delusions of grandeur Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Roddy about to be on NFLN after the break to talk about this, I assume. You know this should be good, but please Roddy, don't go putting your foot in your mouth like you always do.. ETA: Roddy actually stuck up for them, saying that the game happens so fast, that he doubted that any bounties made guys go after him harder than they would anyway... Also expressed his sympathy of how hard it should be for Saitns to not have their head coach this year. Suprisingly very classy Roddy Edited March 21, 2012 by delusions of granduer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 It's one thing if the Saints got busted on their own, but Shockey turned them in because he's a bitter b***h. I'd like to see him play again just so I could see him get blown up on the field again by a defensive player from any team. There's always Tonya Harding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 It's one thing if the Saints got busted on their own, but Shockey turned them in because he's a bitter b***h. I'd like to see him play again just so I could see him get blown up on the field again by a defensive player from any team. So the fan doesn't fall far from the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 It's one thing if the Saints got busted on their own, but Shockey turned them in because he's a bitter b***h. I'd like to see him play again just so I could see him get blown up on the field again by a defensive player from any team. I think we need to know the context of how, when, why he informed the NFL of this happening. If he was one of the initial complaintants while he was still on the team and the NFL told them to cut it out (not sure if the dates match up, but if), then it's a whole lot more understandable than him doing it later when he's gone to a division rival and possibly about to retire... However, is it possible that he got cheapshotted himself when the Panthers played the Saints, and got pissed about guys aiming to possibly end his career? Lots of what if's that I'm going to reserve judgement on before labeling him a snitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I do agree here. I do think though that there is a difference between making a statement and obliterating a team. If you're going to suspend Payton for the season, fine, do it with pay and/or at least let him work through training camp so that the Saints will at least have a chance to field a competitive team this year. While I agree the penalties should have been harsh, they are doing MUCH more than punishing the guilty parties here. What am I missing here?? Payton can't draft or work through training camp so the Saints have NO CHANCE AT BEING COMPETITIVE THIS YEAR? Seriously? I think you guys are giving him way too much credit. And if I'm wrong and you're correct, it sure does'nt say crap for the Saints organization that they can't be competitive b/c their coach is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 be careful being a fan of a dirty team that would rather play victim than be accountable doesn't start rubbing off on you. How's the weather up there? There's always Tonya Harding. So the fan doesn't fall far from the team. Oh please give me a break. Honestly I would rather see him get blackballed and not play again. It's not about the fact that he turned them in, it's why. I used to like him as a player & defended him on several occasions here on the boards. He was a big fan favorite as well and a lot of Saints fans were sad to see him go, but if this is in fact true then he deserves the fans ire because he's a loser who ultimately only thinks of himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 What am I missing here?? Payton can't draft or work through training camp so the Saints have NO CHANCE AT BEING COMPETITIVE THIS YEAR? Seriously? I think you guys are giving him way too much credit. And if I'm wrong and you're correct, it sure does'nt say crap for the Saints organization that they can't be competitive b/c their coach is gone. Remember, this is only the beginning. Goodell hasn't gotten to the players yet & if the organizational penalties are this harsh then I expect no less for the players. Actually I should be expecting worse considering how far beyond what i thought the org punishments would be. I think we need to know the context of how, when, why he informed the NFL of this happening. If he was one of the initial complaintants while he was still on the team and the NFL told them to cut it out (not sure if the dates match up, but if), then it's a whole lot more understandable than him doing it later when he's gone to a division rival and possibly about to retire... However, is it possible that he got cheapshotted himself when the Panthers played the Saints, and got pissed about guys aiming to possibly end his career? Lots of what if's that I'm going to reserve judgement on before labeling him a snitch. Come on, now you're making assumptions that the Saints may have tried to take Shockey out... The league said that new information came out at the beginning of the 2011 season. that would coincide with Shockey getting cut from the Saints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Come on, now you're making assumptions that the Saints may have tried to take Shockey out... The league said that new information came out at the beginning of the 2011 season. that would coincide with Shockey getting cut from the Saints. Quite the contrary... I'm simply throwing out a few contingencies and reserving judgement until hearing his side of the story... My initial reaction was actually that it was a snitchy thing to do, but I'm going to let the facts come out first before gonig firing at him. Didn't you want all the facts to come out for the Saints before we judged them? Same thing here, I need to know some context besides just a tweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Quite the contrary... I'm simply throwing out a few contingencies and reserving judgement until hearing his side of the story... My initial reaction was actually that it was a snitchy thing to do, but I'm going to let the facts come out first before gonig firing at him. Didn't you want all the facts to come out for the Saints before we judged them? Same thing here, I need to know some context besides just a tweet. That's why i said in my last post "if in fact he did." Edited March 21, 2012 by rajncajn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I think that some of you guys are getting sidetracked about what happened in the past. The NFL, without question, had to make a statement that bounties would not be tolerated. And that it did. I'm at a loss as to why the league should have let what Lyle f'n Alzado did factor into the punishment. It doesn't. But since these ex players continue to talk about this and act outraged and people listen to them and think it matters they'll keep bringing it up. Its been beaten to death but they were warned, said they would stop, and didn't. Plus it wasn't just bounties, but bounties to injure and with the coaching staff heavily involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm not going to get into a pissing match about this, but this is a sport with unguaranteed contracts. Career ending injury and that's it you are out of football for good. That is beyond the pale if someone is trying to make an extra $5k by costing someone else a mid 6 figure salary for a couple of years. Anyone's knowledge of that puts them in a dilemma: keep quiet and become an accessory to messing up another person's livelihood or coming clean and help putting the stop to a reprehensible practice. And if Williams is bouncing around from team to team doing this, then you cannot 'police it in house.' Screw that. Whoever 'snitched' did the right thing. It is a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papajohn Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 And isn't that really the problem? Whether or not we want to admit it, rajn is right, this is obviously a league-wide problem or there would be no reason to end the Saints 2012 season before it even starts. This action seems to indicate the practice was commonplace and someone had to be sacrificed to get it to stop. And I don't have any problems with sacrificing the team that actually got caught! