Unfair treatment of Black QB's

[FishFreak]

Charlie Frye; Harrington; Bledsoe; Green; Dilfer; Warner; McMahon; Plunkett; Brees ...do you really want me to list them all?

 

Regardless of race, oft-injured, non-productive QBs get moved.

 

I truly believe that you are looking for a race issue where none exists.

 

Sure you can name a ton of guys that have been moved, shipped, traded or just flat out sucked. But not one of those guys were cut or let go in the manner of which guys like McNair, Leftwich and to a lesser extent C-Pep was treated. And no. 1 overall picks don't get slapped around like Russell. You just made the point for me I've been trying make you understand (at least from my perspective). Calm down guys it's really not that serious and don't make me into something I'm not. We are having a discussion right?

[Tally]

I will only comment on Jemarcus Russell because I don’t follow any of the other organizations closely enough to have an educated opinion on those situations/players.

 

I personally feel that the only reason J. Russell and the Raiders took so long to come to terms was simply based on the sheer size of the contract itself. I have been in sales my entire adult life and although this may not apply all the time, it does apply very often….the rule is that the larger the deal is, the longer it takes to negotiate & close and J. Russell did get a huge contract. I really don’t think it goes any deeper than that.

 

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=217027

Edited September 13, 2007 by Tally

[sarge5121976]

Sure you can name a ton of guys that have been moved, shipped, traded or just flat out sucked. But not one of those guys were cut or let go in the manner of which guys like McNair, Leftwich and to a lesser extent C-Pep was treated. And no. 1 overall picks don't get slapped around like Russell. You just made the point for me I've been trying make you understand (at least from my perspective). Calm down guys it's really not that serious and don't make me into something I'm not. We are having a discussion right?

 

It's my opinion racism will never end because people like you won't let it end.

[Jackass]

It does'nt bother me as much as it may seem. Just seems like a stupid rule to me. I honestly think that every owner in the NFL will interview and hire whoever they think gives them the best chance to succeed, without being told who they have to interview. Again, maybe I'm being naive.

 

In many ways it is kind of stupid. But it does seem to achieve its objective without harming anyone. Taking this away from football, i work for a financial services company. In my division, nearly everyone who is hired is a friend of a friend or whatever. Now, there's not one black person in my division because most people (this is a generalization of course) are friends with people of their same race. There's a loose network that gets built and it's hard for people on the outside to break into it without a little help.

[FishFreak]

It does'nt bother me as much as it may seem. Just seems like a stupid rule to me. I honestly think that every owner in the NFL will interview and hire whoever they think gives them the best chance to succeed, without being told who they have to interview. Again, maybe I'm being naive.

 

Extremely naive. That's why the NFL had to force teams to at least interview minorites. Minorities weren't even given the chance to get those jobs. People hire who they like and understand. There is a generaton gap between and older white owner and say a young up and coming black coach. That's just reality not racial.

[Rovers]

The reason people (like me) get annoyed when the race card is played when race is irrelevant, is that always playing the race card like this, waters down when someone cries "Wolf!" and there REALLY IS a wolf. Sure, replacing a black QB with another black QB can be twisted into some sort of "lack of respect" issue for black QB's? No, it's about winning, and only about winning in the NFL. This poor fresakin "us" schtick with Blacks, Jews, American Indians, Irish nationalists, Muslims, etc, etc and all the other groups that blame all of their collective problems, real or percieved becuase they think the world is against them, and exclusivley against them is pitiful displacement of accepting responsibilty for their own or their "group's" or individuals of that group's actions.

 

Dammed good bait though, I'll give ya that. Beyond that, pretty useless and pointless idea for a thread. Reminds me of the "dog fighting is a cultural thng" excuse while condemning some 18 year old racist who was brought up in a KKK family isn't a victim of assinine, wrong, immoral cultural influences. Wrong is wrong. But, blacks do themselves and their race a gross injustice when they blame everthing that might go wrong in their lives on their skin color. When they have a legit beef, and they often do, it more often now falls on deaf ears. "WOLF!"

 

Are you Al Sharpton?

