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Comparing Rice to Moss


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No, Rice is best because he put up those ginormous numbers in a era when DBs had more latitude to stop WRs physically and Rice was a complete player. See if you can find an instance of anyone talking about Rice taking a play off or showing alligator arms across the middle at any time in his career.

Let's assume that Moss has taken plays off (it's a fair criticism but is something that's virtually unquantifiable), he still has managed a first 10 years that is comparable with the best all time. As I pointed out above, consider the situation that Rice was drafted into in 1985 vs Moss in 1998. THAT is not even a fair comparison (49ers 80s/90s dynasty vs the end of 90s Vikings :wacko: ) and Moss is a mere ~1000yds/7 TDs short of Rice's first 10 seasons.

 

Moss has admitted as much about taking plays off. In fact Tom Brady, a likely first ballot HOFer, confirmed it. It still doesn't change Moss' production. In fact, Brady brought up a valid point about what type of receiver Moss is and why he should take plays off... :D

 

The point about the pass coverage rules is interesting. We all are well aware of the 1994 "chuck" rule. When the rule was revised in the 2004 offseason, it was after a steady decline in passing stats. The rule left things open for the defense causing the rules committee to review the 1994 rule... :moon:. For example (from the link), in 2003 teams passed for an average of 200.45 yards per game. This was the lowest average per game passing total since 1992... 2 years BEFORE the 1994 rule changes. This gives us a great point of comparison. By 1992, Rice had been posting some ridiculous numbers in his career. In 2003, the worst overall passing year since 1992, Moss had his BEST year.

 

To each his own. :D

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Here are some Career Receiving Stats

 

REC YDS AVG TD's

 

Rice 1549 22895 14.8 197

 

Moss 774 12193 15.8 124

 

Check out the Individual Records for Receiving - Not sure there is much of an argument for comparison IMO.

 

http://www.nfl.com/history/randf/records/indiv/receiving

 

You can't compare entire careers. YET. Rice has about 10 years on Moss...

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frankly, i believed that moss had the potential to surpass rice........if he had rice's work ethic. i understand the points made re: suppoorting casts, but rice was still a superior player... he did more of everything at a high level (ie: route running, downfield blocking, imo better hands than moss). moss has the edge on streak patterns, but rice was still up there

 

 

West coast offense. Not much blocking to be done...

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The point about the pass coverage rules is interesting. We all are well aware of the 1994 "chuck" rule. When the rule was revised in the 2004 offseason, it was after a steady decline in passing stats. The rule left things open for the defense causing the rules committee to review the 1994 rule... :wacko:. For example (from the link), in 2003 teams passed for an average of 200.45 yards per game. This was the lowest average per game passing total since 1992... 2 years BEFORE the 1994 rule changes. This gives us a great point of comparison. By 1992, Rice had been posting some ridiculous numbers in his career. In 2003, the worst overall passing year since 1992, Moss had his BEST year.

 

What about the 2004 emphasis on enforcing the illegal contact rule?

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You gotta look at the postseason numbers...

 

Moss

37 receptions, 755 yards, 9 TDs, 3 100+ yard games

 

Rice

151 receptions, 2,245 yards, 22 TDs, 8 100+ yard games

 

Super Bowl XXIII: 11-215, TD (MVP)

Super Bowl XXIV: 7-148, 3 TDs (with a seperated shoulder)

Super Bowl XXIX: 10-149, 3 TDs

Super Bowl XXXVII: 5-77, TD

 

:wacko:

Edited by budlitebrad
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You gotta look at the most important numbers...

 

Moss

37 receptions, 755 yards, 9 TDs, 3 100+ yard games

 

Rice

151 receptions, 2,245 yards, 22 TDs, 8 100+ yard games

 

Super Bowl XXIII: 11-215, TD (MVP)

Super Bowl XXIV: 7-148, 3 TDs (with a seperated shoulder)

Super Bowl XXIX: 10-149, 3 TDs

Super Bowl XXXVII: 5-77, TD

 

:D

 

 

Dang :wacko:

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the more i look at this the more i realize Rice is still far and beyond the best WR in history of football

 

When you look at what he accomplished in his career it is hard to argue against him not only being the best WR ever but possibly the best football player ever. I posted a link earlier in this thread to the NFL's records for receiving. If you look through that list at which ones he owns and the numbers associated with each it is simply amazing and that does not include how many he is second or third all time in.

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Rice NEVER was a malcontent. Rice NEVER dogged it in practice or game. Rice NEVER played unprepared or took plays off if they weren't coming his way. Rice NEVER got in trouble off the field to sully his teams reputation. Because of this Rice owns many rings and all the respect of any player he competed with or against.

 

Should I go on? Really no comparison.

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West coast offense. Not much blocking to be done...

 

 

how old are you? i benefited from growing up in sf and got to watch them weekly (long before sunday ticket). rice may be the best blocking wr to play the game.... never fails that when you saw long rushes by craig/watters....or receptions by taylor, jones, craig, watters, etc you would always see rice blocking downfield....... even that amazing run by young vs min it was rice's block that allowed young to stumble in.

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In 2003, the worst overall passing year since 1992, Moss had his BEST year.

 

Well, good then. Now that we are discussing specific years in defining a player, let's talk about Moss' performances in 2004 and 2006. You know, the years he utterly quit on his team, once in MIN and the other in OAK, so that he would force the team to move him elsewhere because he was such an anchor and a cancer to each team.

 

Moss doesn't belong in any conversation when talking about Rice. The guy is incredibly gifted, no doubt. But the great players don't quit on the team strictly for their own personal benefit. Moss did it not once, but twice.

 

The defense rests.

