spain Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 My company has an opening for a juicy money making spot in east Tennessee. I live in Nashville and would have to move to Knoxville to take this spot. I have never lived there but am from Nashville. It would put us halfway between here parents and my parents which would be good. My parents live in Nashville and hers live in North Carolina. Here is the deal, a guy that works in my office in Nashville who has the same position as the open spot, wants to transfer to Knoxville for that role. That would leave his spot here in Nashville open. I called the VP and told him if "Steve" moved to Knoxville, I wanted his job in Nashville. He told me he wasnt going to let Steve transfer to Knoxville. He needs somebody alot more aggressive in the east Tennessee spot. I said, "ok, thanks". Didnt think anything else about it. A couple days later, I get a call from the person who essentially makes the call on who gets the job in Knoxville. I would have a dotted line to her in that role. She wants me to move there. I told her I might be interested if the money was right. She said to think about it and get back to her. I sent her an email later that day and said I would absolutely need the following to consider a move: 1. Fat relocation package 2. Big Bump in base pay 3. Wife would have to be able to transfer She called me back and said, "I want you in that roll. But since it isnt really a "promotion" but simply a lateral move, dont know if I can get you a relo package." So, I say, "I think strategically it makes sense for the company to have me in that role. But I aint paying $10k out of my own pocket to move to east Tennessee when I have a bird nest on the ground where I am. So, lets end the conversation and I will just stay put". She sort of flinched when she saw I was playing hard ball and said she was going to "go to bat for me". We left it at that. Then I get a call from my current boss. He is a complete moran. Idiot of the highest order, bad instincts, uncoachable, and I have no idea why he is where he is. He asks me if I really want the job in Knoxville. Keep in mind, that he would still be in my chain of command if I move, but I will have ALOT less contact with him there. I say, "yes, it makes alot of sense for the company to move me there. And if I were you, the General marshalling my assets, I would find a way to get it done. But you will have to relocate me and increase my base pay to make it happen". He says, "we arent going to pay to relocate you". I reply, "then lets not discuss it any further". he then says, "but if you really want this job, I will help you get it". I reply, "then get me a relo package". He says, "I cant do that". Then I say, "then you cant help me get the job. Lets end this conversation as it is meaningless given your stance". We leave it at that. Next time he sees me he mentions it again. I tell him I aint interested in digging into my pocket to help the company out of a tight spot. He then says, "well, I am going to make some calls to see what we can do". Then I say, "dont do me any favors. I am fine here in Nashville". Today I get a call from the lady who wants me for the job. She says, "has anybody contacted you about Knoxville?" I say, "no, I've moved on". She replies, "they are working on you a relocation package right now. I say, "well, I'll have to take a look at the whole thing." She says, "we have to have you in Knoxville. This has gone to the highest levels of the company. I expect you to be getting an offer this week". I say, "well, yes, sure, let me see what happens but I aint calling anybody just yet". Then I call a contact in Knoxville who tells me this lady is already telling people, internally and externally, that I am the new person there" I hold all the cards in this situation. They desperately need me to move the 3 hours east to be in that market. I dont have to move but really hate this assholio that I work for. the new job should make me alot more $$ but alot more work initially. What else should I demand from the company? Any thoughts on this sort of transfer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 OK, I hate most of your political/social views, but you, sir, are a damn fine negotiator. First class. Must be what makes you good a poker player. Kudos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I am sure you have thought about all this in depth... but..... What about the house you just bought? What about the wife and her job? What about the fact of not being close to your boss so that you can deflect his day to day worthlessness? Hold your hard stance.... 'cause it appears to me that they are going to give in. I am sure you have looked at the overall picture....but you sure seemed happy with your current location and situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 What else should I demand from the company? Any thoughts on this sort of transfer? There is nothing reasonable that I can think of. I'd do exactly what you are doing. Say 'no' until they pass you an offer that you simply cannot refuse. If they want you they will keep on bumping the deal until they cannot any more. Any chance of getting some stock or options out of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 I am sure you have thought about all this in depth... but..... What about the house you just bought? What about the wife and her job? What about the fact of not being close to your boss so that you can deflect his day to day worthlessness? Hold your hard stance.... 