[Jackass]

I will only comment on Jemarcus Russell because I don’t follow any of the other organizations closely enough to have an educated opinion on those situations/players.

 

I personally feel that the only reason J. Russell and the Raiders took so long to come to terms was simply based on the sheer size of the contract itself. I have been in sales my entire adult life and although this may not apply all the time, it does apply very often….the rule is that the larger the deal is the longer it takes to negotiate & close and J. Russell did get a huge contract. I really don’t think it goes any deeper than that.

 

http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=217027

 

Good point. And don't forget all of the recent #1 picks were signed before they were picked.

[Brentastic]

I'm totally not seeing anything race related. I would imagine that any given NFL team has more black players than white players. AND whether anyone wants to admit it or not - black people are generally more athletic than white people. Why would any owner/coach/fan jeopardize winning/championships/money/status over preference of race? Especially when the majority of their players are black and the elite players of said team are most likely black. It doesn't add up at all. For every black athlete you argue an injustice occured - I bet I can find a white athlete that incurred the same injustice. It's all relative. Just like when anyone on here argues about anything - if you're trying to "win" the argument or feel better about your position (in said argument) you will always find a way to justify your point of view - it's human nature.

 

That being said, it is also human nature to try and maximize one's own pleasure/status/feelings - and we humans are masters of getting people to "notice" when we feel slighted or hurt (like when a toddler realizes that crying will get him more attention, he quickly learns to cry more often). If history shows us that race has been a contributing factor of unfair treatment - then subconsciously the victims of past race incidents will naturally lean toward race as an excuse for other injustices - and not because they're bad people, but because it's an instinct handed down by evolution. I'm not saying that race is never a factor in the mistreatment of people - but I think the "race card" has been severly abused, especially in the last fifteen years or so. When talking about black QBs - I don't see race as a factor at all.

 

The bottom line: Every group of people gets stereotyped and talked about in a negative way. If it's not "he's black" then it's "he's whitetrash" or "she's a girl" or "he's an arab" or "he's a frat boy" etc..... When it helps out your feelings or makes one feel better about one's self - rest assured justification will follow - whether it's right or wrong. ALL groups of people endure discrimination.

[Grits and Shins]

What a load of crap.

 

The only color owners in the NFL care about is green.

 

When i watch the games on Sunday it seems to me like I am seeing many more black players than white.

 

Very lame trying to play the race card here.

[MikesVikes]

It doesn't matter what any of us think. Jimmy the Greek had all the answers.

[piratesownninjas]

You can disagree with me on my five examples but I gave those examples to back up what my initial opinion was about.....how unfairly some black qb's have been treated compared to their white counterparts.

 

 

 

Also, some guys mentioned how the Jaguars and Titans both have black qb's after giving McNair and Leftwich the unprofessional boot. So what? Does that make a wrong right?

And I gave examples of why you were wrong...

Quarterbacks are on a short leash unless you're still capable of being a great player. The guys you mentioned were either spare, old, or had stupid fans which has nothing to do with the league.

 

They may have been treated unfairly, but if they're replacing the black qb with another black qb, doesn't that indicate that they're not being treated unfairly because they are black?

They were treated like spare parts because they are not productive quarterbacks. It has nothing to do with race. Its wins and losses...

 

 

Screw it... Kill Whitey.

[AFRO]

I probably should reserve my comments.. but

McNair. I do strongly feel that he was DISRESPECTED AS A MAN, and the TENN Org. was wrong for how the situation was handled...

but McNair was a shell of a player (miss all week hurt and show up for the game;) a manly TOUGH thing, but not what an Org. looks for in a QB; EVERY WEEK he is a question mark... but as stated earlier V.Young is a brotha.. keeping McNair was bad business. for the TENN Org (it should have been handled with more class and respect for the man though..)