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"Ladies and gentlemen of the Jury , have you reached a verdict "

 

"yes we have your honor "

 

"How does the Jury vote "

 

 

"the Jury finds that Jerry Rice is not only so much better than Randy Moss , Jerry Rice is the best WR in NFL history and perhaps one of the best NFKL players to ever play

 

No other WR can touch him at this point and probably will never be able to pass him "

 

" thank you ladies and gentlemen " ...Court is now adjourned !

Edited by isleseeya
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"Ladies and gentlemen of the Jury , have you reached a verdict "

 

"yes we have your honor "

 

"How does the Jury vote "

"the Jury finds that Jerry Rice is not only so much better than Randy Moss , Jerry Rice is the best WR in NFL history and perhaps one of the best NFKL players to ever play

 

No other WR can touch him at this point and probably will never be able to pass him "

 

" thank you ladies and gentlemen " ...Court is now adjourned !

 

That really wasn't the point that I was making. The jury shouldn't be out very long on which is the better player.

 

The point is that whenever the TD record is mentioned, it almost always includes the point that Rice did it in a shortened season. So it appears that it is assumed that there should be some sort of asterisk behind the record since Rice had an obvious tougher time to set it than Moss did. I call bs on that since Rice never came close to scoring 22 tds in a full 16 game season and had about 20 seasons to do it. Not to mention all of the other TO's and Harrisons in the league that have had all the advantages of the modern rules that Moss has had have never broken the record either.

 

Even though Rice is the better receiver/player than Moss is, why should Randy's record be "tainted" in any way just because he had a full season to accomplish the record. Rice has had several attempts with full seasons to match or break the record and never did. Also why did Rice set the record in a strike year?

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Well, good then. Now that we are discussing specific years in defining a player, let's talk about Moss' performances in 2004 and 2006. You know, the years he utterly quit on his team, once in MIN and the other in OAK, so that he would force the team to move him elsewhere because he was such an anchor and a cancer to each team.

 

Moss doesn't belong in any conversation when talking about Rice. The guy is incredibly gifted, no doubt. But the great players don't quit on the team strictly for their own personal benefit. Moss did it not once, but twice.

 

The defense rests.

Personal benefit? Moss took a pay cut of about $5 mil to become a Patriot. I'd like to live in the parallel universe where giving up $5 mil is a personal benefit. And about leaving the Vikings, find one article that says Randy wanted out of Minnesota. You won't but what you will find are articles from Matt Birk and Culpepper saying that they had enough and ownership has had enough. The new ownership playing a key role by balking at wanting to continue to pay Moss for the tail end of a big contract the team signed him to in 2001. But yeah, real relief they got rid of that Randy cancer. Now they can have all the boat parties they want. Especially Culpepper since he has had quite a bit of free time on his hands lately.

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Personal benefit? Moss took a pay cut of about $5 mil to become a Patriot. I'd like to live in the parallel universe where giving up $5 mil is a personal benefit. And about leaving the Vikings, find one article that says Randy wanted out of Minnesota. You won't but what you will find are articles from Matt Birk and Culpepper saying that they had enough and ownership has had enough. The new ownership playing a key role by balking at wanting to continue to pay Moss for the tail end of a big contract the team signed him to in 2001. But yeah, real relief they got rid of that Randy cancer. Now they can have all the boat parties they want. Especially Culpepper since he has had quite a bit of free time on his hands lately.

 

See, now that's a compelling argument that simply can't be ignored.

 

Okay, so Moss' attitude had nothing to do with his performance in 2004 & 2006, and he was performing at the top of his game in those two years. Why don't you explain to the class how the greatest WR in NFL history got held to 49 catches for 767 yds in 2004 with MIN, upon which he was traded to OAK and 42 catches for 553 yards in 2006 with OAK, upon which he was sent packing to NE, both times playing 13 games - yet in 2003 he managed 111 catches for 1632 yards and in 2007 he managed 98 catches for 1493 yds, bracketing those years where he mysteriously got held to numbers that even the most mediocre WR can put up in the NFL - despite being in the prime of his career.

 

Hell, Nate Burleson outperformed him by a mile with MIN in 2004, and Jermaine freakin' Wiggins almost posted better numbers that year with MIN, and that stud Ronald Curry posted much better numbers than Moss in 2006 in OAK.

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Rice NEVER was a malcontent. Rice NEVER dogged it in practice or game. Rice NEVER played unprepared or took plays off if they weren't coming his way. Rice NEVER got in trouble off the field to sully his teams reputation. Because of this Rice owns many rings and all the respect of any player he competed with or against.

 

Should I go on? Really no comparison.

 

 

All bow to Infallible Pope Jerry Rice the First, the man who has done no wrong!

 

Are you really going to put out all those "nevers"? Dangerous statement. I seem to remember quite a bit of pouting and crying in his Oakland days--you know the times Montana and Young weren't throwing him the ball....

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Physically, Moss may be overall superior to Rice, with better height/leaping ability and top end speed, though not necessarily better off-the-line or 'breakaway' speed. Probably has a better 40 time than Rice too. Don't know about the hands, but I'd give it to Rice there. Until this year, Moss did it with inferior QB talent too.

 

But the biggest difference, obviously, is between the ears and in 'heart'. Translating to character, football intelligence, (esp. knowing how to avoid taking a big hit!) route running, work ethic, etc. All of which served him well, extending his career well past the years that most WRs have to play the game. I have no problem with Moss at #2, but Rice is clearly #1.

 

As a lifelong 49er fan, of course I'm partial to him as the best overall player too, but not totally sure, due to the apple and oranges thing. Ray Lewis, Tom Brady, (assumes they both keep it up for many more years) Jim Brown, Sweetness, Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders, Dick Butkus - its hard to compare....

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