'cause it appears to me that they are going to give in. I am sure you have looked at the overall picture....but you sure seemed happy with your current location and situation. My wife can transfer with her company, so thats not an issue. She loves the challenge of finding and/or building a new house, so thats not an issue. Plus, we will be closer to her mom who we rarely go see now. As far as my boss is concerned, I think his days are numbered. But I am not too concerned with him one way or the other. I have been happy every place I have ever lived. I am happy here and will be happy there. Its just a matter of whether it makes sense for us which we are talking through. As far as the package, they cant low ball me because I dont need to move. They low ball me and I will really play hardball. They need me there ALOT more than I need to be there. I hate managers in large buinesses who try to get you for the absolute cheapest they can. But I will hold out for the maximum and see how bad they want me. If they arent willing to pay, then they really dont want me enough to move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 Any chance of getting some stock or options out of this? Unfortunately, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 My wife can transfer with her company, so thats not an issue. She loves the challenge of finding and/or building a new house, so thats not an issue. Plus, we will be closer to her mom who we rarely go see now. As far as my boss is concerned, I think his days are numbered. But I am not too concerned with him one way or the other. I have been happy every place I have ever lived. I am happy here and will be happy there. Its just a matter of whether it makes sense for us which we are talking through. As far as the package, they cant low ball me because I dont need to move. They low ball me and I will really play hardball. They need me there ALOT more than I need to be there. I hate managers in large buinesses who try to get you for the absolute cheapest they can. But I will hold out for the maximum and see how bad they want me. If they arent willing to pay, then they really dont want me enough to move. Roger that. The move isn't going to mess with your annual winning of the Carib cruise is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I hold all the cards in this situation. They desperately need me to move the 3 hours east to be in that market. I dont have to move but really hate this assholio that I work for. the new job should make me alot more $$ but alot more work initially. What else should I demand from the company? Any thoughts on this sort of transfer? I am assuming this would mean a lot more hours at the office initially too? If you are salary I wouldn't like not getting paid for the extra hours at the office and not to mention extra hours away from the family during the time you would be attempting settle in your new home. I would see if you could negotiate some comp time to take at a later date to compensate the extra hours that you work initially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 One thing to consider is have the company buy your current house at fair market value if you move and have them sell it - that way you won't have to carry 2 mortages or pay utilities on the old house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 One thing to consider is have the company buy your current house at fair market value if you move and have them sell it - that way you won't have to carry 2 mortages or pay utilities on the old house. Good call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 A lot of times our company pays for moving expenses, closing costs and putting you up at a (nicer) hotel until you close over and beyond the relocation costs. I'm not advising you to get greedy, but it's out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trots Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 company car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Good call. No doubt. That might be the best thing (except moving costs) that the company could do for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 So Whataburger really needs a manager in Knoxville that bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Southwest doesn't fly out of Knoxville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 We've all given you a "relocation package" at some point in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 OK, I hate most of your political/social views, but you, sir, are a damn fine negotiator. First class. Must be what makes you good a poker player. Kudos. The key, in my opinion, is to always know where you are in terms of strength relative to the other party. Lots of folks will sell their house too cheaply because they are afraid that nobody else will come along. So, out of fear, they take lowball offers, or offers that are significantly less than what they could get if they showed strength. I like to negoiate from a position of strength, scaring the other person into thinking that I can go to another option. So, they will have to accept my terms or nothing. If I dont get what I think is fair, I wont ever take a deal out of fear of nothing ever coming along later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Shame your company does not have an office in darfur ...you would be perfect there ...lol On a serious note , make sure this is what you want ..when it comes to moving for work and picking up family and leaving my personal view is that it really has to be worth it ( not just the more money aspect ) ...that its a place you want to be , has the things you enjoy outside work , etc ...good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 Southwest doesn't fly out of Knoxville. Allegiant Air to Vegas is $200 roundtrip!