 

Leftwich. similar yet with out the accolades in McNairs portfolio.. he is a Statue (much like D.Bledsoe was at his end) Solid Strong arm, but slow and pretty slow release with his huge step into the throw.. again business, and again too, D.Garrard is also a brotha. (BTW T.Romo is the sig caller now that Drew has been Disgarded and NO ONE has seen it in their hearts to sign him since, even as a back-up for a reason)

 

Russell is young, and wants that paper; Al Davis is old and wants to pinch his pennies... Bisness again, bad business but not a race thing.. (See Brady Quinn trying to get paid too; only he was 10th trying to get that #1 money.. nother story..) Dumb agent thing IMO

 

C.Pep (HE WAS DONE WRONG TOO by Miami Org. IMO) but his skill set is no longer the same either, and he rushed back (and I feel Sabin assisted in the rushing back) but I feel he was the first part of the phrase "Culppeer to Moss" now granted he did make some ProBowls and had a couple monster seasons.. but when moss left so did his stats, then he had to do more for the team and got hurt.. and again 'T.Jax' is another brotha (leave us not forget the "LOVE BOAT" in Minn soiled him too..)

 

McNabb developed into one of the leagues best QB's race aside.. but he could not stay healthy in recent years.. when he plays its at a high level and his teammates benefit from his skill. Philly fans are a bit about their teams and cut throat about thier sports, but fans of football (not just eagle fans) should know that McNabb is what most folks like in a Person Period; he is a great model of what an NFL athlete should be regardless of race or position.. you never hear anything demeaning about him (other then he cant seem to stay healthy and when T.O. gave him the "media-mud bath.." and he came out stain free..) he is classy.

 

I too am a brotha, so I feel like though some on the list have been done wrong, its not about race, its about Org.'s trying to achieve the #2 objective in getting the best players/coaches thier money can buy (for their respective positions) to execute their shcemes and gameplans, so that they win enough games to achieve the ultimate and #1 sport goal of winning the SB or w/e.. not so much a race thing to me...

[Bonedaddies]

So you are more concerned about how you perceived they are treated rather than nuts and bolts reason. Here is where I think a lot of the race relations falls short. You see, my perception is that (for most whites) we don't even factor in race when seeing or dealing with these issues....where as, black friends of mine see alot of topics from the race angle first....and then react. Hence, you might hear white people sick of hearing the "race" card being thrown out too much. Honestly, most of the responses to your original question "missed the boat" because we were looking at it practically(whites), not emotionally(blacks)......it 's like you are worried about being disrespected, we see it as a simple business move....which again, is where the disconnect in the race relations falls short.

 

 

Who is "we" and "they"?? Until people get past the we's and they's....and what "they" think....and what "they" do...or what "we" do or think this issue will always be on the table. Fish asked for some honest dialogue on the treatment of these players, not debate on interviewing coaches black or white.

[Feartheturtle]

FF-You make valid points, however I would agree more if you said football players, in general, were treated unfairly. There are many responses to your post that list injustices to all colors of players. I agree with you when you say it doesn't matter who McNair's and Leftwich's backups were. I also agree that the arguement made that each of your examples was a business decision, is a valid one. Let me give you my humble opinion on each QB:

 

Leftwich-drafted by GM. Coach wanted a defensive player. Coach never liked him. Was outplayed in preseason by Garrard. Gave coach a reason to let him go. Also has injury issues. The fact that no one signed him right away should tell you not too many coaches are impressed. Personally, I think Leftwich is a warrior. I saw him in college have to be carried from the end of one play to the beginning of the next because he could not walk. With all of his injuries, and weight, he is not very mobile and IMO not a very good decision maker. I give you the timing being terrible for him, but he gave Del Rio a window...

 

Culpepper-another warrior. Rushed back from injury when he was not ready. Has not been the same QB since Moss left, even before the injury. I will give you he was run out of Miami, but I think it was again, a coach's decision to go in another direction. I hope he makes the most of his opportunity in Oakland. If he can bounce back, next year he will be starting for 1 of those teams you talked about with a lesser QB right now.

 

Russell-asked for too much. Listen, I am all for players getting as much as they can in guaranteed money. I hate to see what happened to Everret and understand it can happen anytime to anyone. The bottom line is when you are a rookie and haven't proven anything, you have no right to DEMAND anything. I believe this was the case with Russell and it seems to get worse, in general, every year. Russell got his money, now he will have to earn it, or he will get booed, just like...

