SNOWBOUND33 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I sense your work will never be done. Someone, somewhere, is likely saying something negative about Tim Tebow. Must keep you pretty damn busy. Oh he's busy. 25 pages worth. And if you make a valid point with him he goes personal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Coming up after the commercial break on NFLN pre game show, the players only meeting with more discussion of Tebow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Who Tebow is off the field has nothing to do with your supposed point. Comparing Elway's first 8 games vs. Tebow's is relevant. Tebow is over-hyped... I get that, but claiming a W-L record isn't valid is ridonkulous. 1st 8 Career Starts Elway Tebow W-L 3-5 5-3 Pass yds 1,041 1,281 TD-Int 3-10 10-4 Rush yds 92 550 Rush TD 1 5 Again. This is about his passing skills. Forget it. You clearly cannot understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I wonder if Tebow is getting this much attention in heaven right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 BB:I want to see Tebow play. If he can improve, I want to see him continue as the DEN starting QB. He's certainly shown some ability in crunch time of games, as well as some real leadership. That's much more than Orton has shown. Orton will never be anything more than a game manager. He has to be surrounded with good talent to win games. Orton is terrible in pressure situations - that's well documented. Orton's had plenty of chances to win games here with the same team (actually better with Lloyd) that Tebow has, and failed miserably. It was miserable for Bronco fans watching Orton continue to find ways to fail at the end of games. Bier:i think game manager for orton sums it up nicely. i don't think he has what it take to carry an offense (we saw that in chi and den). when he had tools around him, he surpassed my expectations of him..posted good ff numbers. i believe cutler is a much better qb and while throwing a lot of ints his last year there, i didn't entirely fault him for it...everyone and their mother knew the broncos would be throwing the ball due to injury at rb and def...and the def was pretty bad. we all knew orton wouldn't do as well in den. i like tebow and hope he can succeed. fortunately they are now in a position to see what his baseline is. BB: That said, if Tebow can't improve and be a good starting QB, I want to see him kicked to the curb and see DEN burn a 1st round pick in the 2012 draft on one of the franchise QBs coming out. If Tebow can't be a good or better starting QB, I'd prefer to see his tenure end in DEN and then allow DEN to move forward. Screw the lost 1st round pick - if he can't be a starter for a decade, find someone who can and do it next year at the latest. Bier: this is what concerns me about tebow.... we all heard about how he was such a hard worker and trying really hard in practice since he entered the draft. well, he really looked terrible yesterday. he is very athletic, but cannot throw the ball well. he missed on a lot of open targets (even short throws) all day. an optimist would say "he can only get better." but a realist says "why can't you hit an open running back at 5 yards away with no one around him? or an open streaking decker (not taz)? BB: I do know that Tebow is a lightning rod, and that he draws criticism from people who want to see him fail for reasons that have nothing to do with football. I think Hoge is one of those guys, so anything he says about Tebow is extremely jaded, IMO. Bier: i am not one of those people I do know that Tebow holds the SEC record for the league's most accurate passer, so the complete dismissal of him as a passing QB seems ludicrous - we're talking about the SEC record holder, not some scrub conference guy who happened to play okay. I think he may be a hard enough worker and have enough of the "it" factor to succeed in the league as a starter, but I'm willing to watch, withhold judgment, and see whether he improves as the season goes on. Bier: ...whcih has to be frustrating watching him miss time and time again BB: I do know that Tebow does not fit the stereotype of a pocket passer, so if you want to make use of his abilities, you need to put him in motion after the snap, use him in the shotgun a bit, allow him to freelance some. Shanahan used a rolling pocket for Plummer and did pretty well - I'm not sure what prevents that now. What DEN did yesterday as far as a gameplan was completely counterproductive to utilizing Tebow's abilities. DEN's O-line was awful yesterday also. The line's protection of Tebow was as bad as Tebow's passing up to the last 5 1/2 minutes. I also know that Tebow's play yesterday was atrocious, regardless of whatever excuse anyone wants to make for him. The guy can put up some top notch FF numbers. He's a mid-range or better FF QB1 until he proves otherwise. Bier: absolutely. without injury or getting benched, i don't see his floor being less than 14 per week with a ceiling around 30. i am only getting into this with you because you dismissed a lot of similar factors leading to losses or poor performance by orton, but used then for tebow. hell, he is just a kid and we can't know the the real potential until he play a bit. it just doesn't look good.... this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 that's fair. i believe that the decision to go with tebow for the rest of the season was a sound one. they were not winning, so really nothing to gain by having orton in there, and it was necessary to see exactly what they have in tebow. i actually saw regression in his 1st 2 games than what i saw from him last year. good to hear he had a positive impact on a game. nothing wrong with some designed runs (we've seen it with cunningham, steve young, vick, mcnair to name a few). to use it as a permanent scheme is dangerous.... but, do it enough and defenses have to respond and he should see more passing lanes as a result. those guys are all quite good, but they all had to learn to throw from the pocket to elevate their games. i don't think tebow has the fundamentals, but if they run enough of those plays, he can buy some more time on his learning curve. i, for one, brought up his imperfect td pass because it was one of only a few highlights i had seen. why do i care?.......... because we have been talking about his skill sets and accuracy for a year or two. i was wondering if he looked any more accurate than his stat line indicated. because even though they scored on that play..on that throw...doesn't mean it was still a good pass. i think decker bailed him out to be honest and we have seen in other games tebow miss open wr's. so i was wondering if was he actually improving (regardless of w/l). i believe that you think we (anyone who doesn't think tebow will be an average starter) live in a black and white world, when it is really something as simple as not liking what we are seeing. i think he has a lot of obstacles to overcome to become average, let alone good. can he move the chains? sometimes. to become a fixture somewhere, he will have to learn how to pass the ball accurately. still my thoughts on him. while not able to post for a week or so, i have been following the thread. frankly, i do not follow college football. one thing i like about it is watching teams run a good. tebow does that well. i hope he can develop his passing skills during this time he is buying until the nfl dc's figure it out. i don't think running this offense is a good long term plan, but it is fun to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_bone65 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Teboners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 They say winning is the best deoderant. That doesn't seem to be helping convince folks that Tebow does not stink. I for one cannot see any team going all in with him. To do so means going against conventional wisdon on where the league is, and where it is going. If Denver designs a team for Tebow and it does not work the reclamation project could take years. Being risk adverse, what coach or GM would really want to go there? I like the kid. He's a refreshingly nice and polite young man. That he wears his religion on his sleeve does not bother me just as it does not bother me when athletes adopt a muslim name or fast during Ramadan. I don't believe Tebow can succeed, especially with folks in his head tinkering with his motion. I suppose there is a infintesimal chance he could if he relaxed about his motion, threw natural, but concentrated on learning the cerebral part of the game. Why does everybody have to have the same motion? I understand that there probably is an ideal motion but lots of athletes in lots of sports excel without an ideal motion or even with a funny motion or swing. I say they let the kid do what comes natural at this point and work on other things. I feel for the kid. He is carrying the weight of a lot of unrealistic hopes based upon his beliefs and his draft position. He has lots of detractors, some annoyed by his belief and some just reasonable observers of his talent level. The kid was put in a bad position by McDaniels having overdrafted him. The Broncos were put in a bad position by McDaniels having overdrafted him. The only folks who have benefitted from this situation are folks who enjoy a spirited debate. Folks like me who can use a foil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 i don't care about his motion, so long as he can actually get the ball there. there have been successful qb's who had poor mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 BB:I want to see Tebow play. If he can improve, I want to see him continue as the DEN starting QB. He's certainly shown some ability in crunch time of games, as well as some real leadership. That's much more than Orton has shown. Orton will never be anything more than a game manager. He has to be surrounded with good talent to win games. Orton is terrible in pressure situations - that's well documented. Orton's had plenty of chances to win games here with the same team (actually better with Lloyd) that Tebow has, and failed miserably. It was miserable for Bronco fans watching Orton continue to find ways to fail at the end of games. Bier:i think game manager for orton sums it up nicely. i don't think he has what it take to carry an offense (we saw that in chi and den). when he had tools around him, he surpassed my expectations of him..posted good ff numbers. i believe cutler is a much better qb and while throwing a lot of ints his last year there, i didn't entirely fault him for it...everyone and their mother knew the broncos would be throwing the ball due to injury at rb and def...and the def was pretty bad. we all knew orton wouldn't do as well in den. i like tebow and hope he can succeed. fortunately they are now in a position to see what his baseline is. BB: That said, if Tebow can't improve and be a good starting QB, I want to see him kicked to the curb and see DEN burn a 1st round pick in the 2012 draft on one of the franchise QBs coming out. If Tebow can't be a good or better starting QB, I'd prefer to see his tenure end in DEN and then allow DEN to move forward. Screw the lost 1st round pick - if he can't be a starter for a decade, find someone who can and do it next year at the latest. Bier: this is what concerns me about tebow.... we all heard about how he was such a hard worker and trying really hard in practice since he entered the draft. well, he really looked terrible yesterday. he is very athletic, but cannot throw the ball well. he missed on a lot of open targets (even short throws) all day. an optimist would say "he can only get better." but a realist says "why can't you hit an open running back at 5 yards away with no one around him? or an open streaking decker (not taz)? BB: I do know that Tebow is a lightning rod, and that he draws criticism from people who want to see him fail for reasons that have nothing to do with football. I think Hoge is one of those guys, so anything he says about Tebow is extremely jaded, IMO. Bier: i am not one of those people I do know that Tebow holds the SEC record for the league's most accurate passer, so the complete dismissal of him as a passing QB seems ludicrous - we're talking about the SEC record holder, not some scrub conference guy who happened to play okay. I think he may be a hard enough worker and have enough of the "it" factor to succeed in the league as a starter, but I'm willing to watch, withhold judgment, and see whether he improves as the season goes on. Bier: ...whcih has to be frustrating watching him miss time and time again BB: I do know that Tebow does not fit the stereotype of a pocket passer, so if you want to make use of his abilities, you need to put him in motion after the snap, use him in the shotgun a bit, allow him to freelance some. Shanahan used a rolling pocket for Plummer and did pretty well - I'm not sure what prevents