CaptainHook Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Other than personal records, what has he accomplished? The f_cking goober never beat Florida, didn't win the Heisman, win a major bowl game or make the AFC Championship game. The guy's a well skilled loser. F_ck'em. 665860[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 665864[/snapback] Hey Captain, this is my first interaction with you. I'm bent right now but I'm a loose cannon. The rolleyes are a weak rebutle, but then again the guy's a real goober. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 (edited) Hey Captain, this is my first interaction with you. I'm bent right now but I'm a loose cannon. The rolleyes are a weak rebutle, but then again the guy's a real goober. 665872[/snapback] Goober? Yep. Helluva player? Definitely. What the heck are you bent about? Loose cannon, eh? Doesn't sound too dangerous. After all, it's just an internet message board. Edited January 22, 2005 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Goober? Yep. Helluva player? Definitely. What the heck are you bent about?Loose cannon, eh? Doesn't sound too dangerous. After all, it's just an internet message board. 665873[/snapback] He's a helluva player. No one can argue with that. I'm bent from drinking too many beers. The loose cannon comment comes from the fact that normally I would praise Peyton for being the fine fantasy player that he is. But I'm bent and speaking the truth. The guy's a flat out looser. Name one thing that he's accomplished that's not an individual accomplishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 (edited) He's a helluva player. No one can argue with that. I'm bent from drinking too many beers. The loose cannon comment comes from the fact that normally I would praise Peyton for being the fine fantasy player that he is. But I'm bent and speaking the truth. The guy's a flat out looser. Name one thing that he's accomplished that's not an individual accomplishment. 665883[/snapback] Jumpin, you make an interesting point. However, is Peyton Manning also responsible for the defense and special teams? He is a student of the game, and takes control of those things that he can take control of. It's a toss up between PManning and LT2 for me. Edited January 22, 2005 by rhino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 (edited) He's a helluva player. No one can argue with that. I'm bent from drinking too many beers. The loose cannon comment comes from the fact that normally I would praise Peyton for being the fine fantasy player that he is. But I'm bent and speaking the truth. The guy's a flat out looser. Name one thing that he's accomplished that's not an individual accomplishment. 665883[/snapback] 1994 Gator Bowl win 1995 Citrus Bowl win 1996 Citrus Bowl win SEC Title 1997 AFC East Champ 1999 AFC South Champ 2003 AFC South Champ 2004 49 TD's passing (NFL single season record) is not an individual accomplishment. Helped turn Indy Colts from perennial doormat to a top team. The Colts had NEVER won more than 9 games since moving from Baltimore. Since drafting Manning, the Colts have won 10 or more games in five of Manning's seven years. Edited January 22, 2005 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 1994 Gator Bowl win1995 Citrus Bowl win 1996 Citrus Bowl win SEC Title 1997 AFC East Champ 1999 AFC South Champ 2003 AFC South Champ 2004 49 TD's passing (NFL single season record) is not an individual accomplishment. Helped turn Indy Colts from perennial doormat to a top team. The Colts had never won more than 9 games since moving from Baltimore. The Colts have won 10 or more games in five of Manning's 7 years. 665907[/snapback] I said Major Bowl win. Did he ever get to the AFC Championship game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 (edited) I said Major Bowl win. Did he ever get to the AFC Championship game? 665909[/snapback] Sorry. I thought I was arguing with someone who knew what they were talking about. Tennessee finished #2 in the country in 1995. The Colts played in the AFC Championship LAST YEAR. I'm done. Edited January 22, 2005 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 I said Major Bowl win. Did he ever get to the AFC Championship game? 665909[/snapback] I'm gonna drink a beer and go down stairs and make a sandwich. I'll be right back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 (edited) Work with me here, people. OK, so it's 2:24 west coast time so I am guessing none of you cronies are up and responding, but I'll post this anyways. So yeah, work with me here... I'm not saying this guy is the best player in the NFL, but he darn well could (and SHOULD) be. The player in question ... is Randy Moss. Let me tell you something.... I was in a fantasy league a few years back. Still in it, but that's moot. So I'm in this league, and Moss was a rookie. I had a pretty decent team, and one week I was up on my opponent, who has Moss, by 60 or so points. That sort of lead, in my league, is still pretty insurmountable. Let me tell you this... by the end of the third quarter of the MNF game (between Green Bay and Minnesota... at Lambeau), I had uttered the words "no EFFIN' way" about 20 times. Thing is, I didn't say "effin'". Moss literally put up 65 points by himself. Our scoring system gives you graduated points for longer TDs and bonuses for going over 100 yards, blah blah blah. Well, Moss had like 180 yards and 3 long TDs and I ended up losing by a few points that week after I thought I had it in the bag. He was, as a rookie, toying with the very solid Green Bay secondary. Sharper at his best, some decent corners, blah blah blah. Culpepper would literally just toss the ball up, and Randy would figure out a way to grab it and run like an EFFIN' gazelle for 40 yards for the TD. I was mesmerized. Bottom line, if the guy could get his afro'ed head on straight, he could dominate every single game, despite double coverage, despite getting bigger, stronger and