keggerz Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I think that was the turning point of the game (outside fo the PI call). Had they just run a simple handoff with the personnel on the field for 1-2 yards towards the middle of the field, they try a 48-49 yard FG to win it. Instead, they try to get cute with substitution packages, get called for 12-men in the huddle, backing them out of FG range and leading to the fateful final Favre pass. Simply inexcusible. I am pretty sure I saw Favre attempting to call a TO when he noticed there were to many men in the huddle...I think at that point the flag had already been thrown so they "ignored" the TO call...otherwise I think that would have been a penalty on MInny for calling back to back TO's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious_bass Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I think that was the turning point of the game (outside fo the PI call). Had they just run a simple handoff with the personnel on the field for 1-2 yards towards the middle of the field, they try a 48-49 yard FG to win it. Instead, they try to get cute with substitution packages, get called for 12-men in the huddle, backing them out of FG range and leading to the fateful final Favre pass. Simply inexcusible. This At that exact moment in the game, how many scenarios could they even be contemplating on the sideline? IMO, the course of action was clear. You run the ball, hopefully gain a few more yards (and placement in the middle of the hash marks) to set up a FG attempt. You tell your RB to hold the ball like his life depended on it, run the clock down to 0:03, take your last TO, and then you trust your kicker can make the kick. There is NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER for a personnel blunder in that situation. NONE! I am with Gophers assesment on this game. The Vikings overcame the turnovers up to the bad pick. When you absorb the T.O's and are given a reprieve and the ball in the situation that Min had it in at the end of the game you have to put it away. The Favre pick was the dagger. If he hobbles for 5-7 yards , which he very easily could have done, you then have one of the best kickers in the league on deck to try and seal this game. I know the kick is no gaurantee , especially this year, but you at least had a shot to end it , even with all the missed opportunities leading up to that point. Agreed Once they got in FG range for Longwell. you try to get closer but you can NOT do anything to prevent you from at least getting an attempt at the winning kick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Agreed Once they got in FG range for Longwell. you try to get closer but you can NOT do anything to prevent you from at least getting an attempt at the winning kick... To be honest I though the game was over right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Favre cost them at least a chance at a game winning FG . . . not a guarantee, but it was at LEAST a chance . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Vikes turnovers by game: 0,1,1,1,1,0,2,2,2,0,1,2,1,2,2,0,0 and...5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I'd like to hear more from HughOne or anyone else as far as how turnovers are mainly the fault of coaches, because I have a hard time seeing it that way. In my opinion, generally speaking, turnovers, as well as bad penalties, result from a lack of discipline, which is directly related to the head coach. Granted, mistakes can happen, some turnovers are just good defensive plays, but imo poorly coached teams make mistakes when the pressure is on, and that's pretty much what you saw yesterday. 12 men in the huddle? Are ya kidding me? I've said it all along, the Vikes won't win with Childress despite the massive amount of talent they have. I referenced the play during the regular season when he couldn't find his challenge flag, and said a coaching mistake like that can cost you the game, well, unfortuntaley he proved me right last night. And I have no issue with Favre's pick, if there weren't 12 men in the huddle that would have been a running play for 3 yards, a 48 yard FG attempt to win the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 In my opinion, generally speaking, turnovers, as well as bad penalties, result from a lack of discipline, which is directly related to the head coach. Granted, mistakes can happen, some turnovers are just good defensive plays, but imo poorly coached teams make mistakes when the pressure is on, and that's pretty much what you saw yesterday. 12 men in the huddle? Are ya kidding me? I've said it all along, the Vikes won't win with Childress despite the massive amount of talent they have. I referenced the play during the regular season when he couldn't find his challenge flag, and said a coaching mistake like that can cost you the game, well, unfortuntaley he proved me right last night. And I have no issue with Favre's pick, if there weren't 12 men in the huddle that would have been a running play for 3 yards, a 48 yard FG attempt to win the game. There were 2 teams on the field. The Saints were putting their hats on the ball all night. They get a lot of the credit here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 In my opinion, generally speaking, turnovers, as well as bad penalties, result from a lack of discipline, which is directly related to the head coach. Granted, mistakes can happen, some turnovers are just good defensive plays, but imo poorly coached teams make mistakes when the pressure is on, and that's pretty much what you saw yesterday. 12 men in the huddle? Are ya kidding me? I've said it all along, the Vikes won't win with Childress despite the massive amount of talent they have. I referenced the play during the regular season when he couldn't find his challenge flag, and said a coaching mistake like that can cost you the game, well, unfortuntaley he proved me right last night. And I have no issue with Favre's pick, if there weren't 12 men in the huddle that would have been a running play for 3 yards, a 48 yard FG attempt to win the game. Hugh, I REALLY disagree with the turnover analogy. I agree with penalties coming from poorly coached teams, but favre has NEVER been disciplined as a QB . . . and he was coached by a pretty darn good coach in Mike Holmgren. Besides, we all know that Chilly has no influence/power over Favre . . . Give some credit to the Saints defense, they were going after the ball on purpose ALL GAME and it paid off. . . they stripped the ball with a vengeance. If you have no problem with a pick that costs you a chance at a SB appearance instead of just running and sliding . . . well . . . I dont know what to say . . Favre had an opportunity for the safe play, and went for the splashy play. Result: your team doesnt even get a shot to try and win the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Hugh, I REALLY disagree with the turnover analogy. I agree with penalties coming from poorly coached teams, but favre has NEVER been disciplined as a QB . . . and he was coached by a pretty darn good coach in Mike Holmgren. Besides, we all know that Chilly has no influence/power over Favre . . . Give some credit to the Saints defense, they were going after the ball on purpose ALL GAME and it paid off. . . they stripped the ball with a vengeance. If you have no problem with a pick that costs you a chance at a SB appearance instead of just running and sliding . . . well . . . I dont know what to say . . Favre had an opportunity for the safe play, and went for the splashy play. Result: your team doesnt even get a shot to try and win the game. I meant no disrespect to the Saints, MTSuper asked me a question, I answered it. Favre threw 7 pics during the regular season, he played it pretty safe, maybe for the first time in his career, you can't question his discipline this season imo. The only reason he had to try and make a play was because of the penalty. That's my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I meant no disrespect to the Saints, MTSuper asked me a question, I answered it. Favre threw 7 pics during the regular season, he played it pretty safe, maybe for the first time in his career, you can't question his discipline this season imo. The only reason he had to try and make a play was because of the penalty. That's my point. I agree . . . but then are you saying that Chilly is a better coach then every other coach that favre played for because he "only" had 7 picks this year? If turnovers are a result of coaching, then CHilly is a genius. If penalities are a result of a lack of discipline and poor coaching, then Chilly sucks. I lean towards the latter view myself . . penalities are killers . . turnovers can be becasue of stellar play on the defense . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 pad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 He held on for 3 TD's and 130+ yards... Turnovers: Farve - 3 AP - 0 There are lies, damned lies......and statistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I agree . . . but then are you saying that Chilly is a better coach then every other coach that favre played for because he "only" had 7 picks this year? If turnovers are a result of coaching, then CHilly is a genius. If penalities are a result of a lack of discipline and poor coaching, then Chilly sucks. I lean towards the latter view myself . . penalities are killers . . turnovers can be becasue of stellar play on the defense . Well, I'd say that comparing the regular season to the post-season is not a good place to start. I also think a 40 year old also doesn't necessarily get influenced by coaching either. Let's see how Childress does next year when he has no QB again. I also acknowledge in my first post that some turnovers are the result of good defensive plays. Oh, and I'll hang my hat on one thing, Chilly ain't a genius, he's a moran who cost us a chance at the Super Bowl, but luckily he's been signed to a contract extension. Oh goody. Mind you, it was Chilly's genius that got TJax instead of a marquee free agent QB (insert Drew Brees here) 3 years ago. If Brees had come to Minnesota, they probably would have won a Super Bowl already. (Assuming Childress wasn't the coach ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBalata Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 . Favre threw 7 pics during the regular season, he played it pretty safe, maybe for the first time in his career, you can't question his discipline this season imo. Must have been he finally had good coaching! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatman Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Not rubbing salt in and wounds, but I'm glad I don't have to deal with Favre for the next two weeks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Not rubbing salt in and wounds, but I'm glad I don't have to deal with Favre for the next two weeks... You can thank the Victory Pants for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 You can thank the Victory Pants for that. Thank you victory pants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Couch Potatoe Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 At least we'll still have to deal with all the Favre haters enjoying themselves for the next 2 weeks. Everyone says they don't want to hear about it yet all they can talk about is him OVER AND OVER AGAIN! Hate him or love him or both he will still be talked about the next 2 weeks even though he didn't make it to the Superbowl. This is the legend of Mr. Favre and to those who bash him after loving him for so long through so many good and bad times well just be a fan. Players leave organizations for there own reasons and sometimes for other peoples reasons. It happens to everyone and I can say I have never lost any respect for any former 49er who went to another team to end there career. Heck Jerry went across the Bay to one of my most hated teams the Raiders and I rooted for him to do well because of the respect I had for him, his game, and all the great memories he gave me as a 49ers fan. So to you who love to hate him because you feel so scorned by him he will always bleed green and yellow don't forget that. And one day he will be inducted into the HOF in YOUR colors! Will you love him yet again or will you still despise the guy that probably gave you some of your most memorable moments as a Packer fan? Just wondering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 At least we'll still have to deal with all the Favre haters enjoying themselves for the next 2 weeks. Everyone says they don't want to hear about it yet all they can talk about is him OVER AND OVER AGAIN! Hate him or love him or both he will still be talked about the next 2 weeks even though he didn't make it to the Superbowl. This is the legend of Mr. Favre and to those who bash him after loving him for so long through so many good and bad times well just be a fan. Players leave organizations for there own reasons and sometimes for other peoples reasons. It happens to everyone and I can say I have never lost any respect for any former 49er who went to another team to end there career. Heck Jerry went across the Bay to one of my most hated teams the Raiders and I rooted for him to do well because of the respect I had for him, his game, and all the great memories he gave me as a 49ers fan. So to you who love to hate him because you feel so scorned by him he will always bleed green and yellow don't forget that. And one day he will be inducted into the HOF in YOUR colors! Will you love him yet again or will you still despise the guy that probably gave you some of your most memorable moments as a Packer fan? Just wondering I am glad that favre didnt make it to the super bowl because if he DID, then it would have validated his actions that deliberately sidestepped contractual and trade rules regarding player/team relationships. 1- He retired, then came back but wanted to "pick" the the team he could be traded to after the Pack had moved on 2- He went to the team he was traded to (but didnt want to go to) and then retired again. 3- He specifically lobbied to be dropped from the reserve/retired list so that the Jets couldnt hold his contract rights anymore. 4- After the jets gave in (and they had no real reason to do so, besides giving Favre what he wanted) Favre was free to sign for the only team that would put up with his shenanigans and needed a QB to complete a very good team . . . the Vikings. I hate it when players like Elway, Eli Manning, TO and Favre pull this kind of crap when it comes to which team gets the priviledge of paying them millions of dollars every year. Respect the process . . and be thankful for your opportunity. It isnt like you are working in a 3rd world sweatshop and you are being taken advantage of . . . If not, then just have every team just sign one year contracts and start over every year . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Anybody watch this on NFLN Replay? After re-watching the PI call I see that Leber had initiated contact down field after the ball had left. The instant replay didn't show the whole play and at the very least it should have been illegal contact down field. The fact that this play also happened on first down seems to be escaping everyone. Even if no call was made it wasn't as if the drive would have been over. Also, earlier in the series, Ray Edwards drove Brees into the turf on a play that looked very much like the call on Hargrove earlier. The fact that I didn't make that distinction during the actual game only confirms to me that the call on Hargrove never should have been made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Also, earlier in the series, Ray Edwards drove Brees into the turf on a play that looked very much like the call on Hargrove earlier. The fact that I didn't make that distinction during the actual game only confirms to me that the call on Hargrove never should have been made. I had noticed this during the game as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Another call that was in question was the 4th & 1 PT run where the ball came loose. The best angle was actually the backside angle when you knew where the ball was in his body in relation to the down marker. On the replay you can clearly see straight down the first down line to the orange marker on the sideline & you can clearly see that his body is past all the way to his hip before getting pushed back. So, as that shot looked, even with the loose ball, his forward progress was still enough for the 1st down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Another call that was in question was the 4th & 1 PT run where the ball came loose. The best angle was actually the backside angle when you knew where the ball was in his body in relation to the down marker. On the replay you can clearly see straight down the first down line to the orange marker on the sideline & you can clearly see that his body is past all the way to his hip before getting pushed back. So, as that shot looked, even with the loose ball, his forward progress was still enough for the 1st down. Whole non-factor. I too looked at the replay...he broke the plane of the 1st-down marker before ever losing control of the ball. Once he broke the plane, as long as the Saints 'recovered" the ball, it was indeed a 1st down. Similar in natuire to a WR who catches a ball for a 1st down, fumbles it backwards behind the 1st-down marker, and someone on his team recovers. Its still a 1st down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 At least we'll still have to deal with all the Favre haters enjoying themselves for the next 2 weeks. Everyone says they don't want to hear about it yet all they can talk about is him OVER AND OVER AGAIN! Hate him or love him or both he will still be talked about the next 2 weeks even though he didn't make it to the Superbowl. This is the legend of Mr. Favre and to those who bash him after loving him for so long through so many good and bad times well just be a fan. Players leave organizations for there own reasons and sometimes for other peoples reasons. It happens to everyone and I can say I have never lost any respect for any former 49er who went to another team to end there career. Heck Jerry went across the Bay to one of my most hated teams the Raiders and I rooted for him to do well because of the respect I had for him, his game, and all the great memories he gave me as a 49ers fan. So to you who love to hate him because you feel so scorned by him he will always bleed green and yellow don't forget that. And one day he will be inducted into the HOF in YOUR colors! Will you love him yet again or will you still despise the guy that probably gave you some of your most memorable moments as a Packer fan? Just wondering Dude, go away. Do you even realize what you're doing? You're saying youre tired of the Favre bashers posting over and over followed by WORDS IN CAPS LOCK ANGER, and yet, you're making this post over, and over, and over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 I am glad that favre didnt make it to the super bowl because if he DID, then it would have validated his actions that deliberately sidestepped contractual and trade rules regarding player/team relationships. 1- He retired, then came back but wanted to "pick" the the team he could be traded to after the Pack had moved on 2- He went to the team he was traded to (but didnt want to go to) and then retired again. 3- He specifically lobbied to be dropped from the reserve/retired list so that the Jets couldnt hold his contract rights anymore. 4- After the jets gave in (and they had no real reason to do so, besides giving Favre what he wanted) Favre was free to sign for the only team that would put up with his shenanigans and needed a QB to complete a very good team . . . the Vikings. I hate it when players like Elway, Eli Manning, TO and Favre pull this kind of crap when it comes to which team gets the priviledge of paying them millions of dollars every year. Respect the process . . and be thankful for your opportunity. It isnt like you are working in a 3rd world sweatshop and you are being taken advantage of . . . If not, then just have every team just sign one year contracts and start over every year . . . . It's pointless to try and talk to him. He's Ed Hoyles defensive brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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