason when he used one back over the other, and he played mind games with Julius Jones, while Barber was his pet project. Parcells isnt here anymore. The new coach said Parcells didnt use Jones the right way, and he was going to do that. Jones has added 10+ lbs of muscle to help him stay healthy, all these are things Ive said before to defend my reasoning why Jones will start, and succeed this yr. This site is about providing info to those who are looking for it. I've tried to do that here. tried to give some insight of what is going on in camp, and what the coaches are saying, and what the players did in the offseason to get them prepared for the new season upon us. . What Ive got back is someone arguing stats from a different year, under a different coaching staff, about a player who had certain numbers and opportunities under that staff, that the player wont have the this Im done with this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts