We are not watching football anymore

[stevegrab]

I don't think it was about it being Campbell and not Brees. I think that calls are missed and that makes it seem like they aren't being enforced consistently. Calls of all types get missed, but the QB is the one with the camera on him 90% of the time so it's easier to criticize the missed calls. I've also said this numerous times, but slo-mo makes missed calls seem 1000% worse...Refs don't get the luxury of seeing the replay before they throw a flag. Sure they get to review certain plays that are challenged but we aren't talking about those types of plays.

 

Exactly we've discussed this already, calls are missed all the time, that doesn't mean Brees gets preferential treatment and peons like Campbell never get a call. (But I wouldn't argue that some players teams don't get special treatment.)

 

I saw it and thought it should have been called, but wasn't that obvious in real time (seeing his hand hit the face mask). Could not tell if the ref was obstructed (though that did happen in the MNF game last week when people were screaming that the ref missed it).

 

 

They ought to make these roughing calls reviewable. Booth only.

 

Really, you don't think NFL games are long enough now, and move slowly at various times. We should have more review. So any play that appears close to an illegal hit (or just the high/low hits on QBs, what about late hits, face mask, etc) the booth will look at it, then buzz the ref to go review it if they think its needed.

[Bronco Billy]

They ought to make these roughing calls reviewable. Booth only.

 

 

No. Holy Hell, aren't there enough freakin' replay interruptions?

 

As to missed calls - if it's close or in a pile, I get missing it and it doesn't bug me at all. I've played enough and reffed enough to know that happens and understand it. It's the calls out in the open with no obstructions or distractions that guys miss - or make up, which is just as bad - that drive me nuts. That's incompetence, plain and simple.

[stevegrab]

No. Holy Hell, aren't there enough freakin' replay interruptions?

 

As to missed calls - if it's close or in a pile, I get missing it and it doesn't bug me at all. I've played enough and reffed enough to know that happens and understand it. It's the calls out in the open with no obstructions or distractions that guys miss - or make up, which is just as bad - that drive me nuts. That's incompetence, plain and simple.

 

If you reffed a lot sure you had that happen to you. Refs are human, mistakes will happen. Its amplified with 100 camera angles, super slo-mo and millions of eyes watching. Followed by days of debates online.

 

Saying it is incompetence is overly harsh, it would assume that refs are not fallable somehow. Are you (or I) incompetent when we make a mistake in our jobs?

[whomper]

Exactly we've discussed this already, calls are missed all the time, that doesn't mean Brees gets preferential treatment and peons like Campbell never get a call. (But I wouldn't argue that some players teams don't get special treatment.)

 

 

You can bet your ass some qbs will get calls over others. In the Sunday night game I actually saw a ref help Tom Brady get up after he took a hit. I don't think I have ever seen that before

[Bronco Billy]

 

If you reffed a lot sure you had that happen to you. Refs are human, mistakes will happen. Its amplified with 100 camera angles, super slo-mo and millions of eyes watching. Followed by days of debates online.

 

Saying it is incompetence is overly harsh, it would assume that refs are not fallable somehow. Are you (or I) incompetent when we make a mistake in our jobs?

 

 

Yeah, it did happen every once in a while, and when it did the first thing I did was to go to the coach of the team that got hosed and I let him know I missed it. Most guys were good about it and understood, but a couple went off - and I took it because I deserved it.

 

But then I wasn't reffing at the top level of the profession, either. The standards there are a bit higher and the judgment is supposed to be much better. Don't you think?

 

Again, and I feel the need to reiterate since I distinctly get the feeling you did not read it, as is your wont - I am talking about the overt stuff out in the open, not the close calls and/or with a lot of traffic around.

 

And yes, some levels of mistakes in my current profession carry liability with them because there is a level of incompetence when they are made. Not all mistakes, just as with professional refs, but some gross and egregious ones.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2013 by Bronco Billy

[stevegrab]

You can bet your ass some qbs will get calls over others. In the Sunday night game I actually saw a ref help Tom Brady get up after he took a hit. I don't think I have ever seen that before

 

Yep I've seen that too, but with more than just Brady. Probably happens with a lot of players that we don't see because of what the TV cameras show.