 

McNabb-booed on draft day. I'll admit as a Colts fan, I booed Manning being drafted #1. I thought the other guy(how soon they forget) would be a better fit since he was bigger and stronger. I knew he would be starting right away and with the Colts' O-line, was in for a long season. I didn't think Manning would last 5 games as many times as he was going to be sacked the first year. Boy was I wrong! Eagles fans were wrong as well to boo, but that was just their opinion. I think McNabb has been treated very well in Philly, especially throughout the TO freak show. While I was shocked to see the Eagles select a QB with their first pick, I was not shocked to see them draft a QB as insurance. If McNabb can stay healthy, he does NOT have to worry about being replaced.

 

McNair-I saved him for last because I have a harder time understanding his situation, than any of the others. I didn't agree with how the Titans relationship ended with Eddie George either. I think both guys gave their heart and soul to their team, and both were discarded as soon as they showed a minor decrease in production. On the other hand, I think they have been way too patient with Pacman. My hope is that they just have some really poor people making their personnel decisions. I think McNair's biggest strength is also his biggest weakness. He played much of the Monday night game on 1 leg. Unfortunately, he should have been pulled sooner as he was hurting his team. I'll take him on my team anyday though.

 

To sum up FF, while you make some valid points, and definitely a good topic of discussion, I think we can have this same discussion about white QBs, other positional players, and even other sports as well. In general, our athletes are tossed aside, for the most part, when their skills start to decline, without much loyalty from their respective teams. There will always be someone younger, faster, stronger, or if not, someone the fans think is. Thanks for the discussion. Till next time...

[millerx]

Who is "we" and "they"?? Until people get past the we's and they's....and what "they" think....and what "they" do...or what "we" do or think this issue will always be on the table. Fish asked for some honest dialogue on the treatment of these players, not debate on interviewing coaches black or white.

 

Uuummmm.....I specifically pointed out who I meant when I said "we" or "they"......and Fish seemed to understand my honest dialogue and even agreed with some of it.......Now go hug a tree, save a dolphin, or sing kum-bi-ya, or whatever it is you do.

[Jumbie]

Sure you can name a ton of guys that have been moved, shipped, traded or just flat out sucked. But not one of those guys were cut or let go in the manner of which guys like McNair, Leftwich and to a lesser extent C-Pep was treated. And no. 1 overall picks don't get slapped around like Russell. You just made the point for me I've been trying make you understand (at least from my perspective). Calm down guys it's really not that serious and don't make me into something I'm not. We are having a discussion right?

 

First off, I am totally calm. Your post doesn't incite me because I think that it is based on flawed reasoning.

 

Second, if you think my examples somehow "made your point" you are seriously mistaken.

 

Imagine, for a moment, that Charlie Frye was black. He got seriously disrespected by the Browns a couple of days ago. I didn't catch you mentioning the fact that he, a man, was so badly treated.

 

What remains obvious is that you don't seem to care about people being disrespected, unless they happen to be black. It is attitudes like yours that perpetuate racial divides.

 

We are all football fans here. We have something in common. Perhaps you can try to appreciate how refreshing that is.

[millerx]

Best response yet. I couldn't agree more.

 

Okay!!! Now what did I win!!!!!!

[FishFreak]

The reason people (like me) get annoyed when the race card is played when race is irrelevant, is that always playing the race card like this, waters down when someone cries "Wolf!" and there REALLY IS a wolf. Sure, replacing a black QB with another black QB can be twisted into some sort of "lack of respect" issue for black QB's? No, it's about winning, and only about winning in the NFL. This poor fresakin "us" schtick with Blacks, Jews, American Indians, Irish nationalists, Muslims, etc, etc and all the other groups that blame all of their collective problems, real or percieved becuase they think the world is against them, and exclusivley against them is pitiful displacement of accepting responsibilty for their own or their "group's" or individuals of that group's actions.

