Alright, I've had it with guns already!

[stevegrab]

59 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

That's an illegal purchase. It all must be done by a FFL Dealer, even if given to you. That's every State

Every gun has a serial number that belongs to the purchaser 

Really, every gun must go thru an FFL dealer? And has a background check? Or else its an illegal gun sale? In every state? 

A private citizen cannot legally sell a gun to another person? They have to go thru a dealer?

According to the link below a private seller in Ohio is not required to do a background check. Says nothing about the sale being illegal.

https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/background-check-procedures-in-ohio/

Online gun sales also don't require a background check, are those also illegal? 

Sorry not buying your pat answer that no guns are legally sold without a background check. Otherwise nobody would be pushing for what is called Universal Background Checks. 

[League_Champion]

2 hours ago, stevegrab said:

According to the link below a private seller in Ohio is not required to do a background check. Says nothing about the sale being illegal.

A "Private Sale" MUST be done by a 3rd party, Federal Firearms Dealer. You CANNOT give a gun to someone, sell or buy one on craigslist or other. ALL GUNS MUST BE REGISTERED OR THEY ARE ILLEGAL. 

[rajncajn]

1 hour ago, League_Champion said:

A "Private Sale" MUST be done by a 3rd party, Federal Firearms Dealer. You CANNOT give a gun to someone, sell or buy one on craigslist or other. ALL GUNS MUST BE REGISTERED OR THEY ARE ILLEGAL. 

Not that way in Mississippi. I can purchase a gun and gift it to whomever I want.

[League_Champion]

8 hours ago, rajncajn said:

Not that way in Mississippi. I can purchase a gun and gift it to whomever I want.

Yes, but they must register it with a Federal Firearm Dealer thereafter. ALL GUNS MUST BE REGISTERED FEDERALLY REGARDLESS OF HOW PURCHASED. So if you just give your Buddy your gun, that serial number is still registered to you until transfered. It's still your gun. 

[rajncajn]

45 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

Yes, but they must register it with a Federal Firearm Dealer thereafter. ALL GUNS MUST BE REGISTERED FEDERALLY REGARDLESS OF HOW PURCHASED. So if you just give your Buddy your gun, that serial number is still registered to you until transfered. It's still your gun. 

Not if they live in Mississippi. The only states that require you to use a firearms dealer are California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington State and DC.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/if-youre-giving-a-gun-as-a-gift-this-year-make-sure-you-do-it-right-and-legally/

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by rajncajn

[stevegrab]

6 hours ago, rajncajn said:

Not if they live in Mississippi. The only states that require you to use a firearms dealer are California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington State and DC.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/if-youre-giving-a-gun-as-a-gift-this-year-make-sure-you-do-it-right-and-legally/

 

 

 

Thank you for actual facts, I knew LC was feeding us a line of BS. That is 8 states and DC, far from "all states" and amounts to about 25% (85M) of the total US population. 

I've read plenty about sales at gun shows by private sellers that do not require any background check or registration. (Maybe that has changed since then.) But also about giving guns to others not requiring any sort of registration, background check or any paper work.  You know because all of that just gives the the evil government a list of who to come confiscate guns from.

[stevegrab]

6 hours ago, rajncajn said:

Not if they live in Mississippi. The only states that require you to use a firearms dealer are California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington State and DC.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/if-youre-giving-a-gun-as-a-gift-this-year-make-sure-you-do-it-right-and-legally/

 

 

 

I've got to say, the comments being made on that article by the supposedly "law abiding" gun owners in this nation are troubling. Apparently many of them think that the laws are meant to be broken. Which means they are no longer law abiding, just not yet arrested and convicted for their crimes. 

That is why I  when people talk about "law abiding citizen gun owners". 

[1fastdoc]

9 hours ago, League_Champion said:

Yes, but they must register it with a Federal Firearm Dealer thereafter. ALL GUNS MUST BE REGISTERED FEDERALLY REGARDLESS OF HOW PURCHASED. So if you just give your Buddy your gun, that serial number is still registered to you until transfered. It's still your gun. 

That is patently false.  Moreover, in TN, when the gun is sold new by a licensed dealer, the paperwork is destroyed later (I think it's a week but I don't recall).  A friend of mine owns a larger range and gun store here that sells pretty much everything.  Point is, there is no maintained registry for gun serial numbers once the gun is sold to a private party.  

The  only thing someone cannot do is buy a gun solely for the intent of giving or selling it to another person who cannot buy it for themselves.  That is a straw man purchase.

[rajncajn]

2 hours ago, stevegrab said:

I've got to say, the comments being made on that article by the supposedly "law abiding" gun owners in this nation are troubling. Apparently many of them think that the laws are meant to be broken. Which means they are no longer law abiding, just not yet arrested and convicted for their crimes. 

That is why I  when people talk about "law abiding citizen gun owners". 

You can't believe anything you read in comments sections. The large majority of it is bots, trolls and people who just want to play on your confirmation bias. 

[Bobby Brown]

12 hours ago, 1fastdoc said:

That is patently false.  

LC used CAPS though.  He is patently false by nature.

[stevegrab]

22 hours ago, rajncajn said:

You can't believe anything you read in comments sections. The large majority of it is bots, trolls and people who just want to play on your confirmation bias. 

Sure that's generally true, but would that also then apply to comments posted here? I mean we've seen patently false claims already.

The "truth about guns" site wasn't some main stream media site where people go to spread misinformation. So I'd think its more actual opinions, even if they are just whistling out their rears and wouldn't do the tough guy stuff they claim. 