faster corners and safeties. You see flashes of the guy's dominance, but seriously, it really looks like he doesn't give a flying duck. d = f .... The guy should average 140 yards and 2 TDs a game. Easy. Someone tell me I'm wrong. Please. So is he the best player in the league? OK maybe not, but he should be. Edited January 22, 2005 by darin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizards Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Fantasy wise--Manning takes it all.... Important and key to a team and the value added as a player---pound for pound--ounce for ounce nobody brings more to the table than Hines Ward...blocker, receiver and do all player...the consumate pro and I do not like the Steelers all that much......love the way Ward plays and when you need a first down bet on Ward to get it...JMHO but Ward gets my #1 WR position if I owned a team (for real) and I will get more bang for my buck with him than anyone IMO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Vick's unpredictability makes me nervous. I've asked this before ... What causes the sporadic games where he throws for less than 120, runs for less than 40, and turns the ball over 3 or more times -- only to bounce back the next week and play like a god? Doesn't seem tied to the opponent or the weather ... See this year's two game swing vs KC and Denver for example ... Other than that, he could very well be from Krypton. 665611[/snapback] He believes he has to do everything himself since his WRs aren't stepping up, so sometimes he turns the ball over 2 or 3 times in a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Work with me here, people. OK, so it's 2:24 west coast time so I am guessing none of you cronies are up and responding, but I'll post this anyways. So yeah, work with me here... I'm not saying this guy is the best player in the NFL, but he darn well could (and SHOULD) be. The player in question ... is Randy Moss. Let me tell you something.... I was in a fantasy league a few years back. Still in it, but that's moot. So I'm in this league, and Moss was a rookie. I had a pretty decent team, and one week I was up on my opponent, who has Moss, by 60 or so points. That sort of lead, in my league, is still pretty insurmountable. Let me tell you this... by the end of the third quarter of the MNF game (between Green Bay and Minnesota... at Lambeau), I had uttered the words "no EFFIN' way" about 20 times. Thing is, I didn't say "effin'". Moss literally put up 65 points by himself. Our scoring system gives you graduated points for longer TDs and bonuses for going over 100 yards, blah blah blah. Well, Moss had like 180 yards and 3 long TDs and I ended up losing by a few points that week after I thought I had it in the bag. He was, as a rookie, toying with the very solid Green Bay secondary. Sharper at his best, some decent corners, blah blah blah. Culpepper would literally just toss the ball up, and Randy would figure out a way to grab it and run like an EFFIN' gazelle for 40 yards for the TD. I was mesmerized. Bottom line, if the guy could get his afro'ed head on straight, he could dominate every single game, despite double coverage, despite getting bigger, stronger and faster corners and safeties. You see flashes of the guy's dominance, but seriously, it really looks like he doesn't give a flying duck. d = f .... The guy should average 140 yards and 2 TDs a game. Easy. Someone tell me I'm wrong. Please. So is he the best player in the league? OK maybe not, but he should be. 665964[/snapback] Very good argument. And you are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 (edited) As far as best player goes, it's definitely arguable between many players. I base my choice on the impact the player would have on their team should they go down. That, to me, proves how much they mean to their teams. My vote would go to Vick. He's obviously not going to have the big numbers, but the guy is a flat out winner. He makes his team better; we all saw what happened last year after he went down. He also impacts what OTHER teams are going to do to try to stop him. As Vick goes, the Falcons go. You think about other good players, and you could argue their teams would still function fine without them. LT: We saw what Chatman could do when he was dinged up. The running game in San Diego was fine. Priest: Same thing, except Blaylock and Johnson carried the load. Heck, you could argue the Chiefs were better, because their second half of the season record was way better once Priest went down. Manning: Don't know yet, because he always plays, but we know his history in big games. Ray Lewis: That defense is so good that you could argue they would still be a quality defense without him. Moss: When he went down, the offense did suffer, but other receivers stepped up. Vick is the only one that I can think of where his loss means the team is DONE. That to me makes him the best player in the NFL right now. Edited January 22, 2005 by Chief Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 As far as best player goes, it's definitely arguable between many players. I base my choice on the impact the player would have on their team should they go down. That, to me, proves how much they mean to their teams. My vote would go to Vick. He's obviously not going to have the big numbers, but the guy is a flat out winner. He makes his team better; we all saw what happened last year after he went down. He also impacts what OTHER teams are going to do to try to stop him. As Vick goes, the Falcons go. You think about other good players, and you could argue their teams would still function fine without them. LT: We saw what Chatman could do when he was dinged up. The running game in San Diego was fine. Priest: Same thing, except Blaylock and Johnson carried the load. Heck, you could argue the Chiefs were better, because their second half of the season record was way better once Priest went down. Manning: Don't know yet, because he always