 

Dammed good bait though, I'll give ya that. Beyond that, pretty useless and pointless idea for a thread. Reminds me of the "dog fighting is a cultural thng" excuse while condemning some 18 year old racist who was brought up in a KKK family isn't a victim of assinine, wrong, immoral cultural influences. Wrong is wrong. But, blacks do themselves and their race a gross injustice when they blame everthing that might go wrong in their lives on their skin color. When they have a legit beef, and they often do, it more often now falls on deaf ears. "WOLF!"

 

Are you Al Sharpton?

 

You and I will never see eye to eye whether it's black, white, green or teal. Your response is childish trying to compare me to Al Sharpton as if I'm exploiting a racial incident for personal gain. Again I gave you all clear examples of why I feel the way I do based on an interesting conversation I had with a friend. You can disagree all you want, call me names or accuse me of using the race card if you wish. I thought we could have an adult conversation about any and all issues. I guess I was wrong.

[Chief]

I had a heated discussion with my buddy recently and we were both ticked off at the classless acts and blatant disrepect shown to Black QB's in recent years. My friend and I are both African-American and I'm assuming these boards consist of mostly middle aged white men. I'd like to get your thoughts on if we're over reacting, making these incidents into a racial issue or have a valid point. We are all biased in some ways and have our opininons but the public gets very touchy when talking about race. Feel free to speak your mind and don't worry I won't accuse you of being the overly used term "rascist". I just want to get your honest opinion. The best way to improve race realtions and uncomfortable situations is to talk about it and experess opinions.

 

Bottom line is my friend and I feel like white QB's generally have a much longer leash, get more opportunities, and are certainly treated in a much more professional manner than their counterpart black qb's sadly. Here are the most recent examples below.

 

1) Steve McNair- This one was shocking. McNair was the backbone on the Titans for years, went to a SB, won a co-MVP (questionable), went to Pro-Bowls and gave his heart and soul to to the Titans playing hurt many times. What did he get for his service? Evicted from the Titans facilities in a classless way then held on to purposely and let go late so he wouldn't have much time to digest his new teams offense. I've never really seen a franchise QB ever get so blatantly disrespected. It just doesn't happen. It thought that might be an isolated incident.

 

2) Byron Leftwich- A week before the season starts is cut after being named the season starter. Not demoted, not re-announcing a open competition just cut like a sack of potatoes as if the guy was a special teams player trying to make the team. Now Leftwich is not an accomplished NFL QB and has injury issues but he was a high 1st round draft pick and has potential especially if you surround him with better WR's. Again, you just won't see white QB's treated in this manner...ever.

 

3) Jemarcus Russell- The Raiders make this guy the no. 1 overall pick and then don't want to pay him the proper guarnateed money? How rediculous is that? Then they finally sign him going into week 2 of the season! That's just rediculous. Maybe his agent was asking for too much or there were some behind the scenes ugly stuff. What ever the case, a no. 1 pick never gets treated like that. It just doesn't happen.

 

4) Duante Culpepper- The Fish sign this guy after major knee surgery, then give him just one season to prove his worth. They then turn around and yet again you cut him late to sign an aging stop gap QB in Green? Again C-Pep is an ESTABLISHED, pro bowl QB who has put up some studly seasons. I would expect him to be given better opportunities than starting for the lowly Raiders (no offense homers). There are about 5-10 teams with sucky QB's but C-Pep can't get aother decent shot? Maybe I'm biased on this one and C-Pep is washed up due to injury but he's only 32 and shouldn't be thinking about the CFL yet IMO.

 

5) Donovan McNabb- The man was booed by the morons of brotherly love from the day he was drafted. And no matter what he does, someone is always calling him out and questioning his accomplishments as if he lucked into being a Pro Bowler, leading his team to a SB and becoming an elite NFL QB. Yeah he's caught the injury bug lately but he's always been a great QB for that team. Just watch how quickly his window is closing if he doesn't get it done this year or maybe next year. That city will be calling for the rookie Kevin Kolb and turn it's back and show the door to McNabb in a heartbeat. McNabb's situation is more speculation than anything but I see the tidal wave coming.

 

So with that said please respond.......