[rajncajn]

4 hours ago, stevegrab said:

Sure that's generally true, but would that also then apply to comments posted here? I mean we've seen patently false claims already.

The "truth about guns" site wasn't some main stream media site where people go to spread misinformation. So I'd think its more actual opinions, even if they are just whistling out their rears and wouldn't do the tough guy stuff they claim. 

That's completely different. Most message boards are moderated. Comment sections typically are not. 

[stevegrab]

Another mass shooting, no way those happen so rarely. Cue the thoughts and prayers along with the "stop trying to take my guns away". And of course "the gun didn't do it"  but nevermind the gun sure made it a lot easier to do harm. If people don't need a gun to be violent why do others need guns to protect themselves? Why not just carry a knife or a club, or run them over with your car? I mean they're all weapons and equally lethal.

https://apnews.com/article/downtown-louisville-shooting-dc7b45a9c5d2b384a16d653864f8b735

No I don't expect a rational discussion. 

[FinishTheDrill]

On 3/30/2023 at 12:41 PM, Bobby Brown said:

Apparently Joel Berry forgot you also need a mass amount of guns to become a mass shooter factory. 

 

 

No, you dont.  Joel is on point.   

[FinishTheDrill]

On 3/27/2023 at 7:47 PM, Bobby Brown said:

 imaginary media bias 

 

🤣

[Bobby Brown]

6 hours ago, FinishTheDrill said:

 

No, you dont.  Joel is on point.   

The US has an obscene amount of mass shootings relative to every other developed country.  And the reason is because the US public education system installs an evil ideology and big pharmaceuticals target US citizens to make them clinically insane?

That sounds like bat chit crazy conspiracy right wing kookoo drivel.  But I’d love to have you unpack that with fact based rationale and evidence.

Discuss.  

[FinishTheDrill]

On 4/6/2023 at 6:23 AM, rajncajn said:

Not if they live in Mississippi. The only states that require you to use a firearms dealer are California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington State and DC.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/if-youre-giving-a-gun-as-a-gift-this-year-make-sure-you-do-it-right-and-legally/

 

 

 

Incorrect.  There is no legal means to transfer a firearm from one to another person in NJ without going through an FFL/registering it via a 4473.   All transfers require filing of a 4473 in NJ and going through an FFL to do so. 

 

(ok, one.  The only exception being inheritance from deceased.  )

[FinishTheDrill]

1 hour ago, Bobby Brown said:

The US has an obscene amount of mass shootings relative to every other developed country.  And the reason is because the US public education system installs an evil ideology and big pharmaceuticals target US citizens to make them clinically insane?

That sounds like bat chit crazy conspiracy right wing kookoo drivel.  But I’d love to have you unpack that with fact based rationale and evidence.

Discuss.  

Parts of the US are experiencing a terrible, horrific, terrifying decline in culture to the extent that they are, for all intents and purposes, no longer qualifying as "developed".   Therefore I find the comparison a limiting one. 

Big spam (i like that term!) is by no means the cause of the problem, however they sure as hell contribute greatly.  Parents, poor parenting skills, acceptance and promotion of an unsustainable counterproductive culture that is embraced more and more, and failures at teaching resilience are the cause.  Our kids today are damaged because in large part their parents are failures.  School and marketing (pharms.Dr's) contribute, but it all comes back to parenting.  

Perhaps we should consider regulating things like guns, medications, and procreation.  

[FinishTheDrill]

1 hour ago, Bobby Brown said:

 

That sounds like bat chit crazy conspiracy right wing kookoo drivel.  But I’d love to have you unpack that with fact based rationale and evidence.

Discuss.  

 

Sorry, I didnt see the second half of your post.  I dont really care what you'd like to see.  It matters very, very little to me.  

 

Right wing kook drivel?  lol.  ok.   You blame guns.  I'll blame parents and adults who raised and released horrible people.  

[FinishTheDrill]

1 hour ago, Bobby Brown said:

 

Discuss.  

Joel was pretty much right.  

[FinishTheDrill]

On 4/6/2023 at 12:50 PM, stevegrab said:

Thank you for actual facts, I knew LC was feeding us a line of BS.

 

You would do well to consider who/what else feeds you a line of BS.  

[Bobby Brown]

54 minutes ago, FinishTheDrill said:

 

 You blame guns.  

I did not say that.  That's an imaginary opinion you came up with by yourself.  This is known as a strawman fallacy and tends to be utilized by those who are ill equipped for actual discourse on a given issue.  

Availability and access to guns are part of the equation that contributes to gun violence.  Any rational level-headed person knows this.  Unfortunately political tribalism can eliminate logic.  And watching people go through mental gymnastics to pretend guns aren't correlated to gun violence is a symptom of political tribalism uniquely isolated to far right wackadoos. 

It's clear we aren't going to have an evidence based discussion on the accuracy (or lack thereof) of Joel Berry's statement.  And that gives me the sadz.

[Bobby Brown]

1 hour ago, FinishTheDrill said:

 

You would do well to consider who/what else feeds you a line of BS.  

So if I want to be smarterer, I need to believe what a random political hack on twitter says?

[FinishTheDrill]

3 minutes ago, Bobby Brown said:

So if I want to be smarterer, I need to believe what a random political hack on twitter says?

Strawman says what?

[Bobby Brown]

9 minutes ago, FinishTheDrill said:

Strawman says what?

I was simply asking for a clarification of your position.  That is not a strawman.  Unless there is an alternative definition I'm not aware of. 

When you said "a line of BS," can you provide what line of BS I posted and provide evidence of what I posted isn't true?  I greatly look forward to your well reasoned and fact based reply.