plays, but we know his history in big games. Ray Lewis: That defense is so good that you could argue they would still be a quality defense without him. Moss: When he went down, the offense did suffer, but other receivers stepped up. Vick is the only one that I can think of where his loss means the team is DONE. That to me makes him the best player in the NFL right now. 665974[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Jumpin, you make an interesting point. However, is Peyton Manning also responsible for the defense and special teams? He is a student of the game, and takes control of those things that he can take control of. 665901[/snapback] He was responsible for an offense that did not score any points against NE's "weak secondary." Vanderjerk scored 3 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 He's a helluva player. No one can argue with that. I'm bent from drinking too many beers. The loose cannon comment comes from the fact that normally I would praise Peyton for being the fine fantasy player that he is. But I'm bent and speaking the truth. 665883[/snapback] Did you know that alcohol impairs one's judgement? The guy's a flat out looser. Name one thing that he's accomplished that's not an individual accomplishment. How about leading a team with no defense to the playoffs five times in seven years? How many teams with poor defenses make it to the playoffs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Pimp Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Vick is the only one that I can think of where his loss means the team is DONE. That to me makes him the best player in the NFL right now. 665974[/snapback] I do not like the Falcons, I do not like Michael Vick, but CD has it exactly right here. Without Vick, the Falcons are a 4-5 win/season team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Soup Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 When I think of best player in the NFL, I tend to gravitate towards the positions I think are more difficult. Namely QB and WR on offense, and defensively I think more towards the secondary. Anyway, with all of that said, I'd probably say Manning. He plays in the most difficult position, in my opinion, and just had one of the most prolific seasons as a QB. I'd also like to note, Chief does bring up a valid point about what Vick means to his team. I don't particularly care for Vick (probably blame that on the media hype, not him as an individual) but without him, the Falcons are nothing. But.....I think that is what MVP awards are for, not best player. So, I'm going with Manning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Sorry. I thought I was arguing with someone who knew what they were talking about. Tennessee finished #2 in the country in 1995. The Colts played in the AFC Championship LAST YEAR. I'm done. 665911[/snapback] It was a late night and was wasn't previewing my posts. I put too many "o"s into loser and meant to say win the AFC Championship game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Did you know that alcohol impairs one's judgement?How about leading a team with no defense to the playoffs five times in seven years? How many teams with poor defenses make it to the playoffs? 665998[/snapback] There defense has gotten better but it will never be great due to the fact that they use so much of there cap room up on Manning. A guy that could never beat Florida and will never beat New England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 There defense has gotten better but it will never be great due to the fact that they use so much of there cap room up on Manning. 666238[/snapback] Obviously, you've never seen Manning's cap breakdown. It was just over $9 million this year. They made it to the AFC Championship Game last year when it was $14 million due to the franchise tag. IIRC, it gets up to about $15 million about three or four years down the road, which is what elite QBs will likely go for at that point. BTW, Vick is currently the highest-paid player in the NFL and is about 1/3 the passer that Manning is. A guy that could never beat Florida and will never beat New England. Manning has beaten the Patriots on multiple occasions. Do your homework next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Obviously, you've never seen Manning's cap breakdown. It was just over $9 million this year. They made it to the AFC Championship Game last year when it was $14 million due to the franchise tag. IIRC, it gets up to about $15 million about three or four years down the road, which is what elite QBs will likely go for at that point. BTW, Vick is currently the highest-paid player in the NFL and is about 1/3 the passer that Manning is. Manning has beaten the Patriots on multiple occasions. Do your homework next time. 666253[/snapback] He's never beaten them in a playoff game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 He's never beaten them in a playoff game. 666260[/snapback] You said nothing about the playoffs in your previous post. BTW, nobody has beaten NE in the playoffs since 2001. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Obviously, you've never seen Manning's cap breakdown. It was just over $9 million this year. They made it to the AFC Championship Game last year when it was $14 million due to the franchise tag. IIRC, it gets up to about $15 million about three or four years down the road, which is what elite QBs will likely go for at that point. BTW, Vick is currently the highest-paid player in the NFL and is about 1/3 the passer that Manning is. Manning has beaten the Patriots on multiple occasions. Do your homework next time. 666253[/snapback] What's the cap breakdown for the other weapons on offense that Manning obviously needs to help make him a better QB. How many of Vick's WR's or RB's have ever made the probowl? Crumpler counts as 1 but he's a TE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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