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Then I get a call from my current boss. He is a complete moran. Idiot of the highest order, bad instincts, uncoachable, and I have no idea why he is where he is. I am glad to know that elsewhere in the country people get promoted to their higheest level of incompetence as well. Then I call a contact in Knoxville who tells me this lady is already telling people, internally and externally, that I am the new person there" This I find to be actually borderline unethical on her part. And although it might APPEAR that you hold all of the cards, you sorta in a "must go" situation now. I would play hardball with the relo package but NOT go for the throat if you think you can come back with an 11th hour request that becomes a new deal breaker. In short, this looks good but don't push it TOO far. Something tells me this has you coming back to Nashville in a few years to replace your boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I am glad to know that elsewhere in the country people get promoted to their higheest level of incompetence as well. This I find to be actually borderline unethical on her part. And although it might APPEAR that you hold all of the cards, you sorta in a "must go" situation now. I would play hardball with the relo package but NOT go for the throat if you think you can come back with an 11th hour request that becomes a new deal breaker. In short, this looks good but don't push it TOO far. Something tells me this has you coming back to Nashville in a few years to replace your boss. +10000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 What do you do again?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 The key, in my opinion, is to always know where you are in terms of strength relative to the other party. Lots of folks will sell their house too cheaply because they are afraid that nobody else will come along. So, out of fear, they take lowball offers, or offers that are significantly less than what they could get if they showed strength. I like to negoiate from a position of strength, scaring the other person into thinking that I can go to another option. So, they will have to accept my terms or nothing. If I dont get what I think is fair, I wont ever take a deal out of fear of nothing ever coming along later. Exactly. There are few things more comforting than being the person who doesn't need the deal to go down. They try to play the "give a little, get a little" game and you just play the "get a little" version. The times in my life that I've actually been in that position, where I was 100% content walking away and they really wanted to commit, I've always milked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 This I find to be actually borderline unethical on her part. And although it might APPEAR that you hold all of the cards, you sorta in a "must go" situation now. I would play hardball with the relo package but NOT go for the throat if you think you can come back with an 11th hour request that becomes a new deal breaker. In short, this looks good but don't push it TOO far. Something tells me this has you coming back to Nashville in a few years to replace your boss. I dont know if its unethical but it is definitely unprofessional. The problem is that the last year or so, they had a person in that role who really screwed the pooch. Now they are desperate to show that they have a competant person back in place. I think desperate is the key word. This market will need alot of work and they need me, or somebody like me, to fix it. That said, if they dont make me the right offer, screw them. I wont take it. I am not in a must go situation. Nobody can force me to go there, I dont care what she has been telling folks up there. If they tried to force my hand, I would quit and get a job with our leading competitor by the end of the day. And they know that too. They asked me if I would be interested, and I told them essentially what it will take. Lets see what they come up with. If its not good enough, we negoiate some more. If they cant meet my demands, I stay put. Pretty simple to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controller Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Spain, nice job with the negotiations so far. One thought I had is something I wish I could have done on several occassions but just couldn't quite pull off. If I had, I'd be sitting pretty today. And that is - is there any way you could rent out your current house for enough to cover the holding costs (mortgage, taxes, etc) ??? If you can, and don't mind playing landlord, you could be in great financial shape in 10 to 15 years. The time goes by whether you sell or rent, but if you can find a way to make it work, the renters will slowly but surely be paying off the principal on your mortgage; while you gain from any market appreciation over the years. Then, let wifey pick out a nice home in Knoxville and start the process all over again. If, in the future, you get transferred back, you can repeat this process. Or at least, you will have some nice options. Just my $0.02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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