[

 

Bottom line, you and your buddies are idiots,,,,,,,,,racism???????? Any one can go back and validate anything, upon thier view points,,,,, but most importantly, teams are gonna do whats best to help their teams win. Russel? Worth all that money and not even a down played? KMA Black or White, they need a Rookie salary cap, 1-2 million, thats it, prove your self afterwards for more. As a white man, I'm fed up with racism comments, crying wolf, by blacks, for no reason, or self serving reasons, in an attempt to to say, "Give me more, I'm oppressed", yet are given far more chances to succeed in the real world. I'm amazed you didn't bring up Vick, cause he's black, he was "picked on". Grow up and get a life.

[Jimmy Neutron]

The only color owners in the NFL care about is green.

 

Yup.

[FishFreak]

First off, I am totally calm. Your post doesn't incite me because I think that it is based on flawed reasoning.

 

Second, if you think my examples somehow "made your point" you are seriously mistaken.

 

Imagine, for a moment, that Charlie Frye was black. He got seriously disrespected by the Browns a couple of days ago. I didn't catch you mentioning the fact that he, a man, was so badly treated.

 

What remains obvious is that you don't seem to care about people being disrespected, unless they happen to be black. It is attitudes like yours that perpetuate racial divides.

 

We are all football fans here. We have something in common. Perhaps you can try to appreciate how refreshing that is.

 

Tell me, how exactly was Charlie Frye disrespected? He stunk up the joint, lost his job and was traded to another team. That's the royal treatment in the NFL considering what he's done as a QB. Guys like McNair, Leftwich and C-Pep were tossed out on their ass and cut in a nasty manner. On top of that McNair and C-Pep are much more accomplished QB's who have been pro bowlers. If you can't see the difference between the two then no wonder why you feel my reasoning is flawed. To each his own, I can't make it any clearer. Like I said, you made my point.

[Bonedaddies]

Uuummmm.....I specifically pointed out who I meant when I said "we" or "they"......and Fish seemed to understand my honest dialogue and even agreed with some of it.......Now go hug a tree, save a dolphin, or sing kum-bi-ya, or whatever it is you do.

 

 

Yes...you did point out who you meant when you said "we" or "they"...you pointed out we the white people....because we all think alike and act alike and all have the same opinions, we all hug trees and sing...or do we (here is where you are suppose to think about what you said and realize "we" all...and by "we" I mean white people DO NOT think alike) LOL.......... and "they"........I guess that would be the brothas and sistas, all think and act alike as well.........bottom line is we don't.....and by "we" I mean people... I don't expect you to get it....it's OK, just continue to live your double life.

[Feartheturtle]

You can disagree all you want, call me names or accuse me of using the race card if you wish. I thought we could have an adult conversation about any and all issues. I guess I was wrong.

 

FF-You can't lump all of these responses into disagreements, accusations, and childish conversation. If you compare this post to almost every other post on the Huddle you will find people who are passionate about their opinions, people that have some really good opinions, and people who just like to see their opinions in print.

 

I think for the most part, you got what you wanted in bringing your opinion to light and having a discussion about it. I don't think the objective was, or should have been to sway anyone to one side or the other. I, like most people, can respect your opinion as well as disagree with it. I think you should try to respect the opinions of those that took the time to respond to your request, even though you don't agree with them. Please leave it at that. Thanks again for the good topic, and discussion!

[MERLINS]

FF-

 

Just hold on, soon enough the entire league will be black and you will have nothing to question.

[Jumbie]

Tell me, how exactly was Charlie Frye disrespected? He stunk up the joint, lost his job and was traded to another team. That's the royal treatment in the NFL considering what he's done as a QB. Guys like McNair, Leftwich and C-Pep were tossed out on their ass and cut in a nasty manner. On top of that McNair and C-Pep are much more accomplished QB's who have been pro bowlers. If you can't see the difference between the two then no wonder why you feel my reasoning is flawed. To each his own, I can't make it any clearer. Like I said, you made my point.

 

Okay, you're right. The NFL has maliciously chosen to discriminate against black QBs. Let's all repeat that out loud, "the NFL has maliciously chosen to discriminate against black QBs." Okay, now a show of hands...how many of you laughed out loud? Thought so.