[stevegrab]

Yeah, it did happen every once in a while, and when it did the first thing I did was to go to the coach of the team that got hosed and I let him know I missed it. Most guys were good about it and understood, but a couple went off - and I took it because I deserved it.

 

But then I wasn't reffing at the top level of the profession, either. The standards there are a bit higher and the judgment is supposed to be much better. Don't you think?

 

You sound like a good ref. At higher leves if/when they admit mistakes they seem to take more heat (press, fans). Sure the standards (or at least expectations) are higher. But in the end they are still human and will still make mistakes and miss calls or make bad calls. Happens in every sport, and it gets old listening to people rip on the refs all the time as if they expect them to call a perfect game.

 

Replace them with robots and we'll eliminate all inconsistency and favoritism (as well as human judgement). I think there is something to that, using technology to do stuff like spot the ball at the end of play would be very accurate and remove some mistakes. But I'm not ready for full robo-refs.

[whomper]

Yep I've seen that too, but with more than just Brady. Probably happens with a lot of players that we don't see because of what the TV cameras show.

I forgot to mention that the ref also made Brady a Sammich

[whomper]

I would rather have this as reviewable than have bad calls. a 15 yarder is a brutal penalty.

[stevegrab]

I forgot to mention that the ref also made Brady a Sammich

Turkey or ham?

 

I hate the idea of reviewing hits like this, it is another step in the direction of reviewing every call and making the game unwatchable. I'd rather listen to people complain about bad refs and inconsistent enforcement than have every suspect hit cause a 5 minute delay in the game while they figure it out.

[Bobby Brown]

We don't need to go down the road of reviewing judgment calls. Behind changing the whole premise of irrefutable evidence; fans still wouldn't like the review decisions on top of additional cumbersome delays.

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[BA Baracus]

Really, you don't think NFL games are long enough now, and move slowly at various times. We should have more review. So any play that appears close to an illegal hit (or just the high/low hits on QBs, what about late hits, face mask, etc) the booth will look at it, then buzz the ref to go review it if they think its needed.

 

 

These are huge, game changing calls. They would reduce the errors on these calls to nearly zero via reviews and the rules would then be consistently enforced. I think that the call for review would have to come from the booth, no coach's challenges. I think that it would be worth the time to review it rather than wrongly change the outcome of the game. I expect that most of the time there would be no review required, so there would likely be little to no impact to game pacing.

[stevegrab]

These are huge, game changing calls. They would reduce the errors on these calls to nearly zero via reviews and the rules would then be consistently enforced. I think that the call for review would have to come from the booth, no coach's challenges. I think that it would be worth the time to review it rather than wrongly change the outcome of the game. I expect that most of the time there would be no review required, so there would likely be little to no impact to game pacing.

 

I'd be willing to try that experiment for the preseason and see how it goes before adding it for a full season. And would it be just for illegal hits on QBs? Or any 15 yard type penalty (late hit, unnec roughness, etc.)?

 

I think in the end people will still complain, it will just be about a different "bad call", and then the solution will "allow it be reviewed."

 

PI is a huge game changing call, and it is missed or called incorrectly, shouldn't that be reviewed.

 

Sorry cannot keep myself off the slippery slope once you start opening these up to review.

[MustOfBeenDrunk]

Does FF create a larger TV audience for the NFL ?

If you think yes and the audience (ratings received) goes up because of FF , then is it farfetched to think the NFL creates rules to increase FF activity

[stevegrab]

Does FF create a larger TV audience for the NFL ?

If you think yes and the audience (ratings received) goes up because of FF , then is it farfetched to think the NFL creates rules to increase FF activity

More offense generally creates more ratings. More scoring benefits FF, and I know from the posts here that some people watch more games because of FF.