that now. What DEN did yesterday as far as a gameplan was completely counterproductive to utilizing Tebow's abilities. DEN's O-line was awful yesterday also. The line's protection of Tebow was as bad as Tebow's passing up to the last 5 1/2 minutes. I also know that Tebow's play yesterday was atrocious, regardless of whatever excuse anyone wants to make for him. The guy can put up some top notch FF numbers. He's a mid-range or better FF QB1 until he proves otherwise. Bier: absolutely. without injury or getting benched, i don't see his floor being less than 14 per week with a ceiling around 30. i am only getting into this with you because you dismissed a lot of similar factors leading to losses or poor performance by orton, but used then for tebow. hell, he is just a kid and we can't know the the real potential until he play a bit. it just doesn't look good.... this week. Well done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I see a lot of talking, but no stepping up. Reminds me of the DL that celebrates a sack with a cute little dance when their team is down by 3 TDs in the 4th quarter. Dont bring Jared Allen into this...:mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 They say winning is the best deoderant. That doesn't seem to be helping convince folks that Tebow does not stink. Tebow the passer does absolutely stink at this point i don't care about his motion, so long as he can actually get the ball there. there have been successful qb's who had poor mechanics. exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 "If you have ever cheered for Elway, you have probably masturbated to Sarah Parker Jessica's horseface as well." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddahj Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 "If you have ever cheered for Elway, you have probably masturbated to Sarah Parker Jessica's horseface as well." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 "If you have ever cheered for Elway, you have probably masturbated to Sarah Parker Jessica's horseface as well." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 "I would've won two Super Bowls turning left and handing the ball to TD watching him run, too. F'n loser." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Elway seems to be getting quite a bit of flack about his comments on Tebow...not sure why people are so up in arms saying what if Tebow goes 9-7 or wins a playoff game...for bit of perspective, in 2000 Dilfer took over for Banks, went on to win the SB and the following year the Ravens released Dilfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargerz Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Tebow's coming to Chargertown this week!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 sounds like elway is trying to be tebow's dan reeves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh B Tool Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 "I would've won two Super Bowls turning left and handing the ball to TD watching him run, too. F'n loser." Dude, Elway left more athleticism on his sheets last night than you will ever have. Tebow is a friggin winner for sure. He will be hurt before the end of the season, as he will get blownup by a Defense sick of hearing the accolades of how, when he wants to he can't be stopped. He can and will be, and injury will be the culprit. There will be blood, question is how long will the cameras stay on the heroic, bloodied Tebow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Dude, Elway left more athleticism on his sheets last night than you will ever have. Tebow is a friggin winner for sure. He will be hurt before the end of the season, as he will get blownup by a Defense sick of hearing the accolades of how, when he wants to he can't be stopped. He can and will be, and injury will be the culprit. There will be blood, question is how long will the cameras stay on the heroic, bloodied Tebow. So on Sunday i may see the body and the blood? Where have I heard that before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 He will be hurt before the end of the season, as he will get blownup by a Defense sick of hearing the accolades of how, when he wants to he can't be stopped. He can and will be, and injury will be the culprit. There will be blood, question is how long will the cameras stay on the heroic, bloodied Tebow. Wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 He will be hurt before the end of the season, as he will get blownup by a Defense sick of hearing the accolades of how, when he wants to he can't be stopped. He can and will be, and injury will be the culprit. There will be blood, question is how long will the cameras stay on the heroic, bloodied Tebow. Well, there's a rather unfortunate sentiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Miscreant Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) I like the kid and he's damn fun to watch, which is precisely why I stayed up to watch the end of the Jets game. Damn fun! Granted the bulk of most games so far have been down right painful but dude just seems to make it happen when it has to happen. From a FF perspective I simply can't trust that the late game heroics will continue to reward us with enough points to make him worth a start. I'm not saying it won't continue but I'm just not willing to take that chance down the stretch when I have another quality QB. If DEN would open things up just a bit I might change my mind. As for his prospects in the future, if he doesn't show dramatic change in his ability to run a pro offense, which is in large part on the OC, then it doesn't look good. Got to agree that it doesn't make sense for a franchise to build around what is for all intents and purposes a gimmick. As for his impending physical demise, again I'm not saying it won't happen but Tebow neither plays like a typical NFL QB nor is he put together like one. We're not talking about the running QBs we're used to. The guy is built like a linebacker. How many running QBs, past or present, have you seen run through tackles? Now, his O-line might get him killed in the pocket but other than that and barring something that could happen to any runner he is a physical, durable football player. Edited November 23, 2011 by BS Miscreant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I think this is a good time to debate whether Cutler would have been a better fit for Denver right now than Tebow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.