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 More info is coming out: As recently as this year, Payton said he was entirely unaware of the bounties — "a claim contradicted by others," the league said. And according to the investigation, Payton received an email before the Saints' first game in 2011 that read, "PS Greg Williams put me down for $5000 on Rogers (sic)." When Payton was shown that email by NFL investigators, he acknowledged it referred to a bounty on Rodgers, whose Packers beat the Saints in Week 1. from the press release on NFL.com (where the above is #10) http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d827c15b2/article/nfl-announces-management-discipline-in-saints-bounty-matter?module=HP11_hot_topics "7. Assistant Head Coach/Defense Joe Vitt acknowledged that he was aware of the program in 2009-2011. He admitted that, when interviewed in 2010, he "fabricated the truth" to NFL investigators and denied that any pay-for-performance or bounty program existed at the Saints. 8. Coach Vitt said one of his primary roles was to monitor the activity of Coach Williams. This was based on the direction of Coach Payton, who apparently had less than full confidence in Coach Williams. Despite Coach Vitt's knowledge of the bounty program, his understanding of the terms "knock-out" and "cart-off," his witnessing Coach Williams handing out envelopes that he believed to contain cash, and his acknowledgement that the defensive meeting preceding the 2010 NFC Championship Game may have "got out of hand" with respect to Brett Favre, Coach Vitt claimed he never advised either Coach Payton or General Manager Mickey Loomis of the "pay-for-performance/bounty" program." This is why Coach Vitt is being punished. I still haven't read the whole thing and I suggest that anybody who care reads it and gives it some thought. More than listening to Lyle Alzado or a bunch of other players telling you how "everybody does it." The NFL must feel that Payton really knew and that he he just wasn't taking care of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papajohn Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Yeah - and the NFL needs about 15K volunteers to make it happen....guess they will have to bus them in from other cities Yeah right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 It's one thing if the Saints got busted on their own, but Shockey turned them in because he's a bitter b***h. I'd like to see him play again just so I could see him get blown up on the field again by a defensive player from any team. :reportedtocommishGoodell: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 The NFL must feel that Payton really knew and that he he just wasn't taking care of it. Not only this, but remember the vicodin scandal from a couple years ago and Payton's involvement? There's also a tidbit that's been brought up about his personal relationship with a convicted felon named Michael Ornstein, who Payton was told in the past to distance himself from by NFL people. This sounds like a cumulative penalty for a pattern of behavior and a bit of a comeupance for someone who lied one too many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piles Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I commend Goodell for his handlilng of this. Bounties have absolutely no place in the game and the punishment fits the crime. I do feel bad for the fans of the Saints though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 It's one thing if the Saints got busted on their own, but Shockey turned them in because he's a bitter b***h. I'd like to see him play again just so I could see him get blown up on the field again by a defensive player from any team. So is Shockey a bitter bitch because he turned them in, or was he a bitter bitch prior to turning them in? Just making sure this isn't the stupid rhetoric about snitches get stitches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 $8 million and a year long suspension is appropriate? i'm guessing we don't know the whole story. not sure if it will ever come out or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarina Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 There was a paper trail showing how they not only ignored repeated warnings to stop but lied to the NFL about it. So now they're the example. You play with fire, sometimes you get burned. I'm not saying that other teams didn't have similar bounties going on, because I'm sure they do. But they've either stopped or have been smarter about it. Reminds me of the Pats and the videotaping. It was a pretty widely practiced thing and they were all told to stop. Whether everyone did or not and the Pats didn't, they got caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh2 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Wow, 3rd round start for New Orleans this year in the draft. Making the playoffs for the Saints maybe tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Funny that the guy allowing the bounties gets a broken tibia and torn MCL while coaching. :cuealanismorissette: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Pretty tough penalty for the organization. No historical data to support the "what if", so it had to be harsh. Agree that the loss of a coach, but no assistants will not cripple a team. The loss of 2 seconds will not cripple this team. This is not a death penalty, but a severe fine and I'm fine with it. If in fact the leaders of the franchise from a coaching side lied to the NFL and let this happen, they deserve to sit and watch. If I happen to see Payton running his mouth on Network TV on Sunday's, I will be severely disappointed in him. He just needs to go away for a year. Now...player suspensions. If these happen to be extreme, it will be brutal, and if there's proof that players accepted cash for hits, they should be suspended. Same goes for any other organization that does this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Wow, 3rd round start for New Orleans this year in the draft. Making the playoffs for the Saints maybe tough. Dude that's just ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Dude that's just ridiculous Maybe not. Losing Nicks, uncertainty about Brees, no HC, potential suspensions on defense, the Rise of the Panthers and Falcons within the division. The Niners, Packers, Lions, Bears, Eagles, and Giants could easily get in above them. Prior to the suspensions it's no given that the Saints take the south over the Falcons. I think they're playing for a wild card spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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