 

I was watching the NFLN A Football Life - The Forward Pass and thinking about how boring those games back before the forward pass. Of course we've come a long way since then with more and more rule and other changes to make increase scoring.

[MustOfBeenDrunk]

More offense generally creates more ratings. More scoring benefits FF, and I know from the posts here that some people watch more games because of FF.

 

I was watching the NFLN A Football Life - The Forward Pass and thinking about how boring those games back before the forward pass. Of course we've come a long way since then with more and more rule and other changes to make increase scoring.

 

I believe this is necessary because we no longer play the game in a mud bowl like in the past ,

 

I remember when growing up watching the Vikes before the dome and never cared if it ended 10-7 because there was so much entertainment watching them get to 10 pts

 

It is very difficult to find an entertaining 10 - 7 game today because most of the time its because of bad offense instead of good def.

[Bronco Billy]

 

More offense generally creates more ratings. More scoring benefits FF, and I know from the posts here that some people watch more games because of FF.

 

I was watching the NFLN A Football Life - The Forward Pass and thinking about how boring those games back before the forward pass. Of course we've come a long way since then with more and more rule and other changes to make increase scoring.

 

 

Good points, but as a lifelong football fan my feeling is that the pendulum has swung way too far to to point of diminishing the game. Handcuffing the D so dramatically is making the NFL start to look like arena football. There is great value and drama in allowing the D to do its job.

[BA Baracus]

 

I'd be willing to try that experiment for the preseason and see how it goes before adding it for a full season. And would it be just for illegal hits on QBs? Or any 15 yard type penalty (late hit, unnec roughness, etc.)?

 

I think in the end people will still complain, it will just be about a different "bad call", and then the solution will "allow it be reviewed."

 

PI is a huge game changing call, and it is missed or called incorrectly, shouldn't that be reviewed.

 

Sorry cannot keep myself off the slippery slope once you start opening these up to review.

 

 

I have always thought that PI should be reviewed if the officials want to take a second look.

 

I wouldnt want to see all roughing call reviewed, just these new blow to the head calls where it is such a black and white thing

[BA Baracus]

 

 

Good points, but as a lifelong football fan my feeling is that the pendulum has swung way too far to to point of diminishing the game. Handcuffing the D so dramatically is making the NFL start to look like arena football. There is great value and drama in allowing the D to do its job.

 

 

Agreed

[rajncajn]

Ahmad Brooks being interviewed on Mike & Mike this morning said that he knew he hit Brees in the neck and quickly looked to see if the ref had seen it & when he saw the flag thought, "Damn, I got caught."

Edited November 27, 2013 by rajncajn

[BA Baracus]

Taking that TD away from Bell is possibly the worst outcome of a safety rule ever. Terrible!!!!!

[bdub1988]

Pure idiocy. That rule actually encourages defenders to try to knock the ball carrier's helmet off to stop a play. In some circumstances it completely undermines safety.

[BA Baracus]

I can understand not letting a guy keep running after his helmet comes off...but a guy diving should get the forward progress of the dive.

 

That rule needs to be fixed to address that situation because that ruling is against everything that football is about.

[Cowboyz1]

Hey I'm all for doing anything that keeps refs honest. As a Cowboy fan, I gotta tell ya,I swear I saw a ref shake his hands behind Romo and say BOO just as he was throwing it. Then got mad that it didn't dissuade him from making a good throw to Witten so he threw a flag on Witten for a ghost offensive PI.

[Cowboyz1]

Taking that TD away from Bell is possibly the worst outcome of a safety rule ever. Terrible!!!!!

 

 

Absolutely, the guy gets put to sleep but holds on to the ball long enough for the score. That has to be rewarded with a Touchdown. As many times as I have seen a guy go limp and lose the ball at the point of contact, that was a mans play and to come away empty is a shame. May have taken years of the kids life to score yet sends the message to defenders to take the guys head off to kill the play. Nice NFL, sometimes you have to use your head like Bell did when making calls.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Cowboyz1